Strategy Discussions: rotations, play calling, roster management, and more

scottdude8

scottdude8

Moderator, front page and podcast contributor
ClemmonsDevil said:
Counterpoint: it isn't tone policing to point out that people who want to second guess the coaches/plays/defensive strategies aren't possibly capable of knowing this information. Y'all constantly second guess the coaches even though you aren't at practice and have never actually coached big time basketball. Y'all constantly second guess the coaches and get pissed when we second guess YOU.

It is fine if this is how you experience Fandom. Just don't be fragile enough when someone points out y'all aren't experts when you make these cocksure proclamations. Make em all you want. Feel free to criticize. But then be open to criticism.

[Edit: happy to share my receipts if you PM me. I enjoy discussing this stuff. If you have receipts about your basketball knowledge, PM me.]
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ClemmonsDevil said:
I have an idea. What if the closet GMs/basketball coaching savants had a thread where they could post about what plays should be run on offense. What defensive strategy the coaches should employ. Like not kidding at all. Y'all make one of those threads for football and basketball. Y'all have a minutes thread. And a wordle thread. You have an awful announcers thread where you can complain about Bilas. I don't participate in those threads. Don't read em. Not interested. At all. Please do that. Again. Not kidding. I would love to not have to read what y'all think about this stuff. And y'all would love not to read me telling you that you aren't qualified. Please someone make these threads.
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@ClemmonsDevil had this fantastic idea in the Auburn postgame thread, and as a mod I'm using my prerogative to make it a reality :)

DBR is a welcoming community for all Duke fans, but that means we all execute that fandom differently. An unfortunate reality of communicating via message board is that discussions along the lines of "Why isn't [[INSERT NAME HERE]] playing?" or "Why didn't Coach Scheyer do [[INSERT PLAY HERE]]?" can end up dominating threads, at time derailing other ongoing conversations. We want to find a balance between maintaining existing conversations and the general tone of the board that's been around for a decade plus with the more than justified desire by some to have discussions centered around these critiques. I think the compromise solution is to give such critiques their own designated place, so that those who wish to participate in those conversations can, and those that don't can steer clear of them.

So, moving forward, this will be the place for such posts, NOT THE PREGAME/POSTGAME THREADS. If you think Coach Scheyer should've played Big Pat against a team with a big front-court and want to explain why you're right, this is the place to do so. If you saw something wrong with the offensive play calling and have a suggestion, this is the place for it. If you think a player could improve a certain element of their game, bring it up here.

I recognize the above may sound sarcastic if you read it with a certain tone. It 100% is NOT intended to be. I sincerely think having a designated place for these type of discussions, for those who choose to engage in them, is the middle ground we've been searching for to restore the "friendly neighborhood" atmosphere around here that's been a bit tenuous in the early stages of this season.

Let's go crazy.
 
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scottdude8 said:
Let's go crazy.
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Great idea!

If any of the mods don't have a life, you could go through the Auburn post game thread and move or copy the appropriate posts here to "prime the pump"

And no, I'm not volunteering.

It may or may not make it easier/better if we created such a topic after each game, such as the player of the game vote, rather than one continuous thread.
 
kcduke75 said:
Great idea!

If any of the mods don't have a life, you could go through the Auburn post game thread and move or copy the appropriate posts here to "prime the pump"

And no, I'm not volunteering.

It may or may not make it easier/better if we created such a topic after each game, such as the player of the game vote, rather than one continuous thread.
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While I DO have a life, I also need to "hit refresh" on my brain occasionally at work, which I typically do by going to DBR ;) I'll see if I can't do some of that clean up, and if not on this thread I'll try to in others in the future.
 
Two suggestions:

1) Broaden the scope of the thread beyond coaching decisions. There are all kinds of other things some people critique and others reject critique of.

2) If other threads are declared to be critique-free zones, this one should be a thread in which the disparaging the concept of critique is not welcome. That is, disagreement with a critique seems appropriate, but rejection or mockery of an interest in discussing things that could be better or different does not.
 
Western said:
Two suggestions:

1) Broaden the scope of the thread beyond coaching decisions. There are all kinds of other things some people critique and others reject critique of.

2) If other threads are declared to be critique-free zones, this one should be a thread in which the disparaging the concept of critique is not welcome. That is, disagreement with a critique seems appropriate, but rejection or mockery of an interest in discussing things that could be better or different does not.
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I appreciate your input here. I consciously do not want to expand the scope of the thread because "player bashing" is explicitly against the code of conduct of the thread, and following your suggestion #1 would leave us dangerously close to inviting that type of behavior. That said, your point #2 is very well-taken, and it's my hope that is what will come of this designated thread.
 
