Observations from Countdown and practice

[SkyBrickey]

To my mind, that is the likely scenario. I was picturing Cooper in the 14 to 16 points a game range. I think the offense will run through him, but he will see a lot of double teams and I think he will make a decent number of assists. My suspicion is that Caleb will have the Jeremy Roach role — when there is little time on the shot clock, it’ll be in his hands to make a play.

Agreed on Cooper. I'm thinking 15/8/4/2.5. With most of those 4 assists coming on kick-out 3s when the defense collapses on him.

That really stands out in his HS tape. Because of his excellent vision and size and unselfishness, he excels at finding the open shooter. It almost looks like his first option on a lot of his drives. And he's got better shooters around him at Duke than Monteverde...

If Jon goes with the shorter rotation like Jason predicts, I could see Cooper, Kon, Caleb all in that 13-16ppg range.

 

[azzefkram]

Curious - does anybody think Caleb or Kon might lead the team in scoring instead of Cooper?

A slight maybe on Caleb and a no for Kon. I think Jon will encourage Cooper to be more assertive offensively.

 

[azzefkram]

You've got to play to win now. If Ngongba, Harris, Evans are good enough to be in our top-7 as sophomores - and I think all of them will be - then it's very likely they come back.

Would TJ be ahead of Cooper or Kon this season? Nope. Would Sean Stewart be ahead of Maliq or Khaman this season? I don't think so. That's very likely why they aren't in a Duke uniform this year.

Evans is a bit of an unusual case. A top 15 recruit. A very likely NBA first round draft pick. His opportunity right now is to beat out Mason and earn those 8th man minutes. I trust the staff is treating him honestly and fairly.

I agree with your first sentence wholeheartedly. Your second sentence has a lot more unknown than you are crediting. At the end of this season, I would be surprised if Jon knew who his top 7 will be for the following season. Jon strikes me as a very honest coach. I'd imagine that he would tell Pat, Isaiah and Darren that they would have the opportunity to earn playing time. I'm not sure that's enough to keep them around (not that he should tell them differently), because the outside conversations may be along the lines of "you'll have all the minutes you want here."

 

[SkyBrickey]

I agree with your first sentence wholeheartedly. Your second sentence has a lot more unknown than you are crediting. At the end of this season, I would be surprised if Jon knew who his top 7 will be for the following season. Jon strikes me as a very honest coach. I'd imagine that he would tell Pat, Isaiah and Darren that they would have the opportunity to earn playing time. I'm not sure that's enough to keep them around (not that he should tell them differently), because the outside conversations may be along the lines of "you'll have all the minutes you want here."

It will have everything to do with what OAD recruits and talented transfers are coming in at their positions. Would a top-5 national recruit Nate Ament coming in to play SF impact Evans' decision on coming back? Very possibly.

 

[Namtilal]

There's another question to ask here. When was the last time Coach K had this much talent 1-10? We were very "top heavy" during the OAD years. So just for kicks I went back and pulled the 8th man minutes for the pre-OAD years.

2010 - Andre Dawkins 12.6
2009 - Dave McClure 15.8
2008 - Brian Zoubek 10.5
2007 - Jamal Boykin 10.0
2006 - Martynas Pocius 6.1
2005 - Reggie Love 10.2

Personally, I think Gillis' talent is much closer (or above) Dave McClure than Pocius. Bottom line, when Coach K had deeper teams, he played more guys.

That list is full of great defenders and glue guys, except for Dawkins and his deadly shot.

McClure is one of the GOAT glue guys. I loved his game and what he did.

 

[gep]

Agreed on Cooper. I'm thinking 15/8/4/2.5. With most of those 4 assists coming on kick-out 3s when the defense collapses on him.

That really stands out in his HS tape. Because of his excellent vision and size and unselfishness, he excels at finding the open shooter. It almost looks like his first option on a lot of his drives. And he's got better shooters around him at Duke than Monteverde...

If Jon goes with the shorter rotation like Jason predicts, I could see Cooper, Kon, Caleb all in that 13-16ppg range.

My "problem" with assist numbers is, for example, Coop makes a brilliant pass to a wide open shooter... if he makes the basket, then +1 assist... but if he misses, then 0 assists. That brilliant pass gotta count for something.... maybe like the discussion of the "hockey assist".

