MBB: Duke 100, Army 58 Post Game Thread

The first matchup between Duke and Army finished 100-38, so Army is improving. It is sobering to remember that that 1996 Duke team finished with 13 losses and a painful but memorable first round exit from the tournament, losing to Eastern Michigan.
 
Billy Dat said:
An obvious headline is, "Another dominant performance against an overmatched opponent." And, at the risk of drawing too much from nothing but overmatched opponents, I think it is safe to say this is the hardest I have seen a Duke team play in years. I point that out because effort is opponent neutral, and against lesser foes it often wanes. These guys seem like they are really embracing the all out effort required to be great and that is very exciting.

That effort fuels the defense which doesn't look pretty so far because the guys are getting used to the myriad line-ups on the floor and are also really pressuring the ball all over the court. BUT, just because it doesn't look pretty doesn't mean it isn't it effective. Combining the effort with our length and the seamingly high defensive instincts and acumen of all these guys is producing a really nasty group to try and attack. Per the effort, we seem to take a real pride on that end and come at you in waves.

On offense, I love that we have gone faster and have embraced the 3 at a rate unprecedented with recent Duke teams. We shot 38 3s tonight. That's not only nearly a 3 a minute, but also 53% of of overall shots. Yes, Chris Spatola again said CFos is our point guard but Cooper is handling the ball, a lot, and his decision making will the ball in his hands is really mature. While his handle needs to tighten up, he reads the defense and understands his gravity, makes great passes as the double arrives, is shooting with confidence, is drawing fouls at a very high rate, and attacks the glass with abandon. How about the way Kon attacks the glass? How about how it seems like he's quiet on offense but he's still our leading scorer and knocking down four 3s? How about Proctor turning into a 3 pointer hunter playing off the gravity of Kon and Cooper, and CFos doing the same but mixing in 3s and drives, which is also something Sion is doing and he nearly caught a historic body on that drive. The unselfishness of this team on offense is awesome, as are the points we generate off our defense and by pushing the ball. Man Man with a 14 and 10.

It's time to see what this team really is against some big boys. We are ready. Bring on the Wildcats!!!!
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To what are you referring (per the bolded part)?
SkyBrickey said:
I'll say again that I think we are going to cover a lot of point spreads until the bettors catch up and realize that Harris and Evans are in there to run up the score. 😎
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Harris did in fact give Duke the magical 100. He did a favor for whoever bet that Duke would score 100+ in at least 1 game this year...
MChambers said:
Through two games, according to T-rank's stats, Duke has taken 67 two point shots and 67 three point shots. They've made 42 two pointers, for 84 points, and 28 three pointers, also for 84 points.

The bad news is that our opponents are making 92.6% of their free throws. Need to tighten that up.
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Yeah, that FT defense is pretty weak. The Crazies need to work on their distraction methods.
 
kAzE said:
I'm gonna zag from the people who are wanting the guards to do more playmaking. I think what we are seeing is the gameplan. Scheyer wants Cooper and Kon to be the playmakers. Those 2 guys are the best shot creators on the team, and Proctor is clearly benefitting from less ball handling responsibility. Being the main ball handler takes a lot of energy, and he's clearly scoring more efficiently than he was last year with the looks he is able to get now being off the ball.

I think this actually helps his draft stock immensely. I know 30 NBA teams who would be interested in a 6'5" guard who can play off ball, defend, and hits 50% of his 3s (he's 7 for 14 through 2 games).
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I think Proctor could lean into being a Derrick White type role as a way to market himself to the NBA. Tough, versatile defender, accurate 3pt shooter, and the ability to handle the PG role when needed.
 
uh_no said:
most efficiency metrics temper impact past a certain point. KP starts to downplay when you are significantly up, especially in a game by which you were supposed to win big anyway. IIRC, NET has a hard cap at some point. It used to be stupidly low (like 10 points) but I think it's somewhat higher now>

In any case, probably little difference in a 20 point vs 40 point win....but you are technically correct, it won't *hurt* the efficiency metrics
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The initial version of the NET included margin of victory which as capped at something like 10 or 15 points. They have since eliminated that component. They continue to use “adjusted efficiency margin” which is highly correlated with margin of victory (adjusted for opponent strength).