Western said:
Two suggestions:

1) Broaden the scope of the thread beyond coaching decisions. There are all kinds of other things some people critique and others reject critique of.

2) If other threads are declared to be critique-free zones, this one should be a thread in which the disparaging the concept of critique is not welcome. That is, disagreement with a critique seems appropriate, but rejection or mockery of an interest in discussing things that could be better or different does not.
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Agree with both of your points. From post-game thread: "I just detest having to read doctors, lawyers, and business folks opine about (basketball decisions). There are people capable of offering critical appraisal. They just aren't it."

Scott - saw your reply about risk of player bashing. For sure that should be off limits. I do think there are areas beyond "coaching decisions" that could be relevant for this thread.

Thanks for setting this up.
 
scottdude8 said:
@ClemmonsDevil had this fantastic idea in the Auburn postgame thread, and as a mod I'm using my prerogative to make it a reality :)

So, moving forward, this will be the place for such posts, NOT THE PREGAME/POSTGAME THREADS.
If you think Coach Scheyer should've played Big Pat against a team with a big front-court and want to explain why you're right, this is the place to do so. If you saw something wrong with the offensive play calling and have a suggestion, this is the place for it.
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scottdude8 said:
Let's go crazy.
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Obviously, Throatybeard needs to update the Handy Pocket Reference. The link in the stickied threads doesn't work, but I have a copy of it stored on my computer. I'll copy it and post below. 9F lives on forever!
 
Elliot Williams should have been moved into the starting lineup sooner.

Michael Gbinije should have gotten more playing time.

Avery should have gotten more of Wojo's minutes defending Wayne Turner.

Zion should have gotten the ball instead of RJ.

Am I doing this right?
 
This could make the post game thread more pleasant. I go to the post game excited after a big win to get another hit of enthusiasm, not to have a wet blanket thrown on me on the first page. Thanks!
 
Throaty's Handy Pocket Reference 2007

Note: There is a 15,000 character limit on posts. Who knew? So this is part 1.

This is the last version I have saved on my computer!

Throatybeard’s DBR Manifesto/Pocket Reference
–
Read this and you can avoid having to actually read similar posted comments!
1) Koaching Koncerns
a) Krzyzewski’s management of the rotation will bite us/has bitten us in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..
b) We have no bench.
c) [Player X who transferred away] sure would help us right now. (Related to a.)
d) I’m worried that [player] will transfer. (Related to a.)
e) Krzyzewski’s management of the clock (AKA stall ball) will bite us/has bitten us in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..
f) Krzyzewski loves guards too much; we need a real big man coach besides Wojo, of at least ‘6-10” himself. (AKA small ball)
g) Why can’t we rebound? (related to f.)
h) Why won’t Krzyzewski schedule [any true road games/better opponents/games close to my house/team we used to play]
i) Who will Krzyzewski start next year? (ad nauseam for 7 months)
j) Ohmigod, what will we do when Krzyzewski retires?!?! (AKA next coach speculation)
k) Kwit komplaining about K. He has won three more national championships than you have. His strategies succeed in infinitely more komplex ways than your minuscule brain can komprehend.
l) Why doesn’t [Duke big man] assert himself more, and does/how does Krzyzewski’s coaching style contribute to [big man’s perceived] wussyness?
m) I think we shoot way too many damn threes!
n) We don’t take enough mid-range shots.
o) Our shot selection sucks in general; we take too many contested/long/off balance shots.
p) Our point guard is too turn-over prone; why doesn’t Koach do anything about that?
q) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski save his timeouts like Dean did?
r) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski call a timeout to set up the game-final possession?
s) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski make us practice foul shots more; FTs are really biting us in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..
t) Hey, I think we should play some zone--why don’t we ever do that?

