Strategy Discussions: rotations, play calling, roster management, and more

Western said:
Two suggestions:

1) Broaden the scope of the thread beyond coaching decisions. There are all kinds of other things some people critique and others reject critique of.

2) If other threads are declared to be critique-free zones, this one should be a thread in which the disparaging the concept of critique is not welcome. That is, disagreement with a critique seems appropriate, but rejection or mockery of an interest in discussing things that could be better or different does not.
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This post is so meta
 
Trajan shouldn't have been the one with the ball at the end to dribble up the length of the court.

Oh... we're talking about Coach Scheyer...

With this team's strength being on defense (#1 kenpom), is it a disservice to be playing at such a slow pace? Or maybe the better question, should this team be playing at a faster pace to help with offensive production and reduce stagnation in the halfcourt? And yes, I do realize we took a huge bump up in offensive efficiency with last night's game.
 
scottdude8 said:
DBR is a welcoming community for all Duke fans, but that means we all execute that fandom differently. An unfortunate reality of communicating via message board is that discussions along the lines of "Why isn't [[INSERT NAME HERE]] playing?" or "Why didn't Coach Scheyer do [[INSERT PLAY HERE]]?" can end up dominating threads, at time derailing other ongoing conversations. We want to find a balance between maintaining existing conversations and the general tone of the board that's been around for a decade plus with the more than justified desire by some to have discussions centered around these critiques. I think the compromise solution is to give such critiques their own designated place, so that those who wish to participate in those conversations can, and those that don't can steer clear of them.

So, moving forward, this will be the place for such posts, NOT THE PREGAME/POSTGAME THREADS. If you think Coach Scheyer should've played Big Pat against a team with a big front-court and want to explain why you're right, this is the place to do so. If you saw something wrong with the offensive play calling and have a suggestion, this is the place for it. If you think a player could improve a certain element of their game, bring it up here.
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FWIW, I edited the opening post a bit based on some of everyone's feedback in case people are curious.
 
How heavy is the moderation going to be on discussing a game, win or lose, in the pre/post game threads? Might be overthinking it but "After his performance against Auburn I hope/would like to see Evans get 15+ minutes against [team]" the kind of post that now shouldn't be in a pregame thread? Similarly "Oof sad to see the last two plays be iso ball in an otherwise good game. Wish we had run something for Kon" is not in bounds for a post-game win or lose?

Or is it more...this is the place for deep conversation/analysis and the above is ok as light seasoning, move discussion and follow up out?
 
rifraf said:
How heavy is the moderation going to be on discussing a game, win or lose, in the pre/post game threads? Might be overthinking it but "After his performance against Auburn I hope/would like to see Evans get 15+ minutes against [team]" the kind of post that now shouldn't be in a pregame thread? Similarly "Oof sad to see the last two plays be iso ball in an otherwise good game. Wish we had run something for Kon" is not in bounds for a post-game win or lose?

Or is it more...this is the place for deep conversation/analysis and the above is ok as light seasoning, move discussion and follow up out?
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Let's not overthink this too much, haha... this will be a learning process, but I think the "you know it when you see it" principle will likely apply. If you want to really dive deep into a particular coaching decision, play, shot, etc. that you think merits critique, it should go here and those discussions can happen in full.

Maybe an example will help. Let's say, as a hypothetical, that Isaiah only gets 5 minutes in Sunday's game at Louisville, although Duke comes away with a convincing win. If you want to dive deep into why Isaiah didn't get more minutes, where you think they would've been useful, why you think that may negatively influence Duke down the line, etc., this would be the place for that discussion. If you want to discuss specific situations or plays that you think could've been run for Isaiah when he was in the game, that should go here. If you want to discuss Isaiah's performance generally in the context of the convincing Duke victory, that can go in the postgame thread.

This is a trial run, folks. Let's just see how this goes. We're trying something new here :)
 
I wonder how Cooper Flagg enjoyed a tight tense game at Cameron with the crowd as loud and into the game as last night
 
I made a longer post in the Auburn Post-Game thread, but in short, dissuading people from discussing strategy on a message board dedicated to Duke basketball seems pretty odd. I for one enjoy the insight I get out of various posters viewpoints and insight into strategic decisions which seem natural extensions of watching a game. Like most things, I think it's as much about "how" we are saying things not "what" we are saying.

