2024 Presidential Election -- new thread for the final week

[JasonEvans]

Folks, we will be shutting this thread down in the next 24 hours, perhaps sooner.

If folks want to post a parting thought, now would be the time to do so.

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Sigh, here is that term "moderate" again. Let's be real clear, Nikki Haley is most definitely NOT a moderate. She's not radical as Trump is in terms of foreign policy and views on NATO, but she's pretty far right otherwise. And she has publicly acknowledged that climate change is man-made. Though she has opposed every proposed measure to combat it.

She's called herself a "union buster". She has said Florida's "don't say gay" law doesn't go far enough. She has supported the initiatives of the Moms for Liberty folks. She has said she wants to raise taxes on green energy companies. She has said should sign a 6 week abortion ban if voters voted for it. When she was in the state legislature she voted to end abortion coverage for rape and incest victims in the state health plan for employees. She's made unsupported claims linking the increase in suicidal thoughts among girls with a grossly exaggerated issue of trans athletes. Remember her comment a while back that the civil wars based on "states rights" rather than slavery as a part of her assertion that the United States has "never been a racist country". Sure she did walk that back, but still gives you a clear idea of her ingrained worldview. I'm not here to debate that these stances are right or wrong. But these are the things she believes and it's hard to argue these are moderate.

I think the ONLY reason that people tend to refer to Nikki as a moderate is because she has said that Trump is wrong that the 2020 election was stolen. That's it. That's the bar. And this combined with the fact that she is a woman is why she lost the Republican nomination. And even her commitment to that point is subordinate to her commitment to the party.

You're making an outdated argument. You just repeat things and they become true. That's how an objectively moderate candidate like Harris gets labeled a leftwing nut job.

Haley can become anything as long as the label is repeated loudly and often.

 

[Bostondevil]

When men discuss abortion, I want to kick them all in the nuts, even the ones I agree with.

Also, when men speak for women, they always get some crucial details wrong, so I am going to gently remind you all to stop doing it.

 

[SouthernDukie]

Thanks to the mods for allowing us to talk through all the ups and downs of this past election. To me it was definitely helpful and even therapeutic.

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Folks, we will be shutting this thread down in the next 24 hours, perhaps sooner.

If folks want to post a parting thought, now would be the time to do so.

My parting thought - I'm incredibly sad and disappointed. Not in the outcome itself, but that a majority of Americans can rationalize voting for a candidate with so many character flaws and such hateful rhetoric.

I am planning to check out on news and politics for awhile, as much as my conscience will allow. At least until whatever the next Terrible Thing is that happens. My frustration with the American people will take a long time to heal.

After spending six week witnessing people being incredibly kind, thoughtful, and selfless through the storm and recovery here in Western North Carolina, all of those feeling have soured since Tuesday night. I had managed to believe we have more in common that "they" want us to think. Now I feel much more on an island, and it is quite lonely.

I suspect that the reality of the next four years wil be not as horrible as the Left has reason to believe, but I don't think it will be as grand as the Right believe either.

I'll just finish by saying we should all be reaching out to those persons and populations that are most at risk with this new administration. Let them know they are not alone and that we will defend them. The degree of existential fear these people will be experiencing is impossible to bear for many.

Hope we get to play this little game again in four years. God bless us everyone.

 

[jipops]

You're making an outdated argument. You just repeat things and they become true. That's how an objectively moderate candidate like Harris gets labeled a leftwing nut job.

Haley can become anything as long as the label is repeated loudly and often.

I'm not pulling things out of thin air here. These are views she explicitly stated and ran on.

The concern here is that we're moving the goalposts of what was actually considered moderate even just 10 years ago. Maybe it's the definition of "moderate" that has become outdated?

And yeah, the post Truth world depends on how loud and often things are shouted.

 

[PackMan97]

Thanks for keeping thread open. See yall in the 26 or 28 thread

 

[Skydog]

I'm not pulling things out of thin air here. These are views she explicitly stated and ran on.

The concern here is that we're moving the goalposts of what was actually considered moderate even just 10 years ago. Maybe it's the definition of "moderate" that has become outdated?

And yeah, the post Truth world depends on how loud and often things are shouted.

I think you misunderstood MtDevil’s post. If I’m not mistaken he wasn’t giving his views, he was stating that to the public thinking factually was “out of date.” The public is more influenced by repetition than logic/facts.

 

[dudog84]

Yes, in that it had to be legal prior to viability, but could be legal until 40 weeks as each state decides.

That is the standard under Roe.

Yes, and Harris/Walz very clearly wanted to make Roe the federal law, not susceptible to state manipulation.

 

[acdevil]

My parting thought - I'm incredibly sad and disappointed. Not in the outcome itself, but that a majority of Americans can rationalize voting for a candidate with so many character flaws and such hateful rhetoric.

I am planning to check out on news and politics for awhile, as much as my conscience will allow. At least until whatever the next Terrible Thing is that happens. My frustration with the American people will take a long time to heal.

After spending six week witnessing people being incredibly kind, thoughtful, and selfless through the storm and recovery here in Western North Carolina, all of those feeling have soured since Tuesday night. I had managed to believe we have more in common that "they" want us to think. Now I feel much more on an island, and it is quite lonely.

I suspect that the reality of the next four years wil be not as horrible as the Left has reason to believe, but I don't think it will be as grand as the Right believe either.

