Observations from Countdown and practice

Oh yes. I believe Cooper will get at least 30 minutes per game against tougher teams. I believe Gillis gets most of his minutes at the 4 and Brown will get 15-25 minutes at the 5. I've seen how freshmen big men get into foul trouble and Brown is not a big drop off behind Malauch. As for Tyrese, Caleb and Sion, I see Tyrese getting 30 minutes for his defense and point-guard skills. Caleb and possibly Sion will give him some rest. I'm not as positive as Sky on Caleb having a great season. I could see Sion and Evans getting some of his minutes if he doesn't improve over last season. What position do you see Kon getting his minutes at if Cooper plays the 3. I guess he would play the 4.

GoDuke!
Yeah, I mentioned that a few months back and from what I've seen of him recently, Kon as an undersized stretch 4 in certain matchups could be worth experimenting with. Would love to find a way to integrate his offense w/o killing us on D.
 
There's my contrarian!

With a group of 10 guys who are this good, for any one of them to be clearly the best player in three straight scrimmages would be absolutely unreal. Especially when it's not the projected #1 NBA pick! Who was the best player in CTC 1? Not sure. In CTC 2? Caleb Foster.

Givony had to have been exaggerating a bit. But it still means that we will probably see Kon as an unstoppable scorer in a lot of games this season.
 
Yeah, I mentioned that a few months back and from what I've seen of him recently, Kon as an undersized stretch 4 in certain matchups could be worth experimenting with. Would love to find a way to integrate his offense w/o killing us on D.
This idea has a lot of merit and plays to Kon's strengths. My only worry is Jon likes to switch on defense, which negates where guys start on D.
 
This idea has a lot of merit and plays to Kon's strengths. My only worry is Jon likes to switch on defense, which negates where guys start on D.
Clearly Jon is playing some 4-D chess here. Lets give UK and AZ some highlights of Kon being relentlessly driven on, so they design their entire game plan around it. Then when the games finally roll around, Kon just funnels drives to Man-Man and to a weakside Cooper so they can set single game block records...
 
Clearly Jon is playing some 4-D chess here. Lets give UK and AZ some highlights of Kon being relentlessly driven on, so they design their entire game plan around it. Then when the games finally roll around, Kon just funnels drives to Man-Man and to a weakside Cooper so they can set single game block records...
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McCain played 31 min/gm and couldn't guard the chair I am currently sitting in. Kon has him by 4 inches and 20lbs. Kon will be fine.
DB, you and I have been battling the Kon doubters for months. Back in June and through the summer they were arguing he was a deep bench guy. Then they begrudgingly put him in the rotation.

Now they are acknowledging he will start but claim he'll be a bad defender.

They are coming around... 🏝️😎
 
I've mentioned this before. Kon and Cooper at the 3 and 4 can be interchangeable on defense depending on the matchup.

UNC is a great example. At the 3 they will probably start the lightning quick 6-5 Ian Jackson. At the 4 they may start the much slower, less athletic, but lights out shooter 6-8 Cade Tyson.

That may be a game where you put Cooper on Jackson and Kon on Tyson. Doesn't affect anything we do on offense.
 
Who was the best player in CTC 1? Not sure. In CTC 2? Caleb Foster.
CTC 1 - Sion James: 6 points, 4 steals, and hounded Caleb Foster into an 0-6 nightmare.

CTC 2 - Caleb Foster: 14 points, 3 assists, and had a field day because he was not longer being guarded by Sion James. Meanwhile, Tyreese Proctor, who was now being guarded by Sion, went just 1-6 from the field.
I would take back Roach for either of our guards.
Jon Scheyer had this choice and he picked Caleb and Tyreese.
 
Some of us have challenged Jason on his 7-man rotation, so maybe it's a good time to share that I've listened to all the other Duke wannabe podcasts out there and none compare to DBR.

Jason and Donald do a great job of keeping it fun and informative. Thanks for what you guys do!
 
I’ll buy the skepticism of Foster/Proctor improvement but I’m more skeptical of Roach playing PG. If you want more reliable but still inconsistent scoring, sure Roach has a track record there. Hopefully offense isn’t a huge issue with this team…

I agree, I really liked Roach a lot and wish him well, but not a great distributor.

Yes, Coach Scheyer got the backcourt that he wanted. However, even Coach K made recruiting mistakes.

All I know is that we looked like dog poo at the end of the regular season in 2022, Roach got the keys to the Duke car, and we got to the Final Four.