Respectfully
 
I think the whole premise behind this thread is silly. If you don't like a post in a thread, speed read it and move on. There is no requirement mandating that you respond.

How about a separate thread for all the rationalization posts? The hyperbole posts deserve their own thread as well.

Before we know our pregame threads will be reduced to I hope/think we win posts and the postgame's will be good game/maybe next time.

If I can learn to behave like an adult, I fairly certain anyone can.
 
psaam said:
I made a longer post in the Auburn Post-Game thread, but in short, dissuading people from discussing strategy on a message board dedicated to Duke basketball seems pretty odd. I for one enjoy the insight I get out of various posters viewpoints and insight into strategic decisions which seem natural extensions of watching a game. Like most things, I think it's as much about "how" we are saying things not "what" we are saying.

Respectfully
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azzefkram said:
I think the whole premise behind this thread is silly. If you don't like a post in a thread, speed read it and move on. There is no requirement mandating that you respond.

How about a separate thread for all the rationalization posts? The hyperbole posts deserve their own thread as well.

Before we know our pregame threads will be reduced to I hope/think we win posts and the postgame's will be good game/maybe next time.

If I can learn to behave like an adult, I fairly certain anyone can.
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Both fair points. This may be a silly exercise that we delete in a week. But I, and others, have noticed that the collective “temperature” has been a bit hotter than we’d like around here of late. This is one, maybe harebrained, attempt at addressing that. I’m of the mindset that I’d rather try, fail, and acknowledge my mistake rather than do nothing to try to make things better.
 
scottdude8 said:
Both fair points. This may be a silly exercise that we delete in a week. But I, and others, have noticed that the collective “temperature” has been a bit hotter than we’d like around here of late. This is one, maybe harebrained, attempt at addressing that. I’m of the mindset that I’d rather try, fail, and acknowledge my mistake rather than do nothing to try to make things better.
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Fair and thoughtful response. Respect to you and the other moderators who put much time into making this the best experience for all.
 
OZZIE4DUKE said:
Throaty's Handy Pocket Reference 2007

Note: There is a 15,000 character limit on posts. Who knew? So this is part 1.

This is the last version I have saved on my computer!

Throatybeard’s DBR Manifesto/Pocket Reference
–
Read this and you can avoid having to actually read similar posted comments!
1) Koaching Koncerns
a) Krzyzewski’s management of the rotation will bite us/has bitten us in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..
b) We have no bench.
c) [Player X who transferred away] sure would help us right now. (Related to a.)
d) I’m worried that [player] will transfer. (Related to a.)
e) Krzyzewski’s management of the clock (AKA stall ball) will bite us/has bitten us in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..
f) Krzyzewski loves guards too much; we need a real big man coach besides Wojo, of at least ‘6-10” himself. (AKA small ball)
g) Why can’t we rebound? (related to f.)
h) Why won’t Krzyzewski schedule [any true road games/better opponents/games close to my house/team we used to play]
i) Who will Krzyzewski start next year? (ad nauseam for 7 months)
j) Ohmigod, what will we do when Krzyzewski retires?!?! (AKA next coach speculation)
k) Kwit komplaining about K. He has won three more national championships than you have. His strategies succeed in infinitely more komplex ways than your minuscule brain can komprehend.
l) Why doesn’t [Duke big man] assert himself more, and does/how does Krzyzewski’s coaching style contribute to [big man’s perceived] wussyness?
m) I think we shoot way too many damn threes!
n) We don’t take enough mid-range shots.
o) Our shot selection sucks in general; we take too many contested/long/off balance shots.
p) Our point guard is too turn-over prone; why doesn’t Koach do anything about that?
q) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski save his timeouts like Dean did?
r) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski call a timeout to set up the game-final possession?
s) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski make us practice foul shots more; FTs are really biting us in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..
t) Hey, I think we should play some zone--why don’t we ever do that?