2) They are all against me! They all must die!
a) Some yahoo columnist at [Publication] said something nasty about us. Let’s teach him a lesson by bombing his inbox!
b) Jay Bilas is a traitor for not talking us up enough. His whole discourse is a secret code of cracks on our players and program.
c) Dick Vitale talks us up too much and makes everyone hate us even more.
d) [Announcer, usually Elmore or Packer] has a vendetta against us and talks us down.
e) “[Insert name of writer or commentator or internet poster] [misspelled/mispronounced] [insert Duke player’s name] and needs to be set straight. It’s just [sloppy/lazy/unprofessional] for a so-called “journalist” [or fan] to make such a basic mistake, after all.” (AKA, “Who is Sheldon?”)
f) UNC owns the North Carolina media and they’re all [Charlotte writers especially] against us.
g) Those damn Carolina refs.
h) Billy Packer/Len Elmore/ESPN are complicit in the refs disfavoring us in a reactive manner.
i) Here’s why those Maryland hosers are wrong about the refs favoring us
j) Man, the ACC refs sure are inconsistent this year. (Recycle indefinitely).
k) Duke’s best player, usu. a guard] gets rough-housed every year, and the refs never call anything.
l) I’m worried that we’re too soft for loose NCAAT officiating.
m) I’m worried ticky-tack calls/tight officiating on our bigs will doom us in the NCAAT.
n) he NCAAT Committee screwed Duke.
o) The NCAAT Committee purposely massages the brackets to set up potential “interesting” matchups involving Duke.

3) Visual Media Concerns
a) [Network]’s production values suck.
b) [Network]’s announcers suck; (no they don’t—I like that guy!)
c) Do you know of a Duke bar in [locale]?
d) Why isn’t our game on in my market? Let’s have a really, really long discussion about that.

4) Event Attendance
a) How do I get men’s basketball tickets?
b) How do I get tickets to those Christmas games? (3 months after they went on sale)
c) Someone please sell me tickets.
d) My grandmother has 9 kinds of cancer and a parasitic eel living in her brain, and her last wish is to go to the Duke men’s game on [specific weekend].
e) Let me tell you about how much my parking (all sports) or restroom (Wade) experience sucked.
f) Let’s have an incredibly long discussion about who’s going to [neutral site men’s game] and where to eat.
g) When does the men’s basketball schedule come out? (Third Friday in August; stop asking!!!!)
h) How do I get the basketball schedule into my expensive electronic handheld scheduling toy?

5) Aesthetics
a) Our uniforms are/are not ugly.
b) Our [color] uniforms cause X result because the players get more/less confident in them.
c) I just saw this year’s new unis, and man, we really are Nike’s 75 cent whore, aren’t we?
d) Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me.
e) Our football field has a freaking track around it.
f) The Devil mascot needs to look exactly like it did 30, 50, or 70 years ago.
g) We need to wear our school color more, especially at events.
h) That’s not our school color!
i) One time Matt Doherty said our cheerleaders are ugly, so we hate him.
j) [Kid on Duke team, usually most prominent white player] makes me hot.
k) [Female player] is hot; (no she’s not—you’re a sexist pig!)
l) Let me tell you about this really hot cheerleader we had in 19XX; (you’re a sexist pig!) m) Ugliest male players in ACC history.

6) Recruiting
a) We need an athletic wing in the ‘6-6” to ‘6-9” range. (AKA Where have you gone, Mr. Hill?)
b) Duke always outrecruits [school A], or [school B] always outrecruits us. What’s up with that?
c) [New commit, age 17] will lead us to the national championship/be one of Duke’s all-time greats.
d) When will [HS player] decide? I am nervous since he visited and we didn’t get an immediate commitment.
e) When will we get our next commitment?
f) [Recruit] reminds me of [previous Duke player, usu. of same race and somatype, but not necessarily game].
g) I saw [Carolina commit], and he’s not as good as they say he is.
h) Hey, shouldn’t we be recruiting [younger sibling] of [current Duke player]?
i) Krzyzewski has lost his touch and we are missing out on too many top recruits.
j) Krzyzewski needs to stop recruiting “one-and-done” players like [best current big man].
k) Krzyzewski doesn’t recruit enough elite [“one-and-done”] players.
l) Krzyzewski doesn’t recuit enough “athletic” players.

7) Football
a) Our coach sucks/our coach needs more time before determining degree of suckage.
b) Why can Stanford and Northwestern do it, but we can’t?
c) Let’s drop to I-AA or make a private school conference.
d) I’m completely obsessed with BB year round, and these FB threads annoy me. It’s the Duke Basketball Report, people.
e) Hey, is Greg Paulus gonna play football?
f) I have a great idea. Let’s install a trick offense like the option this week. What’s to lose?
g) The only way we’ll ever succeed in football is to pay a name coach an amount equal to the GDP of Poland.
h) Can we get Halliburton to clean up the men’s restrooms in Wallace Wade?
i) The Duke administration gives athletics [read: basketball] too much attention or gives athletics [read: football] too little attention.
j) We need to schedule all the other small I-A private schools.

