2024 U.S. Presidential election

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Did I miss this? Don't see a mention of it in this thread. Erin Burnett covering a story that appeared on RollingStone.com of a slain American soldier, born of Mexican parents, female who was killed by a fellow soldier in 2020 at Fort Hood, her burial covered by the military, with assurances directly from Trump:

From RS posted today:
Guillén was the daughter of Mexican immigrants, but was born in Houston and thus an American citizen. Her parents were invited to the White House for a televised meeting with Trump, who promised that he would help “financially” with the funeral. Given the attention surrounding her murder, a public memorial service was held for Guillén, followed by a smaller burial attended by members of Houston’s city government.

When informed that the total costs amounted to $60,000, Trump was incensed. “It doesn’t cost 60,000 bucks to bury a f/u/c/k=ing Mexican!” he reportedly told his then Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. “Don’t pay it!”

(I added the spacing to defeat the wankerizer, feeling this should be as direct a quotation as possible.) Yeah, I'm going to pull the lever for that guy who throws away taxpayer money by the bushel basket on his golf outings. J.H.C folks, is this real???
 
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CameronBlue said:
Did I miss this? Don't see a mention of it in this thread. Erin Burnett covering a story that appeared on RollingStone.com of a slain American soldier, born of Mexican parents, female who was killed by a fellow soldier in 2020 at Fort Hood, her burial covered by the military, with assurances directly from Trump:

From RS posted today:
Guillén was the daughter of Mexican immigrants, but was born in Houston and thus an American citizen. Her parents were invited to the White House for a televised meeting with Trump, who promised that he would help “financially” with the funeral. Given the attention surrounding her murder, a public memorial service was held for Guillén, followed by a smaller burial attended by members of Houston’s city government.

When informed that the total costs amounted to $60,000, Trump was incensed. “It doesn’t cost 60,000 bucks to bury a f/u/c/k=ing Mexican!” he reportedly told his then Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. “Don’t pay it!”

(I added the spacing to defeat the wankerizer, feeling this should be as direct a quotation as possible.) Yeah, I'm going to pull the lever for that guy who throws away taxpayer money by the bushel basket on his golf outings. J.H.C folks, is this real???
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Classic Trump. Grifter and Cheapskate in Chief.
 
Stray Gator said:
I never called anyone "deplorable." Nor did I claim any "superiority." Your words, not mine.

Again, I dispute your premise that Donald Trump is no different today than he was 8 years ago. He is indisputably older. His increasingly frequent misstatements and incidents of bizarre behavior indicate that his mental acuity and self-control are diminishing. His repeated vows to use the power of the Presidency, including mobilizing the national armed forces, to exact revenge against American citizens that he believes have opposed him -- in the political arena and in the media -- reveal a growing disregard for traditionally honored constitutional safeguards, including the separation of powers and First Amendment freedoms. His promises to slash taxes, impose new tariffs, and deport millions of immigrants, naturalized as well as undocumented, have been assessed by expert economists of all persuasions as disastrous for the economy. And, of course, he is now a convicted felon.

You may choose to regard these changes as immaterial, or dismiss his threats as idle, baseless bluster. A number of people who have worked directly with him in the previous administration and know him better than any of us believe he should be taken seriously. On the other hand, you may find his proposed objectives and methods for achieving those results to be desirable goals. In either case, I believe that for whatever positives Trump supporters may find in his message, the things he promises to do and the way he proposes to govern in a second term are irreconcilable with what I have always understood to be the basic values on which American democracy was founded and has thrived for more than two centuries: Individual liberty to express ourselves and worship and live and love as we choose, not just in the way that some governmental authorities approve; due process and equal justice -- and equal opportunity -- under the law for all, not merely for those who occupy a favored status; and a presumption of respect for the rights of others, even when they look or speak or worship differently from those who rule or who constitute the majority. I find it impossible to discern how Trump's vision can be deemed consistent with any of those values.
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I don’t think this is a different Donald Trump. I think it’s more accurate to describe what we have seen in this campaign as a distilled version of him. His essential qualities laid bare with much, much less inhibition.
 
richardjackson199 said:
We can agree to disagree.

Kamala Harris likes to point out that she is not Donald Trump. And she is not Joe Biden. Using the same logic, the Donald Trump who took office in January 2017 is the same Donald Trump who is running for President today. I mean he is. :) The fact that he now has more experience as a President is not a bad thing for me. Comparing juxtaposed 4 year track records is not a faulty premise. You are entitled to your opinion on what issues are most important to you to determine your vote. But others are entitled to their opinions. Who are you to say what the real issue is that other voters should be weighing? People are free to weigh the issues for themselves. Their opinions are just as valid as yours. If Packman's mother in law with dementia wants to vote for Harris because she thinks Trump says mean things, that is a perfectly valid reason If 80+ million people saw Trump serve as President for 4 years and estimate that he is qualified to act as Commander in Chief based on the job he did before, well that is their absolute prerogative.

You are free to use whatever catastrophic thinking you would like in terms of predicting the future of what another "ominous" Trump Presidency will mean. I remember similar predictions when he ran the first time. I was told that he would start a war with North Korea. Yet he immediately made peace with them. I was told that he would get our country involved in all sorts of world wars. Yet the world was at peace during his 4 year term. The last 4 years under Biden-Harris - not so much. Case in point - Russia/Ukraine. Donald Trump's administration brokered multiple peace deals like the Abraham accords between Israel and Islamic nations like the U.A.E., Sudan, Morocco, etc. Contrast that with the horrific war in the middle east during the Biden Harris administration.

You're right - you are under no obligation to refrain from questioning the values of others who see things differently than you, who see issues differently than you, and who vote differently from you. If you want to judge me and the 80+ million other people in this country who aren't voting like you are, well maybe that says more about you than us.

