Pat Ngongba "out indefinitely," in a boot

[JasonEvans]

Let's see Amari Williams chasing Cooper around the perimeter and see how well that works for them.

Worth noting that Andrew Carr, though tall, is far from a traditional big. He is more likely to shoot a 3-pointer or a mid-range jumper than he is to take a shot in the lane.

Carr is not entirely different from Grant Nelson at Bama, another big guy (6-11) who is more comfortable away from the hoop than banging on the inside. I looked at Torvik's projections for every team in the top 20. Other than Bama, there isn't a single one that has 2 of their top 7 players standing 6-10 or taller.

The era of the dual big man is pretty much dead.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Yes, understood on KY. Andrew Carr is a good player. It will be one of the tougher frontcourts we play.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

Sigh. Another year where we're forced to play guys out of their natural position. Some of this is on the staff - we have zero legit 5s who can play that position for 25-30 minutes a game. Again.

 

[crote]

Carr is not entirely different from Grant Nelson at Bama, another big guy (6-11) who is more comfortable away from the hoop than banging on the inside. I looked at Torvik's projections for every team in the top 20. Other than Bama, there isn't a single one that has 2 of their top 7 players standing 6-10 or taller.

The era of the dual big man is pretty much dead.

I was going through ESPN's way-too-early top 25 which projects starting lineups, and other than Kentucky, Bama was the only school I noticed as starting a couple really big guys (Nelson and Clifford Omoruyi). Sounds like I didn't miss anyone.

With our without Pat, I do not expect Duke to be on the wrong side of many size mismatches this year.

 

[Bluedog]

I feel like I haven't been THAT out of the loop but apparently I am -- when and where did "man-man" come from?

 

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Sigh. Another year where we're forced to play guys out of their natural position. Some of this is on the staff - we have zero legit 5s who can play that position for 25-30 minutes a game. Again.

What are you talking about? Last year's roster was a bit off. But the prior two years the rosters were almost perfectly constructed. And we still have Maluach and Brown (who is a college 5). Which is pretty good. Particularly in this age of instant gratification where it is very hard to build depth because if someone isn't going to play a lot, rather than wait their turn, they will go elsewhere.

The season hasn't even started and I'm remembering why I stay away from most of the basketball-related threads on the Duke Basketball Report.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Sigh. Another year where we're forced to play guys out of their natural position. Some of this is on the staff - we have zero legit 5s who can play that position for 25-30 minutes a game. Again.

Maybe you haven't heard the news. We have a 7-2 guy on our roster who will very likely be one of the most physically imposing Centers in the country. Might even be the first Center drafted next year. And the dude is used to sprinting up and down the court for 30+ mpg.

His name Khaman Maluach but you can call him Man Man...

 

[SkyBrickey]

I feel like I haven't been THAT out of the loop but apparently I am -- when and where did "man-man" come from?

Nickname his teammates have given him. Comes up on the brotherhood podcast. Pretty sure Scheyer just calls him "man" during practice.

 

[azzefkram]

We should have the best defensive frontcourt in the country. The best defensive forward to enter college basketball in how many decades? A 7-2 agile guy with a 9-8 standing reach. And a first team all-ACC defender with a 7-0 wingspan. I mean, come on...

In that article I linked, Brad Brownell, with the best frontcourt in the ACC (Shef and Hall), is quoted as saying they schemed around Maliq Brown he's such a disruptive defender. That says a lot about his ability to defend the post.

So you are finally seeing the light, Man-man, Maliq, and Cooper for 5-4-3. It took you awhile to get there but thank goodness you've arrived.

I read your article and you know what says more about Maliq's ability to defend in the post. Clemson shot 67.7% from 2 in their two games against Cuse. Sheff and Hall shot 88.9% from 2 on 27 shots. Clemson's bigs shot 73.2%.

After Bennie Williams left, Cuse allowed teams to shoot 55.8% from 2. That's the same as the 355th team in all of basketball allowed last season. All of that is not on Maliq, but if he was good at defending in the post Cuse shouldn't be one of the worst teams in all of basketball at defending from 2pt range.

I am a big fan of Maliq as a player but not as a 5. I think he has the skill and talent to be a top-5 player on Duke this season. That being written, if he is playing north of 10 minutes per game at the 5, history says that is not going to be great for Duke. Maybe Jon and the staff can unlock some stuff, but nothing Maliq has done to date shows that he is anything more than a "break glass in case of emergency" 5.

 

[arnie]

So you are finally seeing the light, Man-man, Maliq, and Cooper for 5-4-3. It took you awhile to get there but thank goodness you've arrived.