 

[sagegrouse]

I watched Cooper in four championship/playoff games with Montverde. He was skilled and a major contributor in the first two, but he took over the games in the second two. I look for a similar pattern this year -- 12-15 points in many games, punctuated by explosive outbursts of 20-30.

 

[DukieInBrasil]

I agree with your first sentence wholeheartedly. Your second sentence has a lot more unknown than you are crediting. At the end of this season, I would be surprised if Jon knew who his top 7 will be for the following season. Jon strikes me as a very honest coach. I'd imagine that he would tell Pat, Isaiah and Darren that they would have the opportunity to earn playing time. I'm not sure that's enough to keep them around (not that he should tell them differently), because the outside conversations may be along the lines of "you'll have all the minutes you want here."

If this year's team develops well, plays together, and maximizes its potential, a Championship or 3 (ACC, Regional, National) is a possibility. Do not underestimate the attraction of playing for a winner. The message of "you'll have the opportunity to earn playing time for a reigning National Champion looking to repeat" has a very different appeal than "you'll have all the playing time you want" at some also ran. Of course, that message only works if the first part happens... ;-)

It will have everything to do with what OAD recruits and talented transfers are coming in at their positions. Would a top-5 national recruit Nate Ament coming in to play SF impact Evans' decision on coming back? Very possibly.

and Jon's desire to seek those transfers and OADs will depend on a) the play of those guys who fall out of the high-use rotation (Evans, as the example) during the season b) how they fit together with other returning players and c) the level of continuity that Jon wants for the program. IOW, i could easily see a situaion in which all of Evans, Harris and Ngongba don't really crack (what i'm calling) the high-use rotation, but play well enough when they do and complement each other well enough that Jon would be comfortable enough to not pursue transfers at their positions. OTOH, if each of the best players in the country at those positions wants to transfer to Duke, it'd be hard to fault Jon for not accepting them...

 

[JasonEvans]

I keep on seeing all this pushback here and on Twitter to my report that Duke was only going 7 deep in practice. Folks keep saying. "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" or "If Scheyer wants Evans to be back, he will play him 10+ min per game" and other similar comments that all of you can read earlier in this thread.

Folks, I want to be absolutely clear about this... my comments were not what I want to happen or what I predict will happen. I was stating an immutable FACT about what happened at practice. Jon quite clearly had his starters in white and the rest of the team in blue. Isaiah Evans and Darren Harris never wore white. Mason Gillis only put it on once and it was so fleeting you would have missed it if you blinked. To put a finer point on it -- Cooper, Proctor, CFos, and Maluach NEVER PLAYED WITH Evans or Harris a single second during any 5x5 activity in practice. The only time Gillis played with the white team was a brief moment where Cooper, Khaman, and Proctor were all on the sidelines (meaning Gillis was playing against a blue team that featured Begovich, Hubbard, and Sheffield).

People keep saying this notion of a 7 man group is my idea. It is not. It is what any careful observer saw at that practice. It is just me stating a fact.

I have read some folks who said maybe Scheyer was hiding some things from the open practice, but it feels ludicrous to think that he is hiding a deep rotational thing from us. Toward what end? Do we really think that Scheyer has some secret rotational plan involving Harris/Gillis/Evans that will so gobsmack opponents that he does not want to give it away yet? Do you hear how silly that sounds?

And it is also worth noting that I am not saying I feel guys 8-10 (Gillis, Evans, Harris) won't play at all this season. I just think, based on what I saw, that they will play quite sparingly with the starters and I would expect these guys to have a role closer to a TJ Power or Sean Stewart than a role like Jaylen Blakes or Ryan Young.

I will, of course, freely admit that it is early and the performance of players in games or in practice could alter Scheyer's thinking about guys 8-10. We all know injuries could play a big role in that alteration too. But I think it is significant at this very early part of the season that Scheyer already seems to be settling in on a core 7 guys and if we had a NCAA tourney game tomorrow, I expect the odds would be very strong that none of Gillis/Evans/Harris would play more than maybe 4 minutes or so.