8) Repetitive Reminiscing
a) Your favorite Duke dunk.
b) Your favorite Duke comeback.
c) Indianapolis/Minneapolis/East Rutherford/Greensboro is great!
d) Tropicana/Rupp/Carrier Dome sucks!
e) The Crazies did this thing one time--it was great! (Usually the same five things mentioned, leading off with Speedo Guy).
f) I have this superstitious thing I do/wear during games; what’s yours?
g) I didn’t do my superstitious thing this time, precipitating a negative result.
h) Remember all the awful things that happened to the winner of our season terminal loss? (AKA The Duke Curse, usu. followed by long discussion of whether the Duke Curse is (1) real or not and (2) funny or not.)
i) Your all-time Duke all-star team.
j) Your ranking of top all-time Duke men’s teams.
k) Let me tell you about this letter Terry Sanford wrote one time. (Usu. stated in a manner as though no one has ever heard of it).
l) This one time, against Wake Forest, Patrick Davidson did something.

9) Rivals
a) Check out how not obsessed we are with Carolina.
b) Check out how not obsessed we are with Maryland.
c) Check out how not obsessed we are with Kentucky.
d) Check out how not obsessed we are with Connecticut.
e) Check out how not obsessed we are with Stanford.
f) Go to hell Carolina. (Repeated ad nauseam).
g) I sure hate Carolina/Maryland/Kentucky/UConn/Stanford; here’s why.
h) Check it out--[school’s] player got in trouble. Nyah nyah nyah.
i) Check it out--[school’s] students got in a riot. Nyah nyah nyah.
j) I never read IC, but did you see what those hosers said about us?
k) We’re so superior to every other online community; here’s why.
l) Dean Smith is a mean old man; here’s why.
m) Your most hated Carolina (or opposing) player.
n) Your favorite Carolina (or opposing) player.

10) The National Basketball [sic] Association
a) Duke pros do NOT suck!
b) I think [Duke player] will achieve [unreasonable expectation] in the NBA. (Usually sanely shot down by Jumbo.)
c) My favorite Duke pro doesn’t get enough PT or isn’t being used correctly by his franchise.
d) Why the NBA does/does not suck.
e) Seemingly interminable draft speculation.
f) [Player X] [should/should not] OR [will/will not, so I’ve heard] declare for the draft, and if they [do/do not] then they’re [stupid/smart]. If [Player X] is a Duke player, then we [wish him well/wish him dead] and don’t understand why folks don’t understand the value of [cash money/a Duke education].
g) Analysis of Krzyzewski’s national team.



 
Part 2


11) And Bill Werber Served the Beer (AKA, the older we get, the better we was; AKA, workhardplayhard)
a) Duke students were cool when I was 20; now they’re all nerds.
b) Nan Keohane ruined Duke by making token concessions to law enforcement re: open distribution to minors.
c) Nan Keohane ruined Duke by putting all the freshmen on East.
d) Douglas Knight ruined Duke by de-emphasizing football.
e) The Cameron Crazies suck now; we were so much cleverer/wilder/more dedicated when I was 20.
f) I have a [usually lame] idea for a cheer for the Crazies! Check it!
g) Why won’t these 20 year olds learn the words to our fight songs? (A: Because the words are lame 1920s clap-trap, that’s why).
h) We didn’t have tents when I was 20, so the kids today shouldn’t have tents.
i) I don’t understand cheer X. Please explain it to me. (Multiple times for same cheer).
j) That retarded “O” thing is great/an abomination. (BTW, everybody, check the Wikipedia article on the Star Spangled Banner and look for Duke).
k) The damn kids don’t support the team any more. Let me explain how much more effective I would be in those stands despite my varicose veins and my mortgage debt.
l) The reason the damn kids don’t support the team anymore is that tenting/bracelet rules are intimidating.

12) Jersey Retirement
a) [Best Duke men’s senior this year, no matter how under qualified] should have his jersey retired. (No he shouldn’t; yes he should!).
b) What are the Jersey Retirement Criteria?
c) I happen to know THE Jersey Retirement Criteria and I will tell you!
d) Dude, are we gonna run out of jersey numbers at some point?
e) Why does Krzyzewski [allegedly] not like 0/00?

