2024-2025 Men’s Basketball Season: General Offseason Discussion

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Every year we have candidates who can contribute heavily if they can come off the bench and hit some shots, call it the Joey Baker position. Joey couldn't get it going, but the opportunity is always there for someone to excel...
 
I'm glad Rothstein thinks Kon is quick enough to guard ACC 2s, but for now I'm going with the theory that Scheyer wanted a super competitive scrimmage and needed two opposing PGs - Proctor and Foster.

I've still got my starting 5 as Proctor, Foster, Kon, Flagg, Khaman.

When I saw Harris play in the tournament of champions in the spring, I thought to myself, this kid may be the best shooter in college basketball. Now 8-8 in the first official scrimmage of the year? He may be challenging Sion and Evans for rotation minutes... I don't think you can sit him.
 
SkyBrickey said:
I'm glad Rothstein thinks Kon is quick enough to guard ACC 2s, but for now I'm going with the theory that Scheyer wanted a super competitive scrimmage and needed two opposing PGs - Proctor and Foster.

I've still got my starting 5 as Proctor, Foster, Kon, Flagg, Khaman.

When I saw Harris play in the tournament of champions in the spring, I thought to myself, this kid may be the best shooter in college basketball. Now 8-8 in the first official scrimmage of the year? He may be challenging Sion and Evans for rotation minutes... I don't think you can sit him.
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It isn't surprising that Rothstein's projected starting lineup is what's getting the most engagement, but something tells me it was in part "click bait" designed specifically to do just that, haha. If Kon starts over Foster rather than on the wing (instead of Gillis), that tells me that either the Kon hype train is still undervaluing him to the point that he's supplanted one of only two returners, and a 5* who had an overall successful first season at that.

That said (and I mentioned this on my last visit to the podcast), I actually think Kon will be better suited to guarding 2s than 3s early in his career. Against the typical ACC 2 he'll obviously be giving up some footspeed, but he'll have a major size advantage that he can use to offset that if he plays smart. How many times have we seen our own skilled guards get frustrated by less athletic, but bigger, defenders who bump them out of the paint? Against a typical ACC 3 he'll probably still be at a speed deficit, but have less (if any) of a size advantage. I know it's counterintuitive, and it wouldn't work at the NBA level, but I think it would at the college level, particularly with guys like Cooper and Khaman behind him.

I do love that our desperation for the offseason to end has gotten us to the point that we're now trying to find minutes for the guy we almost universally projected to be our 10th or 11th man. It's certainly more fun to play that hypothetical game than worry about finding 5 guys to put on the floor, but do we really think one hot shooting performance means he's going to challenge the human tank that is Sion James for minutes in the physical ACC? I think it bodes well for his future, but he's still got a huge mountain to climb to be a major contributor this year.
 
scottdude8 said:
It isn't surprising that Rothstein's projected starting lineup is what's getting the most engagement, but something tells me it was in part "click bait" designed specifically to do just that, haha. If Kon starts over Foster rather than on the wing (instead of Gillis), that tells me that either the Kon hype train is still undervaluing him to the point that he's supplanted one of only two returners, and a 5* who had an overall successful first season at that.

That said (and I mentioned this on my last visit to the podcast), I actually think Kon will be better suited to guarding 2s than 3s early in his career. Against the typical ACC 2 he'll obviously be giving up some footspeed, but he'll have a major size advantage that he can use to offset that if he plays smart. How many times have we seen our own skilled guards get frustrated by less athletic, but bigger, defenders who bump them out of the paint? Against a typical ACC 3 he'll probably still be at a speed deficit, but have less (if any) of a size advantage. I know it's counterintuitive, and it wouldn't work at the NBA level, but I think it would at the college level, particularly with guys like Cooper and Khaman behind him.

I do love that our desperation for the offseason to end has gotten us to the point that we're now trying to find minutes for the guy we almost universally projected to be our 10th or 11th man. It's certainly more fun to play that hypothetical game than worry about finding 5 guys to put on the floor, but do we really think one hot shooting performance means he's going to challenge the human tank that is Sion James for minutes in the physical ACC? I think it bodes well for his future, but he's still got a huge mountain to climb to be a major contributor this year.
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Always enjoy your posts Scott. Maybe Kon is just as suited to guard RJ Davis as Ian Jackson. But with this team, you could also imagine Proctor guarding Davis, Cooper coming out on Jackson, and Kon covering the slower Cade Tyson or Withers at the PF. In today's modern offenses, these guys are getting switched off on screens constantly anyway, so it almost doesn't matter who you start on. Our size across the board and ability to guard anyone should be a great strength of our defense.