It's a moot point and a late point. I support the team we have and I am very excited about seeing them play.

Roach's assist numbers were never stellar, but he is an unbelievably good three point shooter and was a vet who bled Duke blue. I would love it if he was in our starting lineup, as an attacking lead guard, whatever. I guess it's a silly thing to bring up now, but IMHO the biggest question mark for the team is the backcourt.

It's clear that Tyrese sees himself as a point guard and Roach does too. Tyrese's ceiling is higher, but Roach's floor is higher. And at this point, Roach's floor is pretty damn high. I love both guys, but love Roach more. I hope Tyrese becomes the player that Coach projects him as, and I hope Roach has an awesome super senior season as a Bear.
 
Yes, Coach Scheyer got the backcourt that he wanted. However, even Coach K made recruiting mistakes.

All I know is that we looked like dog poo at the end of the regular season in 2022, Roach got the keys to the Duke car, and we got to the Final Four.

It's a moot point and a late point. I support the team we have and I am very excited about seeing them play.

Roach's assist numbers were never stellar, but he is an unbelievably good three point shooter and was a vet who bled Duke blue. I would love it if he was in our starting lineup, as an attacking lead guard, whatever. I guess it's a silly thing to bring up now, but IMHO the biggest question mark for the team is the backcourt.

It's clear that Tyrese sees himself as a point guard and Roach does too. Tyrese's ceiling is higher, but Roach's floor is higher. And at this point, Roach's floor is pretty damn high. I love both guys, but love Roach more. I hope Tyrese becomes the player that Coach projects him as, and I hope Roach has an awesome super senior season as a Bear.
One thing about Roach's stats are that his shooting was stellar only for a portion of his career at Duke. He shot well during the second half of his junior year and his senior year. The first 2.5 years, he was a so-so shooter. That stretch of good shooting coincides with when Roach was moved off the ball in favor of Proctor providing more of the primary point guard responsibilities. So one could make a case that Proctor moving on the ball made Roach a better shooter. Compare Roach's JR year shooting splits to Proctor's SO season and Proctor was very similar if not slightly better.

Roach, '22-23: .427/.343/.780, eFG% .489, TS% .524, PER 14.4
Proctor, '23-24: .423/.352/.755, eFG% .525, TS% 545, PER 14.4

Combine the shooting with Tyrese being a far superior defender and much better at generating assists for teammates and you can make a solid case that Proctor is the better overall player now and has a lot more upside as an under-age JR. Remember that Proctor and Foster are very similar in age with both being a couple years younger than Roach.
 
CTC 1 - Sion James: 6 points, 4 steals, and hounded Caleb Foster into an 0-6 nightmare.

CTC 2 - Caleb Foster: 14 points, 3 assists, and had a field day because he was not longer being guarded by Sion James. Meanwhile, Tyreese Proctor, who was now being guarded by Sion, went just 1-6 from the field.
Yep. People have seemed shocked at the idea that Sion's defense could be as good as Mason's. But the coaching staff thinks so, and now we have first hand evidence.

That's not to say that Mason isn't awesome on that side of the ball. The flip side is that Kon went 3-5 for 8 points in CTC 1, but only got one shot off (that he missed) in CTC 2 when Gillis was guarding him.

But Sion brings a lot more than Gillis on the offense side.
 
Yes, Coach Scheyer got the backcourt that he wanted. However, even Coach K made recruiting mistakes.

All I know is that we looked like dog poo at the end of the regular season in 2022, Roach got the keys to the Duke car, and we got to the Final Four.

It's a moot point and a late point. I support the team we have and I am very excited about seeing them play.

Roach's assist numbers were never stellar, but he is an unbelievably good three point shooter and was a vet who bled Duke blue. I would love it if he was in our starting lineup, as an attacking lead guard, whatever. I guess it's a silly thing to bring up now, but IMHO the biggest question mark for the team is the backcourt.

It's clear that Tyrese sees himself as a point guard and Roach does too. Tyrese's ceiling is higher, but Roach's floor is higher. And at this point, Roach's floor is pretty damn high. I love both guys, but love Roach more. I hope Tyrese becomes the player that Coach projects him as, and I hope Roach has an awesome super senior season as a Bear.
I miss Jeremy as well, but you ignore his faults. Jeremy was only an excellent three-point shooter last season. Until then, he was a worse three-point shooter than Tyrese. Tyrese has always been better at both distributing and protecting the ball. Jeremy was a good defender his senior season but still not as good as Tyrese.