13) Self-congratulation/pity
a) Duke just won something. We’re awesome.
b) Duke just lost or barely won something. We suck.
c) Duke just lost something. We’re still awesome, but not quite as awesome as we would have been had Duke won.
d) Duke just got killed. Boy do we ever suck.
e) Remember when we beat/didn’t beat [opponent] back in [year]? Man, was that ever awesome/not awesome/sucky. (Also can be filed under #8, Reminisces)
f) Let’s re-live all our colossal blown leads in the last decade.
g) Here are my Duke fan credentials. What are yours?
h) Can we go undefeated this year?
i) We’re not snobs; we’re just better than everyone else. Ugrad admission rejection %ages are the best metric of divine salvation. US News should rank us even higher. We’re dead sexy.

14) Meta-DBR Board discussion
a) There’s violence inherent within the system. Help help, I’m being oppressed.
b) Censorship, schmensorship. It’s JBJ’s board and they can do what they want with it.
c) The DBR Board used to be better in [insert year]. (Could also be filed under Bill Werber served the beer).
d) Even though we just lost, I’m more annoyed by the sudden emergence of the Screaming Howler Panic Monkeys (SHPaM).
e) Damn you, I’m not a SHPaM!
f) I think the SBBS is the greatest BBS ever. James is God.
g) I think the SBBS is too hard to use what with those crazy codes.
h) What are all of these odd number/letter combos people keep throwing out?
i) Damn, throaty, that pocket reference is the best thing since the Iliad.
j) I think the pocket reference is mean; it reinforces an insider/outsider dynamic. You suck, throaty.

15) Women’s Basketball
a) Goestenkors can’t coach big games.
b) Our team is soft compared to [UNC/UConn/SEC team]
c) [UNC’s toughest player] is the biggest I'm a real wanker for saying this. I'm a real wanker for saying this. in the history of Western Civilization.
d) Sweet tap-dancing Moses, did you see what Sylvia Hatchell was wearing?
e) How do I get tickets to the sold-out [UNC/UTK/UConn] women’s game (1 month after they were sold). I really want to go; it’s the only women’s game I’ve ever been interested in, after all
f) I’ve only seen the two nationally televised games all season, but being an experienced basketball fan I have to say, [player] is simply a liability to this team.
g) My rec-league team of five fortysomething guys could beat a team of five Alana Beards.
h) Wooden says the women’s game is purer, Ha, take that!
i) Women’s BB players shouldn’t have their numbers retired or be considered to have school-wide records because it’s a different sport.
j) Chris Moreland gets no respect, what up?

16) Comestibles
a) Barbecue.
b) New York Delis.
c) Concessions at Wade and Cameron.

Appendix) [Mercifully] Extinct Topics
a) ACC Expansion.
b) Whether or not to bi/tri/quart/quint-furcate the DBR boards.
c) A/C in Cameron.
d) I saw Nick Horvath in summer pick-up, and he’s hitting threes blinfolded in a dark gym with 45-degree slanted rims, he’s put on 50 pounds of muscle, he schooled Boozer/SWilliams, and Angelina Jolie was seen waiting for him after practice, idling in a cherry-colored convertible.
e) JJ Redick and dorsal dermatology. (AKA The T-shirt Discussion).
f) Minute gradations of vocal support needed/not needed by Chris Burgess at the foul line.
g) Daniel Ewing’s flurry of technical fouls.
h) Amateur analysis of Shavlik Randolph’s psyche.
Version – 2007


Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
9F 9F 9F​
 
Western said:
Two suggestions:

1) Broaden the scope of the thread beyond coaching decisions. There are all kinds of other things some people critique and others reject critique of.

2) If other threads are declared to be critique-free zones, this one should be a thread in which the disparaging the concept of critique is not welcome. That is, disagreement with a critique seems appropriate, but rejection or mockery of an interest in discussing things that could be better or different does not.
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Yes. I can't ask for this thread to be here and then critique it. I just don't want to read strategy/game management/coaching critiques after a W. But I am NOT the arbiter of if anyone gets to have these thoughts, or express them. Hopefully this is a great spot for strategy. I am not 100% in love with the title, and think it could be softened a bit. This should be a safe space for people to discuss strategy for football and basketball. And please everyone not interested in that, don't come over here and bash it. I won't
 
ClemmonsDevil said:
Yes. I can't ask for this thread to be here and then critique it. I just don't want to read strategy/game management/coaching critiques after a W. But I am NOT the arbiter of if anyone gets to have these thoughts, or express them. Hopefully this is a great spot for strategy. I am not 100% in love with the title, and think it could be softened a bit. This should be a safe space for people to discuss strategy for football and basketball. And please everyone not interested in that, don't come over here and bash it. I won't
Click to expand...
Good point, I can definitely change that. I can see how the first title could be read as potentially sarcastic.
 
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