 

[Edouble]

I keep on seeing all this pushback here and on Twitter to my report that Duke was only going 7 deep in practice. Folks keep saying. "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" or "If Scheyer wants Evans to be back, he will play him 10+ min per game" and other similar comments that all of you can read earlier in this thread.

Folks, I want to be absolutely clear about this... my comments were not what I want to happen or what I predict will happen. I was stating an immutable FACT about what happened at practice. Jon quite clearly had his starters in white and the rest of the team in blue. Isaiah Evans and Darren Harris never wore white. Mason Gillis only put it on once and it was so fleeting you would have missed it if you blinked. To put a finer point on it -- Cooper, Proctor, CFos, and Maluach NEVER PLAYED WITH Evans or Harris a single second during any 5x5 activity in practice. The only time Gillis played with the white team was a brief moment where Cooper, Khaman, and Proctor were all on the sidelines (meaning Gillis was playing against a blue team that featured Begovich, Hubbard, and Sheffield).

People keep saying this notion of a 7 man group is my idea. It is not. It is what any careful observer saw at that practice. It is just me stating a fact.

I have read some folks who said maybe Scheyer was hiding some things from the open practice, but it feels ludicrous to think that he is hiding a deep rotational thing from us. Toward what end? Do we really think that Scheyer has some secret rotational plan involving Harris/Gillis/Evans that will so gobsmack opponents that he does not want to give it away yet? Do you hear how silly that sounds?

And it is also worth noting that I am not saying I feel guys 8-10 (Gillis, Evans, Harris) won't play at all this season. I just think, based on what I saw, that they will play quite sparingly with the starters and I would expect these guys to have a role closer to a TJ Power or Sean Stewart than a role like Jaylen Blakes or Ryan Young.

I will, of course, freely admit that it is early and the performance of players in games or in practice could alter Scheyer's thinking about guys 8-10. We all know injuries could play a big role in that alteration too. But I think it is significant at this very early part of the season that Scheyer already seems to be settling in on a core 7 guys and if we had a NCAA tourney game tomorrow, I expect the odds would be very strong that none of Gillis/Evans/Harris would play more than maybe 4 minutes or so.

You're overthinking it.

Duke going seven deep with starters in the first practice, and "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" aren't mutually exclusive. They're both true.

Other immutable facts: Gillis was sixth man of the year in the Big Ten and the sixth best three point shooter in the country. He was brought in to be a dog, or a (insert Coach K bad word) on the court.

 

[uh_no]

My "problem" with assist numbers is, for example, Coop makes a brilliant pass to a wide open shooter... if he makes the basket, then +1 assist... but if he misses, then 0 assists. That brilliant pass gotta count for something.... maybe like the discussion of the "hockey assist".

On the other hand, if you're making "brilliant" passes to a person who can't knock down threes, then maybe the passwas only "brilliant" because the defense left the person open because that person can't knock down threes.

With a small sample size, sure, you're burned by people who might not hit their shots....but over the long term, if you aren't passing to people who are scoring consistently, then yeah, it doesn't matter.

 

[azzefkram]

Would TJ be ahead of Cooper or Kon this season? Nope. Would Sean Stewart be ahead of Maliq or Khaman this season? I don't think so. That's very likely why they aren't in a Duke uniform this year.

TJ would not be ahead of Cooper, but at the time of the transfer decision, it is not out of the question that he would be ahead of Kon. Sean would not be ahead of Khaman, but assuming a sophomore Sean may be ahead of Maliq is not unreasonable.

We never really know why a player decides to leave Duke, but my guess is a lack of playing time in the current season is pretty high on the rankings.

 

[SkyBrickey]

I keep on seeing all this pushback here and on Twitter to my report that Duke was only going 7 deep in practice. Folks keep saying. "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" or "If Scheyer wants Evans to be back, he will play him 10+ min per game" and other similar comments that all of you can read earlier in this thread.

Folks, I want to be absolutely clear about this... my comments were not what I want to happen or what I predict will happen. I was stating an immutable FACT about what happened at practice. Jon quite clearly had his starters in white and the rest of the team in blue. Isaiah Evans and Darren Harris never wore white. Mason Gillis only put it on once and it was so fleeting you would have missed it if you blinked. To put a finer point on it -- Cooper, Proctor, CFos, and Maluach NEVER PLAYED WITH Evans or Harris a single second during any 5x5 activity in practice. The only time Gillis played with the white team was a brief moment where Cooper, Khaman, and Proctor were all on the sidelines (meaning Gillis was playing against a blue team that featured Begovich, Hubbard, and Sheffield).