I would have loved Jeremy on this team but I think this team has enough players that can fill his role, albeit without the tenure and the closeness that it engenders. If Tyrese wasn't on this team, I think Duke would have a tougher time filling his role. Sion and Caleb would get a crack at it but I think both would be steps down.
 
I still don't think we know much about how the team will play against an opponent. That said, from what we saw at CTC and what we are hearing in addition, it seems like we are in the familiar position where our locks to start will be heavily relied on, and the remainder of the roster will evolve over the season and be used situationally.

We are hearing our defense is ahead of our offense; maybe the starters can cover for Kon on defense sufficiently that his potential as a shot-maker/creator to get our offense going from opening tip can justify starting. Maybe Flagg is still learning how to be assertive on offense at this level, or Jon is still learning how to use him, and we need some additional shot-creation for the time being; maybe Flagg's play shifts later on such that parking Gillis in the corner, which seemed to be his offensive role at CTC, is productive enough that his defense pushes him past Kon into more playing time. Maybe Jon wants a Mighty Ducks 2-style Bash Brother change of pace substitution at the 12 min mark and brings both Sion and Gillis on to stymie opposition. Maybe we end up having to play smaller than expected and Gillis sees more time as a smallball 4 with Flagg or Brown.

As useful as observations from early season practices can be, and I am grateful to Jason and others for sharing them, we won't really know what this team will look like until they play a few games. As Donald is fond of reminding the podcast listeners , in the words of that sage of our times, Mike Tyson: everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. This team offers numerous potential adjustments, though, so I am excited to see how we deploy tactically throughout a game.

Re Roach's performance on the 22-23 final four team, Tennessee would like a word (ugh). And if we are talking instead of 21-22, I agree with the above that Roach wasn't a difference down the stretch as a point guard/distributor, i.e. driving the Duke car, but as a scoring guard/shotmaker who scored in clutch spots in the tournament. Postseason Roach was a real thing, but IIRC (first time for everything!), that team often distributed by committee with Wendell, Paolo, and Jeremy all taking a hand in moving the team through its offense. We may see something similar this year, but I think that too much of that could be seen as an unwelcome development, particularly as it relates to Tyrese's play.
 
Yep. People have seemed shocked at the idea that Sion's defense could be as good as Mason's. But the coaching staff thinks so, and now we have first hand evidence.

That's not to say that Mason isn't awesome on that side of the ball. The flip side is that Kon went 3-5 for 8 points in CTC 1, but only got one shot off (that he missed) in CTC 2 when Gillis was guarding him.

But Sion brings a lot more than Gillis on the offense side.
Sion definitely brings more playmaking than Gillis. But Gillis shot 47% from 3 last season on decent volume. So a lot of it depends on need.

If Duke needs a knockdown shooter to spread the floor and give Cooper and Caleb more space to operate, a true 3&D guy, then Mason might be one of the best in the country. If Jon wants more playmaking, then, yes, Kon, Sion and Isaiah would all be better choices.
 
But, but, but... I was being told (not by you) in earlier discussions that this was the year we would have 9 guys averaging more than 12 minutes per game (even though that happened only ONCE during K's tenure and it also coincided with a significant injury of the team's best player).

Anyways, I look forward to that fantasy for next season.
Not to provoke an argument (Moi?), but I still expect to have nine or ten players with 300+ minutes for the year. That's what I call "meaningful minutes." Now I understand that the coaches are working primarily with a "rotation" of seven, which is perfectly understandable -- but that's now. Duke basketball is extremely intense, even physical, and there is wear and tear on the players, so I expect some down time or restricted minutes to occur, creating multiple opportunities for others. Also, it's a long season, and there will be migration of roles across multiple players.

Last year there were only seven players with 300+ mins.; in 2023 there were nine, and in 2022 there were eight. This year, three of the transfers will play a lot, plus the five likely starters, plus Patrick, plus either Evans or Harris to make as many as ten.

It would be great if there were no injuries, but when has that ever happened at Duke?
 
I see those numbers and come to the opposite conclusion. In non-competitive games, I think your 8th man is getting more minutes than usual. I would expect them to log fewer minutes than their average in competitive games.

To Jason's point, if that is their average, I would guess they played closer to 5 minutes per game in the competitive ones.
I'm not going to check all the teams, but for the last 4 games of the season/tourney, UConn's 8th man averaged 11.5mpg.
 
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