Blue Devils in the NBA 2023-2024

Steven43 said:
I’m not sure if anyone has already posted this, but it’s a jaw-dropper. LeBron James said yesterday of Kyrie Irving “He’s the most gifted player the NBA has ever seen.”

I mean, WOW. 😮
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Maybe he’s hoping to get an offer from the Mavs after he opts out of his contract?
 
It's mind blowing that no one has stopped by to discuss the Finals Devils' performances last night.
The Boston Tatums defeated the Mavs to go up 1-0, behind Jayson's 16-11-5 double-double, though he shot 6-16 FGs. BOS got a huge lift from the return of Porzingis, but they also got solid performances from all of their regular players, withe exception of Pritchard, who shot horribly (0-7). Boston was up by 28 at one point, took their eye off the prize and Dallas came back to just down 8, but then the Celtics closed out strong.
Kyrie had a forgetable night, scoring just 12 on 6-19 FGs, while D-Live scored just 2, with 5 boards a steal and an assist.
 
The Boston Tatums got their 2nd home win over the Dallas Irving-Livelys. The three combined to shoot 14-43 from the field. Tatum nearly put up a triple double though, with 12 assists and 9 rebs to go with his 18 pts.
 
Tatum had an excellent 1st half. His 2nd half performance was full of what his haters complain about. His disappearing act contributed to BOS blowing almost all of a 21 pt lead. Still, he finished with 32 pts.
Kyrie also had a big game (35 pts) but also faltered down the stretch.
Lively otoh had an understated double double (11-13) + 2 steals and an assist.
 
If you were to redraft the 2023 draft, am I crazy to say it probably goes like this...

1. Wemby - duuuuh!
2. Brandon Miller
3. Dereck Lively

Lively leads all 2023 rookies in Win Shares and FG% (he just dunks and dunks and dunks).
 
JasonEvans said:
If you were to redraft the 2023 draft, am I crazy to say it probably goes like this...

1. Wemby - duuuuh!
2. Brandon Miller
3. Dereck Lively

Lively leads all 2023 rookies in Win Shares and FG% (he just dunks and dunks and dunks).
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I think it'd be silly to pick Lively any lower and I could even make a case to pick him ahead of Miller. But I might be a little too high on Lively. Both guys have future All-NBA potential, though I think Lively will be somewhat underappreciated no matter how good he gets because of the low visibility of his defensive contributions.
 
phaedrus said:
I think it'd be silly to pick Lively any lower and I could even make a case to pick him ahead of Miller. But I might be a little too high on Lively. Both guys have future All-NBA potential, though I think Lively will be somewhat underappreciated no matter how good he gets because of the low visibility of his defensive contributions.
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Don't get me wrong. I love Lively and what a boost he has given Dallas this year. He's had such an impact defensively and I agree with those who think he'd be picked much higher in a re-draft.

But for Derrick to approach all-NBA level, he's going to have to develop SOME kind of offensive game beyond just catching lobs and dunking them. Right now he's not doing anything else besides that, screening, and dribble handoffs (and crashing the O-boards of course) but unless you display some ability to make a move and score, or to take and make a face-up jumpshot, I just don't think you're going to be considered an all-league level player.
 
tommy said:
Don't get me wrong. I love Lively and what a boost he has given Dallas this year. He's had such an impact defensively and I agree with those who think he'd be picked much higher in a re-draft.

But for Derrick to approach all-NBA level, he's going to have to develop SOME kind of offensive game beyond just catching lobs and dunking them. Right now he's not doing anything else besides that, screening, and dribble handoffs (and crashing the O-boards of course) but unless you display some ability to make a move and score, or to take and make a face-up jumpshot, I just don't think you're going to be considered an all-league level player.
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Maybe. Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace, and Rudy Gobert have all been on one of the All-NBA teams. So has Draymond Green, though his vision and passing gave him some offensive value. Yes, I think Lively would have to approach that level of defensive ace to make All-NBA, and it would help to also develop some scoring ability and become an elite rebounder. But I think those things are possible - and I did say potential. Brandon Miller likewise has work to do to get to that level.
 
tommy said:
Don't get me wrong. I love Lively and what a boost he has given Dallas this year. He's had such an impact defensively and I agree with those who think he'd be picked much higher in a re-draft.