People keep saying this notion of a 7 man group is my idea. It is not. It is what any careful observer saw at that practice. It is just me stating a fact.

I have read some folks who said maybe Scheyer was hiding some things from the open practice, but it feels ludicrous to think that he is hiding a deep rotational thing from us. Toward what end? Do we really think that Scheyer has some secret rotational plan involving Harris/Gillis/Evans that will so gobsmack opponents that he does not want to give it away yet? Do you hear how silly that sounds?

And it is also worth noting that I am not saying I feel guys 8-10 (Gillis, Evans, Harris) won't play at all this season. I just think, based on what I saw, that they will play quite sparingly with the starters and I would expect these guys to have a role closer to a TJ Power or Sean Stewart than a role like Jaylen Blakes or Ryan Young.

I will, of course, freely admit that it is early and the performance of players in games or in practice could alter Scheyer's thinking about guys 8-10. We all know injuries could play a big role in that alteration too. But I think it is significant at this very early part of the season that Scheyer already seems to be settling in on a core 7 guys and if we had a NCAA tourney game tomorrow, I expect the odds would be very strong that none of Gillis/Evans/Harris would play more than maybe 4 minutes or so.

Personally, I'm not disputing what you saw in practice or that Gillis is currently the 8th man in the rotation. It all makes sense and is what I would have guessed.

I'm just challenging the idea that by watching one practice, you conclude that our 8th man will only play 4-5 minutes in competitive games. That's a bridge too far IMO.

I posted the data that shows that back in the pre-OAD era, when K had deep teams like this one, he routinely played his 8th men 10-15mpg.

Maybe we do only go 7 deep this season. Or maybe we don't. I don't think what you witnessed in one practice gives us a conclusive answer. And I would bet on 10mpg+ for Gillis.

 

[azzefkram]

I keep on seeing all this pushback here and on Twitter to my report that Duke was only going 7 deep in practice. Folks keep saying. "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" or "If Scheyer wants Evans to be back, he will play him 10+ min per game" and other similar comments that all of you can read earlier in this thread.

Folks, I want to be absolutely clear about this... my comments were not what I want to happen or what I predict will happen. I was stating an immutable FACT about what happened at practice. Jon quite clearly had his starters in white and the rest of the team in blue. Isaiah Evans and Darren Harris never wore white. Mason Gillis only put it on once and it was so fleeting you would have missed it if you blinked. To put a finer point on it -- Cooper, Proctor, CFos, and Maluach NEVER PLAYED WITH Evans or Harris a single second during any 5x5 activity in practice. The only time Gillis played with the white team was a brief moment where Cooper, Khaman, and Proctor were all on the sidelines (meaning Gillis was playing against a blue team that featured Begovich, Hubbard, and Sheffield).

People keep saying this notion of a 7 man group is my idea. It is not. It is what any careful observer saw at that practice. It is just me stating a fact.

I have read some folks who said maybe Scheyer was hiding some things from the open practice, but it feels ludicrous to think that he is hiding a deep rotational thing from us. Toward what end? Do we really think that Scheyer has some secret rotational plan involving Harris/Gillis/Evans that will so gobsmack opponents that he does not want to give it away yet? Do you hear how silly that sounds?

And it is also worth noting that I am not saying I feel guys 8-10 (Gillis, Evans, Harris) won't play at all this season. I just think, based on what I saw, that they will play quite sparingly with the starters and I would expect these guys to have a role closer to a TJ Power or Sean Stewart than a role like Jaylen Blakes or Ryan Young.

I will, of course, freely admit that it is early and the performance of players in games or in practice could alter Scheyer's thinking about guys 8-10. We all know injuries could play a big role in that alteration too. But I think it is significant at this very early part of the season that Scheyer already seems to be settling in on a core 7 guys and if we had a NCAA tourney game tomorrow, I expect the odds would be very strong that none of Gillis/Evans/Harris would play more than maybe 4 minutes or so.