2) They are all against me! They all must die!
a) Some yahoo columnist at [Publication] said something nasty about us. Let’s teach him a lesson by bombing his inbox!
b) Jay Bilas is a traitor for not talking us up enough. His whole discourse is a secret code of cracks on our players and program.
c) Dick Vitale talks us up too much and makes everyone hate us even more.
d) [Announcer, usually Elmore or Packer] has a vendetta against us and talks us down.
e) “[Insert name of writer or commentator or internet poster] [misspelled/mispronounced] [insert Duke player’s name] and needs to be set straight. It’s just [sloppy/lazy/unprofessional] for a so-called “journalist” [or fan] to make such a basic mistake, after all.” (AKA, “Who is Sheldon?”)
f) UNC owns the North Carolina media and they’re all [Charlotte writers especially] against us.
g) Those damn Carolina refs.
h) Billy Packer/Len Elmore/ESPN are complicit in the refs disfavoring us in a reactive manner.
i) Here’s why those Maryland hosers are wrong about the refs favoring us
j) Man, the ACC refs sure are inconsistent this year. (Recycle indefinitely).
k) Duke’s best player, usu. a guard] gets rough-housed every year, and the refs never call anything.
l) I’m worried that we’re too soft for loose NCAAT officiating.
m) I’m worried ticky-tack calls/tight officiating on our bigs will doom us in the NCAAT.
n) he NCAAT Committee screwed Duke.
o) The NCAAT Committee purposely massages the brackets to set up potential “interesting” matchups involving Duke.

3) Visual Media Concerns
a) [Network]’s production values suck.
b) [Network]’s announcers suck; (no they don’t—I like that guy!)
c) Do you know of a Duke bar in [locale]?
d) Why isn’t our game on in my market? Let’s have a really, really long discussion about that.

4) Event Attendance
a) How do I get men’s basketball tickets?
b) How do I get tickets to those Christmas games? (3 months after they went on sale)
c) Someone please sell me tickets.
d) My grandmother has 9 kinds of cancer and a parasitic eel living in her brain, and her last wish is to go to the Duke men’s game on [specific weekend].
e) Let me tell you about how much my parking (all sports) or restroom (Wade) experience sucked.
f) Let’s have an incredibly long discussion about who’s going to [neutral site men’s game] and where to eat.
g) When does the men’s basketball schedule come out? (Third Friday in August; stop asking!!!!)
h) How do I get the basketball schedule into my expensive electronic handheld scheduling toy?

5) Aesthetics
a) Our uniforms are/are not ugly.
b) Our [color] uniforms cause X result because the players get more/less confident in them.
c) I just saw this year’s new unis, and man, we really are Nike’s 75 cent whore, aren’t we?
d) Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me.
e) Our football field has a freaking track around it.
f) The Devil mascot needs to look exactly like it did 30, 50, or 70 years ago.
g) We need to wear our school color more, especially at events.
h) That’s not our school color!
i) One time Matt Doherty said our cheerleaders are ugly, so we hate him.
j) [Kid on Duke team, usually most prominent white player] makes me hot.
k) [Female player] is hot; (no she’s not—you’re a sexist pig!)
l) Let me tell you about this really hot cheerleader we had in 19XX; (you’re a sexist pig!) m) Ugliest male players in ACC history.

6) Recruiting
a) We need an athletic wing in the ‘6-6” to ‘6-9” range. (AKA Where have you gone, Mr. Hill?)
b) Duke always outrecruits [school A], or [school B] always outrecruits us. What’s up with that?
c) [New commit, age 17] will lead us to the national championship/be one of Duke’s all-time greats.
d) When will [HS player] decide? I am nervous since he visited and we didn’t get an immediate commitment.
e) When will we get our next commitment?
f) [Recruit] reminds me of [previous Duke player, usu. of same race and somatype, but not necessarily game].
g) I saw [Carolina commit], and he’s not as good as they say he is.
h) Hey, shouldn’t we be recruiting [younger sibling] of [current Duke player]?
i) Krzyzewski has lost his touch and we are missing out on too many top recruits.
j) Krzyzewski needs to stop recruiting “one-and-done” players like [best current big man].
k) Krzyzewski doesn’t recruit enough elite [“one-and-done”] players.
l) Krzyzewski doesn’t recuit enough “athletic” players.