As you point out, KenPom and Torvik devalue margin of victory vs overmatched teams, but I have never seen any mention of the NET’s approach to adjusted efficiency margin doing this. The NCAA is extremely vague about the “special sauce” that goes into the NET, so they could be devaluing the impact of running up the score, but I can’t find anywhere they explicitly say this.

TL/DR: It is unclear how much Duke’s NET rating benefitted from blowing out Army by 42 points instead of 25.
 
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pcal6vb said:
I think Proctor could lean into being a Derrick White type role as a way to market himself to the NBA. Tough, versatile defender, accurate 3pt shooter, and the ability to handle the PG role when needed.
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Always been a huge Tyrese fan. But he does seem to be susceptible to people driving on him. Maybe he’s overplaying, knowing he has Coop and Man-man behind him, but it just seems like his first step on D is a touch slower than others.

As far as how Jon is playing him, I’m a big fan. Love that he’s asking Tyrese to be a bit better a few things rather than trying to be good at everything.
 
I know this will sound negative, but I am not getting undefeated, juggernaut vibes from this group... yet.

They go through stretches of impressive mediocrity. There is still a lot for Jon to clean up with this team.

I am hopeful that they will improve as the season progresses and become truly great. Coach K's teams were often very strong out of the gate, sometimes weakening near the end of the season. Jon's teams, so far, have been less polished early, but have continued to improve as the season wore on. If this pattern holds, this team should be astounding in March (and maybe April).
 
JayZee said:
Always been a huge Tyrese fan. But he does seem to be susceptible to people driving on him. Maybe he’s overplaying, knowing he has Coop and Man-man behind him, but it just seems like his first step on D is a touch slower than others.

As far as how Jon is playing him, I’m a big fan. Love that he’s asking Tyrese to be a bit better a few things rather than trying to be good at everything.
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I thought Proctor was terrific defensively last year. I think if there’s any difference this year is what you said, we are being overly aggressive knowing we have rim protectors.
 
Nice win. A lot to like with some areas for improvement (can we find a way to keep Duke's best player from cramping). Man Man and Cooper were beasts on the defensive end and the glass. I'm still on the fence with Tyrese off the ball. His catch and shoot is great but it really leaves Duke with only two playmakers in the starting lineup. Cooper has been even better than I expected as a facilitator, but Caleb is just okay.
 
JayZee said:
Always been a huge Tyrese fan. But he does seem to be susceptible to people driving on him. Maybe he’s overplaying, knowing he has Coop and Man-man behind him, but it just seems like his first step on D is a touch slower than others.

As far as how Jon is playing him, I’m a big fan. Love that he’s asking Tyrese to be a bit better a few things rather than trying to be good at everything.
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If Tyrese is susceptible to being driven on, what are Caleb and Kon? Tyrese is by far Duke's best perimeter defender (I put Cooper in the front court).
 
heyman25 said:
Good victory. I would like to see more playmaking from Proctor Foster and James. There has to be a sports medicine solution to Cooper’s cramping. Just accurate shooting was a little off tonight. They all need to practice free throws. Defense was consistent. Key to keep winning
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I suspect they are practicing them -- they just need to make them. Army was outstanding from the line
 
rsvman said:
I know this will sound negative, but I am not getting undefeated, juggernaut vibes from this group... yet.

They go through stretches of impressive mediocrity. There is still a lot for Jon to clean up with this team.

I am hopeful that they will improve as the season progresses and become truly great. Coach K's teams were often very strong out of the gate, sometimes weakening near the end of the season. Jon's teams, so far, have been less polished early, but have continued to improve as the season wore on. If this pattern holds, this team should be astounding in March (and maybe April).
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Yet.

Jon does seem comfortable with his top-8 and starting lineup. How he mixes that top-8 is still prone to tinkering.