I've been in the camp that Harris would be our 10th man, play very few minutes and then come back and star as a sophomore. But I do think there's a chance he is an absolutely elite shooter, 50ish% from 3, who forces himself into the lineup ahead of Sion and Isaiah. What I also saw in the spring that made me say, wow, was that when the defense closed out hard on him, he drove to the basket with his head up and seemed very comfortable either dunking the ball or dishing for an easy basket. A very mature game for a HS senior...

I'll still go with Proctor, Foster, James sharing the bulk of the minutes at the 1/2. But I think there's a helluva competition taking place in practice right now. Will Jon go with a 7.5 man rotation and leave some guys disappointed? Or will he go 40-minutes-of-hell and play 9.5 guys?
 
SkyBrickey said:
Always enjoy your posts Scott. Maybe Kon is just as suited to guard RJ Davis as Ian Jackson. But with this team, you could also imagine Proctor guarding Davis, Cooper coming out on Jackson, and Kon covering the slower Cade Tyson or Withers at the PF. In today's modern offenses, these guys are getting switched off on screens constantly anyway, so it almost doesn't matter who you start on. Our size across the board and ability to guard anyone should be a great strength of our defense.

I've been in the camp that Harris would be our 10th man, play very few minutes and then come back and star as a sophomore. But I do think there's a chance he is an absolutely elite shooter, 50ish% from 3, who forces himself into the lineup ahead of Sion and Isaiah. What I also saw in the spring that made me say, wow, was that when the defense closed out hard on him, he drove to the basket with his head up and seemed very comfortable either dunking the ball or dishing for an easy basket. A very mature game for a HS senior...

I'll still go with Proctor, Foster, James sharing the bulk of the minutes at the 1/2. But I think there's a helluva competition taking place in practice right now. Will Jon go with a 7.5 man rotation and leave some guys disappointed? Or will he go 40-minutes-of-hell and play 9.5 guys?
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I am not a big rankings guy, but I know you are SkyB. Players in Darren's range rarely get significant minutes at Duke as a freshman, and prior players did not have to face the amount of competition that Darren would.

Is Darren going to surpass Kon? You remember Kon and Isaiah were ranked the same coming into Duke.
 
azzefkram said:
I am not a big rankings guy, but I know you are SkyB. Players in Darren's range rarely get significant minutes at Duke as a freshman, and prior players did not have to face the amount of competition that Darren would.

Is Darren going to surpass Kon? You remember Kon and Isaiah were ranked the same coming into Duke.
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Are you sure you aren't the rankings guy? 😁

All the reasons why I think Darren will likely be our 9th or 10th man. But if so, he will be the best 10th man in the country. No awards for that unfortunately...
 
cato said:
Could be some jewelry, though.
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SkyBrickey said:
Are you sure you aren't the rankings guy? 😁

All the reasons why I think Darren will likely be our 9th or 10th man. But if so, he will be the best 10th man in the country. No awards for that unfortunately...
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Grayson Allen found a role in 2015.

Darren is about the same size and shoots well from outside. Could be a good fellow to have around.
 
roywhite said:
Grayson Allen found a role in 2015.

Darren is about the same size and shoots well from outside. Could be a good fellow to have around.
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Grayson was 24th in his class, a very good athlete, played on a team with only 8 scholarship players, and averaged about 8 minutes per game.

Given that Darren is a lower ranked player, not as athletic as Grayson, and faces a more crowded roster I would be surprised if he saw the floor outside of garbage time. He is an intriguing prospect that does not profile as a rotation player as a freshman.
 
azzefkram said:
Grayson was 24th in his class, a very good athlete, played on a team with only 8 scholarship players, and averaged about 8 minutes per game.

Given that Darren is a lower ranked player, not as athletic as Grayson, and faces a more crowded roster I would be surprised if he saw the floor outside of garbage time. He is an intriguing prospect that does not profile as a rotation player as a freshman.
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Talk about the "average" being misleading. I was in Indy and we were losing by 8 or 9 against the Oompah Badgers. I shouted, "Why is Grayson in the game, and why is Okafor on the bench?" I gleefully learned.