7) Football
a) Our coach sucks/our coach needs more time before determining degree of suckage.
b) Why can Stanford and Northwestern do it, but we can’t?
c) Let’s drop to I-AA or make a private school conference.
d) I’m completely obsessed with BB year round, and these FB threads annoy me. It’s the Duke Basketball Report, people.
e) Hey, is Greg Paulus gonna play football?
f) I have a great idea. Let’s install a trick offense like the option this week. What’s to lose?
g) The only way we’ll ever succeed in football is to pay a name coach an amount equal to the GDP of Poland.
h) Can we get Halliburton to clean up the men’s restrooms in Wallace Wade?
i) The Duke administration gives athletics [read: basketball] too much attention or gives athletics [read: football] too little attention.
j) We need to schedule all the other small I-A private schools.

8) Repetitive Reminiscing
a) Your favorite Duke dunk.
b) Your favorite Duke comeback.
c) Indianapolis/Minneapolis/East Rutherford/Greensboro is great!
d) Tropicana/Rupp/Carrier Dome sucks!
e) The Crazies did this thing one time--it was great! (Usually the same five things mentioned, leading off with Speedo Guy).
f) I have this superstitious thing I do/wear during games; what’s yours?
g) I didn’t do my superstitious thing this time, precipitating a negative result.
h) Remember all the awful things that happened to the winner of our season terminal loss? (AKA The Duke Curse, usu. followed by long discussion of whether the Duke Curse is (1) real or not and (2) funny or not.)
i) Your all-time Duke all-star team.
j) Your ranking of top all-time Duke men’s teams.
k) Let me tell you about this letter Terry Sanford wrote one time. (Usu. stated in a manner as though no one has ever heard of it).
l) This one time, against Wake Forest, Patrick Davidson did something.

9) Rivals
a) Check out how not obsessed we are with Carolina.
b) Check out how not obsessed we are with Maryland.
c) Check out how not obsessed we are with Kentucky.
d) Check out how not obsessed we are with Connecticut.
e) Check out how not obsessed we are with Stanford.
f) Go to hell Carolina. (Repeated ad nauseam).
g) I sure hate Carolina/Maryland/Kentucky/UConn/Stanford; here’s why.
h) Check it out--[school’s] player got in trouble. Nyah nyah nyah.
i) Check it out--[school’s] students got in a riot. Nyah nyah nyah.
j) I never read IC, but did you see what those hosers said about us?
k) We’re so superior to every other online community; here’s why.
l) Dean Smith is a mean old man; here’s why.
m) Your most hated Carolina (or opposing) player.
n) Your favorite Carolina (or opposing) player.

10) The National Basketball [sic] Association
a) Duke pros do NOT suck!
b) I think [Duke player] will achieve [unreasonable expectation] in the NBA. (Usually sanely shot down by Jumbo.)
c) My favorite Duke pro doesn’t get enough PT or isn’t being used correctly by his franchise.
d) Why the NBA does/does not suck.
e) Seemingly interminable draft speculation.
f) [Player X] [should/should not] OR [will/will not, so I’ve heard] declare for the draft, and if they [do/do not] then they’re [stupid/smart]. If [Player X] is a Duke player, then we [wish him well/wish him dead] and don’t understand why folks don’t understand the value of [cash money/a Duke education].
g) Analysis of Krzyzewski’s national team.

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9F remains the most relevant and most used

(but 9d has gotten somewhat increased play recently
 
Category 6 needs a lot of revision now that the portal is so active. Also, need a new number for NIL.

All the Coaching Concerns can remain, but K needs to be replaced by S, and we need to add the next concern: Coach S needs to show some passion!. Or Coach S needs to yell at the refs more!. Or Coach S needs to get a technical once in a while!
 
Looking at one of the analytics tools out there, some interesting insights.

