Pat Ngongba "out indefinitely," in a boot

Ngongba injury is legitimately concerning.

Without him we only have 2 true bigs which is a bit thin for my liking. We're essentially an injury away from Begovich getting minutes.
 
dukelion said:
Ngongba injury is legitimately concerning.

Without him we only have 2 true bigs which is a bit thin for my liking. We're essentially an injury away from Begovich getting minutes.
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Dissent... if Man-man or Brown were to be injured, Duke would likely play 5-out on offense and let 225 pound Mason Gillis lean on opposing bigs a few minutes every game. Flagg would be more than capable of guarding a big too for a few minutes a game.
 
JasonEvans said:
Dissent... if Man-man or Brown were to be injured, Duke would likely play 5-out on offense and let 225 pound Mason Gillis lean on opposing bigs a few minutes every game. Flagg would be more than capable of guarding a big too for a few minutes a game.
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Yeah, as great as it would be to have a third guy who can play a more traditional "5", as Duke fans we've been spoiled of late. Most teams nowadays don't have any traditional centers, or the ones that they do have limit their teams with their inflexibility to the modern game. Man-man and Brown is a duo 95% of the country would kill for, even without Ngongba.

I also second Jason's comment about Mason. At Purdue he played a lot at the 4, and 4s in the Big Ten are very often more similar to 5's elsewhere given the conference's old-fashioned style. The best comparison that comes to mind relevant to our fandom is that he's a bigger, stronger, and more talented Dave McClure... Duke went to McClure at the "5" for non-trivial minutes during the 08-09 season (my first year on campus!) with some success, and that was back when traditional centers were the norm and not the exception. If a forward combo of Flagg and Gillis for 5-10 mpg is our worst-case scenario given foul trouble, we're in great shape.
 
With regards to Big Pat, I really worry that this could be a chronic thing. Big men with foot injuries often are never the same. Recall that the foot had been good enough for him to play in the High School National Championship last April as well as some All-star games... and now it is bad again.

That's not a good sign, not at all.

Oden_crop_north.jpg
 
JasonEvans said:
With regards to Big Pat, I really worry that this could be a chronic thing. Big men with foot injuries often are never the same. Recall that the foot had been good enough for him to play in the High School National Championship last April as well as some All-star games... and now it is bad again.

That's not a good sign, not at all.

Oden_crop_north.jpg
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Is it the same foot?

Carlos Boozer had a pretty good career despite twice having a broken foot.
 
I didn't think we would see much of Ngongba this season anyways given that he was injured for pretty much the entirety of the past year as well as the likelihood of Scheyer going with a front court rotation of 3-4 guys tops (Flagg, Maluach, Brown, Gillis). I'm going to assume this closes the door on seeing him out on the floor at all for 24-25. Even before this news, I already thought our front court is a potential weakness to be exploited. Hopefully a guy like Gillis can help us from getting pushed around.

I'm hopeful this doesn't prevent Patrick from becoming a factor at Duke some time in the future.
 
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JasonEvans said:
Dissent... if Man-man or Brown were to be injured, Duke would likely play 5-out on offense and let 225 pound Mason Gillis lean on opposing bigs a few minutes every game. Flagg would be more than capable of guarding a big too for a few minutes a game.
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scottdude8 said:
Yeah, as great as it would be to have a third guy who can play a more traditional "5", as Duke fans we've been spoiled of late. Most teams nowadays don't have any traditional centers, or the ones that they do have limit their teams with their inflexibility to the modern game. Man-man and Brown is a duo 95% of the country would kill for, even without Ngongba.

I also second Jason's comment about Mason. At Purdue he played a lot at the 4, and 4s in the Big Ten are very often more similar to 5's elsewhere given the conference's old-fashioned style. The best comparison that comes to mind relevant to our fandom is that he's a bigger, stronger, and more talented Dave McClure... Duke went to McClure at the "5" for non-trivial minutes during the 08-09 season (my first year on campus!) with some success, and that was back when traditional centers were the norm and not the exception. If a forward combo of Flagg and Gillis for 5-10 mpg is our worst-case scenario given foul trouble, we're in great shape.
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I will dissent to your dissent (redissent?). Pat's unavailability reduces Duke's depth at the 5 and the 4. Man-Man will probably be minutes challenged early in the season. The minutes Maliq will now need to cover at the 5 are minutes he won't be available for the 4. Duke is now weaker in the frontcourt. Can Mason help with that? I'm not as convinced as SD8. Mason was playing the 4 with Edey at the 5. That is significantly different than Mason and Maliq at the 4 and 5. Edey covered much of Mason's weaknesses (Mason is a dreadful rebounder for a 4). Maliq is not a good rebounder for a 5.

This puts a pretty big dent in Duke's chances of having an elite defense.
 
azzefkram said:
I will dissent to your dissent (redissent?). Pat's unavailability reduces Duke's depth at the 5 and the 4. Man-Man will probably be minutes challenged early in the season. The minutes Maliq will now need to cover at the 5 are minutes he won't be available for the 4. Duke is now weaker in the frontcourt. Can Mason help with that? I'm not as convinced as SD8. Mason was playing the 4 with Edey at the 5. That is significantly different than Mason and Maliq at the 4 and 5. Edey covered much of Mason's weaknesses (Mason is a dreadful rebounder for a 4). Maliq is not a good rebounder for a 5.

This puts a pretty big dent in Duke's chances of having an elite defense.
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But it helps SkyBrickey with his view that Cooper should be at the 4.
 
Feel bad for Pat. Hope it's not too serious and he makes it back this season. I won't reopen the debate but, no, I don't think it really changes anything with the team.

And I think I've heard two CBB analysts plus JE, just this week, call for some Cooper-at-the-5 small ball. To me that's fun to imagine, but I'd be surprised if Jon burns any cycles installing that unless Man Man or Maliq go down with an injury.
 
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