I agree that Jon's teams appear to evolve and progress more than K's more recent teams. I like where this team is and I love where I think it can get to.
 
The Metrics

Another overwhelming win against an undermatched foe. Torvik "turned off" the efficiency metrics with 8:52 still to go in the game. That's impressive dominance. And that's with a rough start shooting the ball that kept it closer than we'd like for the first several minutes. But once things got rolling, they really got rolling.

OFFENSE
Possessions: 70.9 (a medium pace, but fast given that Army likes to play REALLY slowly)
oRtg: 141 (127.8 adjusted; would be the #1 offense nationally, though again way too early to truly assess adjusted ratings)
eFG%: 61.3% (outstanding)
3pt%: 44.7% (outstanding)
2pt%: 54.5% (solid)
%threes: 53.5% (crazy high, but we were facing a pack line defense and we were making them)
FT rate: 25.4% (poor)
OR%: 43.6% (very good)
TO%: 11.3% (excellent)
a/to: 2.38 (very good)
%assisted: 54.3% (strong)
fast break pts: 14 (decent)

DEFENSE
dRtg: 81.8 (97.1 adjusted; would be #45, though still too early to say much about that)
eFG%: 39.1% (excellent)
3pt%: 27.5% (quite good)
2pt%: 37.1% (very good)
%threes: 24.6% (a very high percentage, but not surprising given the height disparity)
FT rate: 14.1% (excellent)
DR%: 77.7% (outstanding)
TO%: 18.3% (solid)
a/to: 0.85 (very good)
%assisted: 19.0% (excellent)
stl%: 11.3% (decent)
blk%: 17.1% (2pt shots) (outstanding)
fast break pts: 5 (very good)

We made shots (as expected), we made them miss shots (as expected), we dominated the boards (as expected), and we won the turnover battle. That's a good recipe for winning games.

The only small question I have from this game (carrying over from the previous game) as that we weren't able to get to the line. It's early, but something to keep an eye on when we face better competition. But that being said, when you win by 30+ (or in this case 40+) in a D1 game, things went pretty well.

On to a big step up in competition next week, against a less talent-laden but VERY veteran Kentucky squad (7 seniors and a junior in their main rotation).
 
A short discussing so far, with Cooper having cramp problems the most discussed. I believe the next most discussed item is Proctor not being involved with the playmaking so far. So, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth which is worth about 2 cents.

It seems that Jon and staff feel it's to the best interest of the team for Tyrese to play off the ball, take open 3s and play defense. I think this makes sense because Tyrese is the best on the ball defender on the team. Here's the assist to turnover numbers for the first two games.
Foster: Game 1= 3 assists and 2 turnovers. Game 2=3 assists and 1 turnover for a total of 6 assists/3 turnovers.
James: Game 1= 1 assist and 2 turnovers. Game 2= 4 assists and 0 turnover for a total of 4 assists/2 turnovers.
Coop: Game 1= 5 assists and 2 turnovers. Game 2= 3 assists and 2 turnovers for a total of 8 assists and 4 turnovers.
Kon: Game 1= 2 assists and 1 turnover. Game 2= 2 assists and 1 turnover for a total of 4 assists and 2 turnovers.
Maliq Game 1= 4 assists and 2 turnovers. Game 2= 1 assist and 1 turnover for a total of 5 assists and 3 turnovers.
I didn't list Malauch because that's not his game and I didn't list Tyrese because he doesn't have a playmaker job it seems.
I don't think anyone would argue with Coopers playmaking skills and I believe he's the first player Jon wants innating the offense. Grant Hill point forward like.

Someone mentioned the team fouling too much. Well, here are those numbers so far.
Foster= 48 minutes and 2 fouls
James= 49 minutes and 4 fouls
Cooper= 55 minutes and 4 fouls
Kon= 59 minutes and 5 fouls
Maliq= 41 minutes and 3 fouls
Tyrese= 49 minutes and 4 fouls
Malauch= 39 minutes and 3 fouls
Gillis= 38 minutes and 2 fouls
The only player to have 3 fouls in one game is Kon in the Maine game. Fouling has not been a problem so far. However, that will probably change in the games coming up against good competition. It's also going to be interesting to see if the minutes change. I know foul problems could change that but if there's not a foul problem will the 8-player rotation stay the same.