I read your article and you know what says more about Maliq's ability to defend in the post. Clemson shot 67.7% from 2 in their two games against Cuse. Sheff and Hall shot 88.9% from 2 on 27 shots. Clemson's bigs shot 73.2%.

After Bennie Williams left, Cuse allowed teams to shoot 55.8% from 2. That's the same as the 355th team in all of basketball allowed last season. All of that is not on Maliq, but if he was good at defending in the post Cuse shouldn't be one of the worst teams in all of basketball at defending from 2pt range.

I am a big fan of Maliq as a player but not as a 5. I think he has the skill and talent to be a top-5 player on Duke this season. That being written, if he is playing north of 10 minutes per game at the 5, history says that is not going to be great for Duke. Maybe Jon and the staff can unlock some stuff, but nothing Maliq has done to date shows that he is anything more than a "break glass in case of emergency" 5.

I like the 3 guard lineup with 2-4s and a 5 as some have surmised. Always helps to have 6 on the floor.

 

[Dr. Maturin]

The good news is not many team play two true bigs anymore. Cooper should be able to play the 4, with Mason Gillis sliding in there when needed. That leaves Brown/Maluach to combine for 40 min at the 5, with Brown also probably getting some time at the 4. That's fine... if we don't have any additional injuries. Last year it felt like we had lots of guard depth, but then when Foster went down, Roach/Proctor/McCain had to go nearly the full 40 in March.

 

[DukieInBrasil]

I like the 3 guard lineup with 2-4s and a 5 as some have surmised. Always helps to have 6 on the floor.

i wonder how many minutes per game the refs will let us get away with that...

 

[AGDukesky]

i wonder how many minutes per game the refs will let us get away with that...

According to the haters, that would be an improvement of two “players”

 

[SkyBrickey]

That being written, if he is playing north of 10 minutes per game at the 5, history says that is not going to be great for Duke.

Azz, I'm screenshotting this post for posterity. I know you're disappointed about Pat, but this is silly. Maliq was always playing more than 10mpg at the 5. Plenty of folks have even speculated Maliq could start ahead of Khaman early in the year.

Houston had the #1 defense in the country playing a 6-7 and 6-8 frontcourt. But it's going to go badly for Duke if we play a 6-8 all-ACC first team defender with a 7-foot wingspan for more than 10 minutes at the 5? Really??

I'm confident Scheyer didn't share this opinion when he made Maliq our #1 target big transfer knowing that Pat may or may not be recovered and ready to play this season. Jon assembled EXACTLY the team he wanted.

 

[azzefkram]

Azz, I'm screenshotting this post for posterity. I know you're disappointed about Pat, but this is silly. Maliq was always playing more than 10mpg at the 5. Plenty of folks have even speculated Maliq could start ahead of Khaman early in the year.

Houston had the #1 defense in the country playing a 6-7 and 6-8 frontcourt. But it's going to go badly for Duke if we play a 6-8 all-ACC first team defender with a 7-foot wingspan for more than 10 minutes at the 5? Really??

I'm confident Scheyer didn't share this opinion when he made Maliq our #1 target big transfer knowing that Pat may or may not be recovered and ready to play this season. Jon assembled EXACTLY the team he wanted.

Did I miss Maliq playing for Houston last season? If he did, I will have to reassess my opinion of him. Maliq playing the 5 on a team that was 2nd in the country in block rate, 3rd in the country in steal rate, 3rd in the country in 2P% allowed, and 11th in the country in 3P% allowed is a compelling argument that he can play the 5. Give me a sec to check this out. Wait a minute! Maliq didn't play for Houston. He played for Syracuse. You're familiar with Syracuse. That's the team that had Maliq play the 5 and was 107th in the country in block rate, 12th in the country in steal rate, 306th in the country in 2P% allowed, and 240th in the country in 3P% allowed.

What I find silly is people assuming Maliq can be a rotation 5 when there is a mountain of evidence that he is ill-suited for that role. In fact, no one has presented a single Maliq reason as to why Maliq can be a rotation 5. I'm sorry I'm going to interrupt you SkyB. All-ACC defense is a positionless team. Maliq made the team because he led the league in steals, not because how he defended in the post. Also, according to the esteemed Jason Evans, Maliq only appeared on about half of the ballots.

I am glad you are confident in your WAG but you need to acknowledge that it is a WAG. Pretty much everyone on here, you and I included, is dealing in WAGs.

I am not disappointed about Pat. I am disappointed for Pat, and, by extension, Duke. The team is weaker with Pat out indefinitely. It is not a season killer, but it does make the path to an elite defensive team a lot rockier. I was looking forward to Duke having a top-10 defense again.