A possible explanation is that Jon doesn't know who the fifth starter is, but Mason, Evans, and Harris are outside the mix.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

I keep on seeing all this pushback here and on Twitter to my report that Duke was only going 7 deep in practice. Folks keep saying. "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" or "If Scheyer wants Evans to be back, he will play him 10+ min per game" and other similar comments that all of you can read earlier in this thread.

Folks, I want to be absolutely clear about this... my comments were not what I want to happen or what I predict will happen. I was stating an immutable FACT about what happened at practice. Jon quite clearly had his starters in white and the rest of the team in blue. Isaiah Evans and Darren Harris never wore white. Mason Gillis only put it on once and it was so fleeting you would have missed it if you blinked. To put a finer point on it -- Cooper, Proctor, CFos, and Maluach NEVER PLAYED WITH Evans or Harris a single second during any 5x5 activity in practice. The only time Gillis played with the white team was a brief moment where Cooper, Khaman, and Proctor were all on the sidelines (meaning Gillis was playing against a blue team that featured Begovich, Hubbard, and Sheffield).

People keep saying this notion of a 7 man group is my idea. It is not. It is what any careful observer saw at that practice. It is just me stating a fact.

I have read some folks who said maybe Scheyer was hiding some things from the open practice, but it feels ludicrous to think that he is hiding a deep rotational thing from us. Toward what end? Do we really think that Scheyer has some secret rotational plan involving Harris/Gillis/Evans that will so gobsmack opponents that he does not want to give it away yet? Do you hear how silly that sounds?

And it is also worth noting that I am not saying I feel guys 8-10 (Gillis, Evans, Harris) won't play at all this season. I just think, based on what I saw, that they will play quite sparingly with the starters and I would expect these guys to have a role closer to a TJ Power or Sean Stewart than a role like Jaylen Blakes or Ryan Young.

I will, of course, freely admit that it is early and the performance of players in games or in practice could alter Scheyer's thinking about guys 8-10. We all know injuries could play a big role in that alteration too. But I think it is significant at this very early part of the season that Scheyer already seems to be settling in on a core 7 guys and if we had a NCAA tourney game tomorrow, I expect the odds would be very strong that none of Gillis/Evans/Harris would play more than maybe 4 minutes or so.

Obviously you're not Jon but since your assessment on Gillis' playing time (as well as your defense of a short bench) is driving this convo, I'm curious why Gillis would transfer here to play 5 minutes a game. If the answer is that he wouldn't, then why would Jon recruit that level of player to have him sit on the bench? And if the answer is Jon only came to that decision after seeing Gillis in practice, then why wasn't 3 years of tape of Gillis playing high-level basketball enough for Jon to make an accurate assessment of how he'd do at Duke?

Personally I think there's zero chance Gillis plays that few minutes. The optics would be terrible. So I hope your assessment is off.

 

[scottdude8]

You're overthinking it.

Duke going seven deep with starters in the first practice, and "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" aren't mutually exclusive. They're both true.

Other immutable facts: Gillis was sixth man of the year in the Big Ten and the sixth best three point shooter in the country. He was brought in to be a dog, or a (insert Coach K bad word) on the court.

I want to chime in here since I'm with you, Edouble, about Mason, being one of his biggest proponents over the summer... but I also think Jason needs some defending here.

We're now under two weeks from our first exhibition and about a month from real game action. So here's the question: if Jon was planning for Mason to be playing big minutes alongside our key rotation players, why wouldn't he be practicing like it? I'm with Jason that I see no benefit to hiding something as innocuous as our 7th/8th man's role during an open practice.

If, for instance, the plan was for Mason to get 10 mpg at the 4 alongside a lineup that looks something like 2 out of our 3 guards (including Sion), Cooper/Kon, and Maliq/Khaman, wouldn't that be a lineup that would merit getting significant run during practice? I think most of us assumed that this would be a lineup we saw a lot this year, but the fact that it wasn't is extremely noteworthy/newsworthy... and it's the exact type of insight we're lucky to get from a guy like Jason for free

It's also worth remembering that rotations change over the course of the year. Just because this is what things look like now doesn't mean it won't be different in January. In fact, I think it's very possible that this is Jon's initial plan based purely off of talent and practice performance, but once this team gets punched in the mouth (proverbially speaking, of course) in game action he'll decide he needs the defense/toughness Mason brings.