GoDuke!
 
So I was gifted two tickets to a B1G - American East contest that occurred at the same time as this ACC-Patriot league contest and so I got to witness two blow outs last night (albeit the Duke game was taped and I got to fast-forward through all of the inane commercials). My spouse watched with me and kept commenting on how much slower the in-person live game was. After we left the arena, she said "now we can go home and watch some real basketball!" Thought you'd all get a kick out of that.
 
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CDu said:
The Metrics

Another overwhelming win against an undermatched foe. Torvik "turned off" the efficiency metrics with 8:52 still to go in the game. That's impressive dominance. And that's with a rough start shooting the ball that kept it closer than we'd like for the first several minutes. But once things got rolling, they really got rolling.

OFFENSE
Possessions: 70.9 (a medium pace, but fast given that Army likes to play REALLY slowly)
oRtg: 141 (127.8 adjusted; would be the #1 offense nationally, though again way too early to truly assess adjusted ratings)
eFG%: 61.3% (outstanding)
3pt%: 44.7% (outstanding)
2pt%: 54.5% (solid)
%threes: 53.5% (crazy high, but we were facing a pack line defense and we were making them)
FT rate: 25.4% (poor)
OR%: 43.6% (very good)
TO%: 11.3% (excellent)
a/to: 2.38 (very good)
%assisted: 54.3% (strong)
fast break pts: 14 (decent)

DEFENSE
dRtg: 81.8 (97.1 adjusted; would be #45, though still too early to say much about that)
eFG%: 39.1% (excellent)
3pt%: 27.5% (quite good)
2pt%: 37.1% (very good)
%threes: 24.6% (a very high percentage, but not surprising given the height disparity)
FT rate: 14.1% (excellent)
DR%: 77.7% (outstanding)
TO%: 18.3% (solid)
a/to: 0.85 (very good)
%assisted: 19.0% (excellent)
stl%: 11.3% (decent)
blk%: 17.1% (2pt shots) (outstanding)
fast break pts: 5 (very good)

We made shots (as expected), we made them miss shots (as expected), we dominated the boards (as expected), and we won the turnover battle. That's a good recipe for winning games.

The only small question I have from this game (carrying over from the previous game) as that we weren't able to get to the line. It's early, but something to keep an eye on when we face better competition. But that being said, when you win by 30+ (or in this case 40+) in a D1 game, things went pretty well.

On to a big step up in competition next week, against a less talent-laden but VERY veteran Kentucky squad (7 seniors and a junior in their main rotation).
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Thank you CDu for posting this. A quick question, are the stats from the whole game or up to when Torvik stops counting?

Also, I would guess that getting to the line would be challenging if Duke is going to shoot such a high percentage of 3s.
 
azzefkram said:
Thank you CDu for posting this. A quick question, are the stats from the whole game or up to when Torvik stops counting?

Also, I would guess that getting to the line would be challenging if Duke is going to shoot such a high percentage of 3s.
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That's a great point and that may be a blessing if our FT shooting doesn't improve.


GoDuke!
 
azzefkram said:
Thank you CDu for posting this. A quick question, are the stats from the whole game or up to when Torvik stops counting?

Also, I would guess that getting to the line would be challenging if Duke is going to shoot such a high percentage of 3s.
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The stats appear to be from the whole game, just eyeballing the box score.
 
azzefkram said:
Thank you CDu for posting this. A quick question, are the stats from the whole game or up to when Torvik stops counting?

Also, I would guess that getting to the line would be challenging if Duke is going to shoot such a high percentage of 3s.
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Stats are from the whole game. Torvik adjusts when he does the adjusted efficiency rankings, but these presented here are whole game stats.

And yes, a team that shoots a lot of jump shots isn’t going to get to the line much.
 
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