 

[mph]

Did I miss Maliq playing for Houston last season? If he did, I will have to reassess my opinion of him. Maliq playing the 5 on a team that was 2nd in the country in block rate, 3rd in the country in steal rate, 3rd in the country in 2P% allowed, and 11th in the country in 3P% allowed is a compelling argument that he can play the 5. Give me a sec to check this out. Wait a minute! Maliq didn't play for Houston. He played for Syracuse. You're familiar with Syracuse. That's the team that had Maliq play the 5 and was 107th in the country in block rate, 12th in the country in steal rate, 306th in the country in 2P% allowed, and 240th in the country in 3P% allowed.

What I find silly is people assuming Maliq can be a rotation 5 when there is a mountain of evidence that he is ill-suited for that role. In fact, no one has presented a single Maliq reason as to why Maliq can be a rotation 5. I'm sorry I'm going to interrupt you SkyB. All-ACC defense is a positionless team. Maliq made the team because he led the league in steals, not because how he defended in the post. Also, according to the esteemed Jason Evans, Maliq only appeared on about half of the ballots.

I am glad you are confident in your WAG but you need to acknowledge that it is a WAG. Pretty much everyone on here, you and I included, is dealing in WAGs.

I am not disappointed about Pat. I am disappointed for Pat, and, by extension, Duke. The team is weaker with Pat out indefinitely. It is not a season killer, but it does make the path to an elite defensive team a lot rockier. I was looking forward to Duke having a top-10 defense again.

Sure the team is weaker without Pat, but if we’re going to talk about evidence, what evidence suggests Pat is the difference between a good defense and elite defense? Writing off our potential to be a top-10 defense makes assumptions about Pat’s playing time that were far from certain. It’s also excessively pessimistic about the defensive strengths of the 8 guys who were already likely to play more minutes than Pat. I’d still put money on this team finishing the season in KenPom’s top-10 defenses.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Did I miss Maliq playing for Houston last season? If he did, I will have to reassess my opinion of him. Maliq playing the 5 on a team that was 2nd in the country in block rate, 3rd in the country in steal rate, 3rd in the country in 2P% allowed, and 11th in the country in 3P% allowed is a compelling argument that he can play the 5. Give me a sec to check this out. Wait a minute! Maliq didn't play for Houston. He played for Syracuse. You're familiar with Syracuse. That's the team that had Maliq play the 5 and was 107th in the country in block rate, 12th in the country in steal rate, 306th in the country in 2P% allowed, and 240th in the country in 3P% allowed.

What I find silly is people assuming Maliq can be a rotation 5 when there is a mountain of evidence that he is ill-suited for that role. In fact, no one has presented a single Maliq reason as to why Maliq can be a rotation 5. I'm sorry I'm going to interrupt you SkyB. All-ACC defense is a positionless team. Maliq made the team because he led the league in steals, not because how he defended in the post. Also, according to the esteemed Jason Evans, Maliq only appeared on about half of the ballots.

I am glad you are confident in your WAG but you need to acknowledge that it is a WAG. Pretty much everyone on here, you and I included, is dealing in WAGs.

I am not disappointed about Pat. I am disappointed for Pat, and, by extension, Duke. The team is weaker with Pat out indefinitely. It is not a season killer, but it does make the path to an elite defensive team a lot rockier. I was looking forward to Duke having a top-10 defense again.

Yowza. You are more down on Maliq at the 5 than you are on Kon at the 3!

I think only the opening of the season will sway you at this point, so I will cease and desist with my arguments...

 

[azzefkram]

Sure the team is weaker without Pat, but if we’re going to talk about evidence, what evidence suggests Pat is the difference between a good defense and elite defense? Writing off our potential to be a top-10 defense makes assumptions about Pat’s playing time that were far from certain. It’s also excessively pessimistic about the defensive strengths of the 8 guys who were already likely to play more minutes than Pat. I’d still put money on this team finishing the season in KenPom’s top-10 defenses.

I can't give you any since Pat hasn't played any D1 ball and I didn't write it off, I just said the path would be a lot rockier.

I think Maliq will be probably be the second or third best defensive player on Duke this season. Anything that move him out of the starting lineup makes the team weaker defensively.

 

[azzefkram]

Yowza. You are more down on Maliq at the 5 than you are on Kon at the 3!

I think only the opening of the season will sway you at this point, so I will cease and desist with my arguments...

I love you SkyB and I appreciate your optimism but you have never given me a reason to be swayed.

 

[SkyBrickey]

I love you SkyB and I appreciate your optimism but you have never given me a reason to be swayed.

Take your complaints to Coach Scheyer, not me... He's the only one who can help you at this stage, Azz.