But feel free to look at all the likes and glowing praise of your rebuke "son-ing" me in your echo chamber with your selectively enforced rules as further validation of your superiority to us deplorables.
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Do you feel democracy isn’t at stake? That the fears are unwarranted?

Do you prefer autocracy or prefer a different form of government?

Do you think the rhetoric of using the military against our citizens is just hyperbole, that he doesn’t mean it? Or do you feel that is needed and good policy?

Same with mass deportation. Warranted? Something you want or just rhetoric, but not a serious proposal?

Do you agree with the basics of Project 2025?

Honest and sincere questions hoping for honest and sincere answers and dialogue.
 
tommy said:
I don’t think this is a different Donald Trump. I think it’s more accurate to describe what we have seen in this campaign as a distilled version of him. His essential qualities laid bare with much, much less inhibition.
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I agree. This Trump seems very recognizable to me from what we have seen over the last 10 years. Trump has always been unfit for office. The aging attack has always felt like reaching.
 
richardjackson199 said:
I would also ask the mods that you stop comparing 80+Million Trump voters to Nazi's.
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Unfortunately Doc, those people are supporting Trump….publicly. Since that support isn’t being denounced, it’s at minimum guilt by association if not at least an implicit endorsement. The old southern saying of lying down with dogs. There is an American tragedy in the fact that at both official and unofficial Trump rallies you are as likely to see the flag of the Confederacy and the Third Riech and Trump as you are Old Glory. Venders are selling them. No one said freedom is necessary pretty depending on one’s point of view. Yes there are extremist on the left side but their modus operandi is to sabotage their own candidate. Everyone is free to vote the way they see best represents their beliefs and perceptions. Honestly, no one should be forced to justify it if they don’t want to. Just know other people you don’t like share it. One can ignore it or acknowledge it or accept it or embrace it. It doesn’t matter the association is still there.

BTW: Shouldn’t you be studying for the boards. 😀
 
www.nytimes.com

As Election Nears, Kelly Warns Trump Would Rule Like a Dictator

John Kelly, the Trump White House’s longest-serving chief of staff, said that he believed that Donald Trump met the definition of a fascist.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

What I just sent to a large group of my friends with whom I am on a gigantic text thread. These are high school friends. And I love them. But this is painful for me:

Does it not bother any of you that the very people who worked with Trump think he is akin to Hitler? These are military men. Conservative men to their core. You can feel how you want about the economy and not like Democratic policies. That's fine. But Trump is dangerous. Kamala isn't dangerous. You may think she is inept. But y'all won't go to jail if she is elected. People like me might if he gets his way. And you can say it won't get that far. And it probably won't. But that is what Trump wants. Are y'all ok with ME being an enemy of the state? Me? My family? I wouldn't support a Democrat who was doing or saying this stuff. I wouldn't do it. It scares me that gas and eggs are more important than me.
 
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Kdogg said:
Unfortunately Doc, those people are supporting Trump….publicly. Since that support isn’t being denounced, it’s at minimum guilt by association if not at least an implicit endorsement. The old southern saying of lying down with dogs. There is an American tragedy in the fact that at both official and unofficial Trump rallies you are as likely to see the flag of the Confederacy and the Third Riech and Trump as you are Old Glory. Venders are selling them. No one said freedom is necessary pretty depending on one’s point of view. Yes there are extremist on the left side but their modus operandi is to sabotage their own candidate. Everyone is free to vote the way they see best represents their beliefs and perceptions. Honestly, no one should be forced to justify it if they don’t want to. Just know other people you don’t like share it. One can ignore it or acknowledge it or accept it or embrace it. It doesn’t matter the association is still there.

BTW: Shouldn’t you be studying for the boards. 😀
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Absolutely. And I'm taking steps to make sure that gets moved higher on the priority list. Thanks for the reminder! :)
 
BandAlum83 said:
Do you feel democracy isn’t at stake? That the fears are unwarranted?

Do you prefer autocracy or prefer a different form of government?

Do you think the rhetoric of using the military against our citizens is just hyperbole, that he doesn’t mean it? Or do you feel that is needed and good policy?

Same with mass deportation. Warranted? Something you want or just rhetoric, but not a serious proposal?

Do you agree with the basics of Project 2025?

Honest and sincere questions hoping for honest and sincere answers and dialogue.
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I would enjoy an honest, respectful and polite conversation of what I believe, value, and why I would choose to vote the way I am. Respectfully, I don't believe this is a venue where I would be able to have such a conversation. I would more likely continue to be insulted and baited.

I believe we are making our decisions on very different assumptions. For example, Trump has repeated time and time again that he has nothing to do with Project 2025 and asked them to remove his name or any association with it. You are free to say he is lying and that is his agenda. I am free to take him at his word that it isn't.

Of course I also do not prefer an autocracy. The fact that you honestly and sincerely feel the need to ask me that tells me that I probably need to stop right here.

I am going to keep my accounts active until after the Nov 5 election is decided so that I can settle my bet with @Steven43 . But regardless of that outcome, at that point I'm going to ask jk to de-activate my DBR account and also my wife's beergoddess account. I no longer wish to be a part of this community.

I wish all of you the best
 
The cooling off period for this thread will last until Tuesday. On that day, with one week to go until the national vote, we will reopen the thread.

There will be new rules posted in the meantime. The mods are still working on them. One important note is that any and all infractions earned in this thread -- no matter how innocent it seems -- will carry double the usual number of "points" and will result in an immediate suspension of posting ability for the violator. That suspension will last for at least one full week but could be longer.

Put another way, cross the line once, and you will be done until the votes have all been cast.
 
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