2024 U.S. Presidential election

cato said:
I never understood the Shapiro love. Seems a bit like a guy always auditioning for higher office. I think Harris made a good decision when she chose Walz.
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I really like Shapiro. But I can’t believe he would have been a better choice given the disgusting amount of anti-semitism that is not just happening but has been mainstreamed.
 
CameronBornAndBred said:
I agree it was a draw, I do not agree it was expected. Walz and Harris have to be feeling very good tonight.
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Vance might have been ahead then he blew it at the end with Jan. 6. The average American thinks that was a horrible day and that Trump is being a baby not admitting he lost. Vance probably could have threaded the needle on that better than he did. Walz could have gone after Trump harder and called out more of Vance's lies (though they weren't as egregious as expected) without appearing totally obsessed.

I still do not understand the Republican obsession with migrants. Everything comes down to migrants. Who is going to build all of the new homes they are talking about?
 
SkyBrickey said:
I wonder how Trump will feel about that performance. Not much of an attack dog tonight.

A draw like a lot of us expected..
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A draw if one completely ignores the accuracy of anything stated. Which unfortunately so many do.

They both seemed to try to out do each other on who is the most cordial to the other.

Though undecideds claim they want to see where the candidates stand on issues that is total complete BS.

Climate Change was a topic and only one candidate is looking to take informed direction. The other says we should ignore experts.

Health Care is an issue and only one candidate in this debate displayed a grasp of past policy, its challenges, and direction.

Affordable Housing was a topic. One candidate spoke to tax breaks to 1st time home buyers. The other blamed illegal immigrants, who apparently are the reason for most of America’s problems.

Gun violence was a topic and one candidate’s solution is to make schools a fortress and pin it on mental health. The other pointed to the actual availability of guns.

Democracy was a topic and one candidate still won’t admit he lost in 2020.
 
CrazyNotCrazie said:
Vance might have been ahead then he blew it at the end with Jan. 6. The average American thinks that was a horrible day and that Trump is being a baby not admitting he lost. Vance probably could have threaded the needle on that better than he did. Walz could have gone after Trump harder and called out more of Vance's lies (though they weren't as egregious as expected) without appearing totally obsessed.

I still do not understand the Republican obsession with migrants. Everything comes down to migrants. Who is going to build all of the new homes they are talking about?
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Some average Americans think that. Some think it was a great day for patriotism. If all average Americans thought it was a bad day, Trump wouldn't be the nominee.
 
On substance I personally thought one side was an A and the other was a D-

When I say it was a draw, I'm looking at it through the lens of the undecideds in the middle. If there are any left...
 
CameronBornAndBred said:
Some average Americans think that. Some think it was a great day for patriotism. If all average Americans thought it was a bad day, Trump wouldn't be the nominee.
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Agreed. But when I read some of the awful interviews with "undecideds," there seem to be many who say "I kind of like Trump but I really hate how he won't admit he lost. And January 6 was horrible."

Walz did well with this and let Vance largely dig his own grave, but he could have leaned into it more. Talk more about teaching his students and football players how to lose graciously (he did mention this a bit but not enough). And how only losers can't admit they lost. They really need to push the theme of Trump as a loser to offset this image of his empty bravado being manly and good for America.
 
CrazyNotCrazie said:
Agreed. But when I read some of the awful interviews with "undecideds," there seem to be many who say "I kind of like Trump but I really hate how he won't admit he lost. And January 6 was horrible."

Walz did well with this and let Vance largely dig his own grave, but he could have leaned into it more. Talk more about teaching his students and football players how to lose graciously (he did mention this a bit but not enough). And how only losers can't admit they lost. They really need to push the theme of Trump as a loser to offset this image of his empty bravado being manly and good for America.
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"Dick Cheney calls this man the greatest threat to democracy in 258 years. Dont take mine or Kamala's word. Take Dick Cheney's word. Or Mike Pence's word. Or all the many people who served under Trump and all say the same thing. This man can never be allowed in the White House again"

He did miss some opportunities tonight.
 
I thought they both did better than I expected

But Vance and I must have lived in alternate universes from 2016 to 2020. In my universe Trump did not heroically save the affordable care act, there was not global peace, and we did not have a peaceful transfer of power. Abby Phillip just called it “laundering Trumpism for middle America” which is a great description. I can’t believe what I was listening too.
 
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