BTW, the Oompahs had the worst pep band in all of creation. Must have had 5 or 6 tubas and baritones. Give me some jazz!!
 
azzefkram said:
Grayson was 24th in his class, a very good athlete, played on a team with only 8 scholarship players, and averaged about 8 minutes per game.
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The only reason we were down to 8 players is because Suliamon got dismissed from the team; otherwise it's likely Allen never cracks the rotation. But I agree that Allen was much more highly rated than Harris. He wasn't just a "very good" athlete, he won the McD dunk contest and was physically ready for the college level, which I'm not sure will be as true for Harris. I'm rooting for him but have a hard time seeing him play a bigger role than Power, Schutt or O'Connell as a freshman.
 
sagegrouse said:
Talk about the "average" being misleading. I was in Indy and we were losing by 8 or 9 against the Oompah Badgers. I shouted, "Why is Grayson in the game, and why is Okafor on the bench?" I gleefully learned.

BTW, the Oompahs had the worst pep band in all of creation. Must have had 5 or 6 tubas and baritones. Give me some jazz!!
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Grayson picked a great time to have a great game but unless you believe that K was intentionally not playing Grayson during the season in some 3-D chess move the average isn't misleading at all.
 
azzefkram said:
Grayson was 24th in his class, a very good athlete, played on a team with only 8 scholarship players, and averaged about 8 minutes per game.

Given that Darren is a lower ranked player, not as athletic as Grayson, and faces a more crowded roster I would be surprised if he saw the floor outside of garbage time. He is an intriguing prospect that does not profile as a rotation player as a freshman.
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Azz, I can't believe you're making me type this out, but as you know the ranking services aren't perfect. Reed Sheppard was the #33 RSCI recruit and went on to average 20 ppg at Kentucky and was the #3 pick in the NBA draft.

CFos and Proctor were raving about Harris in the pod and then he goes out and drops 8-8 from 3 in the first scrimmage and has Rothstein saying he will play THIS year.

I'm not ready to say that, but the kid is an absolutely elite shooter. Just like Kon, you can't pre-judge these guys before they get here and show what they can do. There's a possibility he could play his way into the top 8...
 
I wouldn't mind seeing this to start off the year. From the talks on the podcast they plan on playing fast and pressuring teams full court at times. Scheyer also wants to shoot more 3 and have guys who can shoot surrounded by Flagg. You have to have a deep rotation and be conditioned to do this. This tells me a few things. I think Ngbongo may be the 11th man and play sparingly due to injury concerns he will see more time against bigger teams. I think you can run 9-10 deep and play guys 22 minutes per game. This gets everyone on the floor especially to start the year to get the lineups sorted out. Now obviously when the games close you play your core 5 more minutes but it could work. I don't think anyone needs to be playing more than 30. Obviously your most minutes will be most likely from Flagg and Proctor. Maluach will probally be closer to 15-18 and same with Brown. Here is how I see it being sorted out.
Maluach -15
Brown -15
Gills -18
Harris-15
Evans-15
Sion-20
Foster-22
Flagg-28
Proctor-28
Kon-18
Ngbongo-6
 
SkyBrickey said:
Azz, I can't believe you're making me type this out, but as you know the ranking services aren't perfect. Reed Sheppard was the #33 RSCI recruit and went on to average 20 ppg at Kentucky and was the #3 pick in the NBA draft.

CFos and Proctor were raving about Harris in the pod and then he goes out and drops 8-8 from 3 in the first scrimmage and has Rothstein saying he will play THIS year.

I'm not ready to say that, but the kid is an absolutely elite shooter. Just like Kon, you can't pre-judge these guys before they get here and show what they can do. There's a possibility he could play his way into the top 8...
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Sheppard is the exception rather than the rule. Simeon Wilcher was two spots ahead of Sheppard and played about 8 minutes per game for a non-tourney St. John's. Dennis Evans was one spot ahead and glued to the bench for a dreadful Louisville team. Gavin Griffiths was two spots after Sheppard and somehow played about 18 minutes per game for Rutgers while shooting .37/.28/.60.

You say pre-judging. I say managing expectations based on a mountain of historical evidence and not overreacting to a single biased data point. There is a possibility that Darren could play his way into the top 8. There is also a possibility that I could be named the next head coach of Duke basketball. Neither is terribly realistic.
 
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