Here's the final thing: Mason being a guy who has already shown his versatility and flexibility for four years at Purdue makes his situation a bit different. If someone with Mason's profile was a freshman or sophomore, I'd be more worried about his ability to shift into a bigger role when needed based on what Jason is reporting. But as a super senior who has been a swiss-army knife on a top-tier Purdue team, I think Mason is much better suited for a role that fluctuates based on the matchup, how freshmen like Kon stand up to ACC play, etc.

 

[SkyBrickey]

I want to chime in here since I'm with you, Edouble, about Mason, being one of his biggest proponents over the summer... but I also think Jason needs some defending here.

We're now under two weeks from our first exhibition and about a month from real game action. So here's the question: if Jon was planning for Mason to be playing big minutes alongside our key rotation players, why wouldn't he be practicing like it? I'm with Jason that I see no benefit to hiding something as innocuous as our 7th/8th man's role during an open practice.

If, for instance, the plan was for Mason to get 10 mpg at the 4 alongside a lineup that looks something like 2 out of our 3 guards (including Sion), Cooper/Kon, and Maliq/Khaman, wouldn't that be a lineup that would merit getting significant run during practice? I think most of us assumed that this would be a lineup we saw a lot this year, but the fact that it wasn't is extremely noteworthy/newsworthy... and it's the exact type of insight we're lucky to get from a guy like Jason for free

It's also worth remembering that rotations change over the course of the year. Just because this is what things look like now doesn't mean it won't be different in January. In fact, I think it's very possible that this is Jon's initial plan based purely off of talent and practice performance, but once this team gets punched in the mouth (proverbially speaking, of course) in game action he'll decide he needs the defense/toughness Mason brings.

Here's the final thing: Mason being a guy who has already shown his versatility and flexibility for four years at Purdue makes his situation a bit different. If someone with Mason's profile was a freshman or sophomore, I'd be more worried about his ability to shift into a bigger role when needed based on what Jason is reporting. But as a super senior who has been a swiss-army knife on a top-tier Purdue team, I think Mason is much better suited for a role that fluctuates based on the matchup, how freshmen like Kon stand up to ACC play, etc.

Here's what I think has happened. When Jon recruited Mason, I don't think he knew Kon would be ready to play 30mpg on a championship team.

I think he brought Mason in to compete with Isaiah and Kon. And he has. And it's turned out Kon is too good to not play. And Mason has helped toughen up Kon and make him even better over the summer.

There's still an important role for Mason backing up Kon for 5-10mpg at the 3 and Cooper for 5-10mpg at the 4. Those guys aren't playing 40mpg.

 

[budwom]

I keep on seeing all this pushback here and on Twitter to my report that Duke was only going 7 deep in practice. Folks keep saying. "Gillis wasn't brought in to sit" or "If Scheyer wants Evans to be back, he will play him 10+ min per game" and other similar comments that all of you can read earlier in this thread.

Folks, I want to be absolutely clear about this... my comments were not what I want to happen or what I predict will happen. I was stating an immutable FACT about what happened at practice. Jon quite clearly had his starters in white and the rest of the team in blue. Isaiah Evans and Darren Harris never wore white. Mason Gillis only put it on once and it was so fleeting you would have missed it if you blinked. To put a finer point on it -- Cooper, Proctor, CFos, and Maluach NEVER PLAYED WITH Evans or Harris a single second during any 5x5 activity in practice. The only time Gillis played with the white team was a brief moment where Cooper, Khaman, and Proctor were all on the sidelines (meaning Gillis was playing against a blue team that featured Begovich, Hubbard, and Sheffield).

People keep saying this notion of a 7 man group is my idea. It is not. It is what any careful observer saw at that practice. It is just me stating a fact.

I have read some folks who said maybe Scheyer was hiding some things from the open practice, but it feels ludicrous to think that he is hiding a deep rotational thing from us. Toward what end? Do we really think that Scheyer has some secret rotational plan involving Harris/Gillis/Evans that will so gobsmack opponents that he does not want to give it away yet? Do you hear how silly that sounds?