But for Derrick to approach all-NBA level, he's going to have to develop SOME kind of offensive game beyond just catching lobs and dunking them. Right now he's not doing anything else besides that, screening, and dribble handoffs (and crashing the O-boards of course) but unless you display some ability to make a move and score, or to take and make a face-up jumpshot, I just don't think you're going to be considered an all-league level player.
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Yeah, Lively has the potential to one day make an NBA All-Defensive team, but he’ll never make first, second, or third team All-NBA overall. He doesn’t have anywhere near the skill set required.
 
phaedrus said:
Maybe. Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace, and Rudy Gobert have all been on one of the All-NBA teams. So has Draymond Green, though his vision and passing gave him some offensive value. Yes, I think Lively would have to approach that level of defensive ace to make All-NBA, and it would help to also develop some scoring ability and become an elite rebounder. But I think those things are possible - and I did say potential. Brandon Miller likewise has work to do to get to that level.
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Add Deandre Jordan and Joakim Noah to the list, too. Maybe the changes in the game in the last ten years makes those examples less relevant. But those guys couldn't even score in the post, so they weren't any more valuable offensively back then than they would be today.
 
Steven43 said:
Yeah, Lively has the potential to one day make an NBA All-Defensive team, but he’ll never make first, second, or third team All-NBA overall. He doesn’t have anywhere near the skill set required.
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Defense-first guys have an uphill battle, but a transcendent defensive player does have a shot. Time will tell whether Lively can reach that level, but he has a rare combination of size, agility and court awareness - all things that can’t really be taught. His passing is way ahead of where I’d expect at his age. He needs to calm down a bit but that will come.

The next step for him is to hit NBA 3s. He has good form but that’s not a reliable part of his game as of yet. If he gains the ability to stretch the floor on offense AND defend 1-5, look out.

Even if he never expands beyond a limited scoring role, though, he has game-changing ability on defense. I’d never expect to see a defense-first guy on 1st team All-NBA but I could see him being in contention for 2nd or 3rd team. Lots of work for him still to do to get to that level, of course, but imo the potential is there.
 
Matches said:
Defense-first guys have an uphill battle, but a transcendent defensive player does have a shot. Time will tell whether Lively can reach that level, but he has a rare combination of size, agility and court awareness - all things that can’t really be taught. His passing is way ahead of where I’d expect at his age. He needs to calm down a bit but that will come.

The next step for him is to hit NBA 3s. He has good form but that’s not a reliable part of his game as of yet. If he gains the ability to stretch the floor on offense AND defend 1-5, look out.

Even if he never expands beyond a limited scoring role, though, he has game-changing ability on defense. I’d never expect to see a defense-first guy on 1st team All-NBA but I could see him being in contention for 2nd or 3rd team. Lots of work for him still to do to get to that level, of course, but imo the potential is there.
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Well, I certainly hope you turn out to be correct. I don’t see it at all, but I would definitely welcome it. I’ve just never seen a guy with this limited of an offensive game during college end up developing highly advanced skills at the NBA level. Perhaps Akeem “The Dream” Olajuwon comes closest?

Olajuwon didn’t have a particularly advanced offensive game in college — though the vast potential was obviously there — but he developed a sensational offensive game as his career in the NBA developed. To me he is one of the 10 greatest players in basketball history. Dereck Lively is nowhere near the talent level of The Dream. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how it goes.
 
Steven43 said:
Well, I certainly hope you turn out to be correct. I don’t see it at all, but I would definitely welcome it. I’ve just never seen a guy with this limited of an offensive game during college end up developing highly advanced skills at the NBA level. Perhaps Akeem “The Dream” Olajuwon comes closest?

Olajuwon didn’t have a particularly advanced offensive game in college — though the vast potential was obviously there — but he developed a sensational offensive game as his career in the NBA developed. To me he is one of the 10 greatest players in basketball history. Dereck Lively is nowhere near the talent level of The Dream. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how it goes.
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You’re talking about the Dream, but I was just talking about Joakim Noah! You don’t have to be top ten all time to make an All NBA team.
 
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