I'll just finish by saying we should all be reaching out to those persons and populations that are most at risk with this new administration. Let them know they are not alone and that we will defend them. The degree of existential fear these people will be experiencing is impossible to bear for many.

Hope we get to play this little game again in four years. God bless us everyone.

Well said. Agree with everything here.

The only thing I’d add is this - for some of us, the first term was catastrophically bad. Warnings were made, but many others ignored them or just don’t care. I plan on also checking out as much as possible in the coming months. But I’ll be there to delight in schadenfreude every time I see complaints from Trump voters about inflation caused by his policies, or about his new version of Operation Wetback, or literally 100s of other policies that are going to hurt the people who actually voted for him. That may sound petty, but my life was significantly impacted by events in his first term (perhaps permanently). I had hoped that this election cycle would show me the good left in America. Instead it showed me that American exceptionalism is truly dead. It showed me that hate and lying wins out with the electorate many of which choose to be ignorant of the facts.

Good luck to everyone, but I’m all out of Fs to give.

(I like this “post your final thoughts”. It’s like the Festivus airing of grievances.)

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm not pulling things out of thin air here. These are views she explicitly stated and ran on.

The concern here is that we're moving the goalposts of what was actually considered moderate even just 10 years ago. Maybe it's the definition of "moderate" that has become outdated?

And yeah, the post Truth world depends on how loud and often things are shouted.

The subsequent post was accurate - I didn't mean that she is or isn't moderate, but that politicians seem to no longer be objectively judged on such scales.

 

[AGDukesky]

My parting post is to thank all the contributors to this thread and the mods. I’m very concerned about where the country (and much of the world) is headed and this election confirmed my beliefs. I’m glad I have this community but there is a lot of mental damage out there that I cannot see getting better. I hope this thread exists in 2028.

 

[Phredd3]

Thanks to the mods for keeping it open and keeping things going. It's a tough job. Honestly, I'm going to miss it, and there is precious little rational political discussion open anywhere any more. I appreciate it here.

 

[OldPhiKap]

My final thought is to thank everyone for a great discussion.

Politically, I am an unabashed apostle for the need for a center/moderate third party. I think the only way out of our polarized politics is to make it a triangle. But now’s not the time for me to soapbox on it, as it will likely just piss off everyone. I’ll just wish everyone luck moving forward.

Peace.

 

[jipops]

I thank the mods for allowing this thread to stay open. Still haven't reconciled or figured out a definitive way to keep discussion going outside of this thread but still looking into it.

I hope we do get to a place where basic decency and character become a cornerstone of our body politic. I do think that is still possible for all walks of life and political persuasions. It's at that point I think we can collectively carry with us a genuine sense of national pride. Is that naive? I don't know... maybe. Unfortunately what came to fruition this week showed that we have continued to take some gigantic steps backwards in getting there. And that has had a profound effect on a lot of people. It's even making relationships in friends and family difficult.

I agree with Mtn Devil's comment above. I don't think we're going to see the worst fears of the Left come true, and we're not going to see the complete grand vision of the Right play out either. I think one of the best descriptions I saw was from a NY Times writer a few days ago - not a direct quote but something like this: Trump is never as bad as you think he is going to be, but he is worse in ways you would never imagine.

There is still a lot of post-mortem to cover with all of this. Some of it may even be overthinking for Democrats though. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Left over-correct on their own internal criticisms - not unlike how the Right has over-reacted to social change over the last few decades.

I hope us regular folks can look to do our part for others. As an example, my wife and I just donated to InterAct of Wake County women's shelter (it was her idea to be honest). Times could very well be difficult for certain groups of folks that now live under a heightened risk. Maybe the best we can do right now is use our anger and frustration for something positive.

 

[Bostondevil]

My parting thought - if the ACA is repealed, I fully expect my younger brother (not the one who is a Republican) to die within the next 4 years. He is in the middle of some serious health issues and any break in insurance coverage will likely lead to an interruption of his care and an interruption of his care will probably kill him. The stress he is now feeling is not helping. I have tried to reassure him that repealing the ACA isn't on Trump's agenda, but apparently it is on Mike Johnson's.

If we do reconvene in 4 years, let's hope any Trump administration instigated changes to our healthcare system haven't killed off more than a few of us.

I know - dark. If you aren't scared of RFK Jr. being in charge of public health you should be. And remember, I started praying from Day 1 of the first Trump administration that we wouldn't have a public health crisis. God doesn't listen to me. I have felt like Cassandra for nearly 10 years.

 

[CDu]

Yes, in that it had to be legal prior to viability, but could be legal until 40 weeks as each state decides.

That is the standard under Roe.


They would think you don't respect their opinion and beliefs and that your wisdoms are ridiculous.

A few are against IVF on the principal that live behind at conception, but would be more ok with procedure of embryo adoption was practiced instead of destroying unwanted embyros.

As someone who would not be a father if it weren’t for IVF, and whose embryos weren’t able to produce a second child… I will just say that there are some of your friends with apparently very little understanding of how hurtful their views are to many.

 

[FosterCoachK82]

Many thanks to all who contributed and the mods who helped keep it civil. It’s been my favorite community on the election.

 

[jipops]

I think you misunderstood MtDevil’s post. If I’m not mistaken he wasn’t giving his views, he was stating that to the public thinking factually was “out of date.” The public is more influenced by repetition than logic/facts.

No, I totally got it. His point is 100% valid AFAIC

 

[Furniture]

See ya…..