And it is also worth noting that I am not saying I feel guys 8-10 (Gillis, Evans, Harris) won't play at all this season. I just think, based on what I saw, that they will play quite sparingly with the starters and I would expect these guys to have a role closer to a TJ Power or Sean Stewart than a role like Jaylen Blakes or Ryan Young.

I will, of course, freely admit that it is early and the performance of players in games or in practice could alter Scheyer's thinking about guys 8-10. We all know injuries could play a big role in that alteration too. But I think it is significant at this very early part of the season that Scheyer already seems to be settling in on a core 7 guys and if we had a NCAA tourney game tomorrow, I expect the odds would be very strong that none of Gillis/Evans/Harris would play more than maybe 4 minutes or so.

Some serious revisionist history, Jason, because you absolutely DID predict what will happen when you said you were
"skeptical that Mason Gillis, Isiah Evans and Darren Harris will see more than spot minutes in competitive games this year. Not sure how that is not a prediction.
I thought that was an awful take and I still do.

 

[jv001]

I want to chime in here since I'm with you, Edouble, about Mason, being one of his biggest proponents over the summer... but I also think Jason needs some defending here.

We're now under two weeks from our first exhibition and about a month from real game action. So here's the question: if Jon was planning for Mason to be playing big minutes alongside our key rotation players, why wouldn't he be practicing like it? I'm with Jason that I see no benefit to hiding something as innocuous as our 7th/8th man's role during an open practice.

If, for instance, the plan was for Mason to get 10 mpg at the 4 alongside a lineup that looks something like 2 out of our 3 guards (including Sion), Cooper/Kon, and Maliq/Khaman, wouldn't that be a lineup that would merit getting significant run during practice? I think most of us assumed that this would be a lineup we saw a lot this year, but the fact that it wasn't is extremely noteworthy/newsworthy... and it's the exact type of insight we're lucky to get from a guy like Jason for free

It's also worth remembering that rotations change over the course of the year. Just because this is what things look like now doesn't mean it won't be different in January. In fact, I think it's very possible that this is Jon's initial plan based purely off of talent and practice performance, but once this team gets punched in the mouth (proverbially speaking, of course) in game action he'll decide he needs the defense/toughness Mason brings.

Here's the final thing: Mason being a guy who has already shown his versatility and flexibility for four years at Purdue makes his situation a bit different. If someone with Mason's profile was a freshman or sophomore, I'd be more worried about his ability to shift into a bigger role when needed based on what Jason is reporting. But as a super senior who has been a swiss-army knife on a top-tier Purdue team, I think Mason is much better suited for a role that fluctuates based on the matchup, how freshmen like Kon stand up to ACC play, etc.

I agree with Scott. Maybe Jon thought the 7 guys who played together in the practice that Jason saw needs more playing time in practice sessions. Whereas Mason has shown what he can accomplish. After all, he does have the experience and toughness Jon was looking for in the off season. Plus, I find it hard to believe that Jon has made up his mind on the rotation after 2 weeks of practice. I agree with Jason, that our guards are, Tyrese, Caleb and James.

GoDuke!

 

[SkyBrickey]

I agree with Scott. Maybe Jon thought the 7 guys who played together in the practice that Jason saw needs more playing time in practice sessions. Whereas Mason has shown what he can accomplish. After all, he does have the experience and toughness Jon was looking for in the off season. Plus, I find it hard to believe that Jon has made up his mind on the rotation after 2 weeks of practice. I agree with Jason, that our guards are, Tyrese, Caleb and James.

GoDuke!

2 weeks of official practice. But they've been watching and working with them all summer. Jon definitely knows the broad strokes of his rotation. I'd be very surprised if he hasn't already decided on his 1-8 and a general substitution pattern.

He knows for example that Foster will be the guy who will play the 1 and 2 so he needs to get him reps at both.

I'm betting he's also decided who backs up Cooper at the 4 when he's out - Gillis or Brown? I'm guessing it's Gillis so he needs to get Gillis reps at both the 3 and the 4.

The season comes and goes quickly, so Jon has every reason to figure out who his top guys are and have them working together on the court as much as possible.