Every top lineup (2 man, 3 man, etc.) includes Sion. Caleb shows up only once. If those two players are interchangeable, Sion appears clearly ahead.

Maluach and Brown are substitutes, there are no "good" lineups that include both of them. And of the two, Brown slightly trails offensively but is much better defensively and should be on the court a lot (see below).

Our two best defenders by far are Flagg and Brown. With those two in the mix, we can pick almost any combination of players w/o significantly hurting our D. To me that means experimenting with guys who are more offensively minded, especially Evans and Gillis.

Re: Gillis, not sure if anyone astute has ideas on why he's shooting so poorly versus last year. If so, player combos / running specific plays that might better simulate what he had last year at Purdue could be worth exploring. I think he's a key to unlocking our offense.
 
bluedevilwildcats said:
Looking at one of the analytics tools out there, some interesting insights.

Every top lineup (2 man, 3 man, etc.) includes Sion. Caleb shows up only once. If those two players are interchangeable, Sion appears clearly ahead.

Maluach and Brown are substitutes, there are no "good" lineups that include both of them. And of the two, Brown slightly trails offensively but is much better defensively and should be on the court a lot (see below).

Our two best defenders by far are Flagg and Brown. With those two in the mix, we can pick almost any combination of players w/o significantly hurting our D. To me that means experimenting with guys who are more offensively minded, especially Evans and Gillis.

Re: Gillis, not sure if anyone astute has ideas on why he's shooting so poorly versus last year. If so, player combos / running specific plays that might better simulate what he had last year at Purdue could be worth exploring. I think he's a key to unlocking our offense.
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My thoughts are that last year he had more time to get off his 3-point shot because of his great center. Teams dropped a guard or wing to help guard Eddy. I might be wrong.

GoDuke!
 
bluedevilwildcats said:
Looking at one of the analytics tools out there, some interesting insights.

Every top lineup (2 man, 3 man, etc.) includes Sion. Caleb shows up only once. If those two players are interchangeable, Sion appears clearly ahead.

Maluach and Brown are substitutes, there are no "good" lineups that include both of them. And of the two, Brown slightly trails offensively but is much better defensively and should be on the court a lot (see below).

Our two best defenders by far are Flagg and Brown. With those two in the mix, we can pick almost any combination of players w/o significantly hurting our D. To me that means experimenting with guys who are more offensively minded, especially Evans and Gillis.

Re: Gillis, not sure if anyone astute has ideas on why he's shooting so poorly versus last year. If so, player combos / running specific plays that might better simulate what he had last year at Purdue could be worth exploring. I think he's a key to unlocking our offense.
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The Sion/Caleb discussion is one that will surely continue. I actually thought Caleb played very well, particularly in the first half, against Auburn. Sion was also excellent. The question is, what does one do that the other doesn’t? Right now, Sion has the lone clear plus with his defense, but if Caleb can consistently attack the rim like he did at times on Wednesday that could change. My bet is regardless of who starts we’ll be seeing pretty equal PT between Sion and Caleb for the foreseeable future, with Tyrese more of a fixture.

As for Gillis, while he obviously hasn’t played his best so far, I maintain there’s going to be a game or two we don’t win this year without him. I watched him drive the B1G crazy for too long to think he’s not going to eventually come out of this slump. The question is going to be how Scheyer manages the bench minutes in the meantime, especially if Isaiah continues his hot streak.
 
scottdude8 said:
The Sion/Caleb discussion is one that will surely continue. I actually thought Caleb played very well, particularly in the first half, against Auburn. Sion was also excellent. The question is, what does one do that the other doesn’t? Right now, Sion has the lone clear plus with his defense, but if Caleb can consistently attack the rim like he did at times on Wednesday that could change. My bet is regardless of who starts we’ll be seeing pretty equal PT between Sion and Caleb for the foreseeable future, with Tyrese more of a fixture.

As for Gillis, while he obviously hasn’t played his best so far, I maintain there’s going to be a game or two we don’t win this year without him. I watched him drive the B1G crazy for too long to think he’s not going to eventually come out of this slump. The question is going to be how Scheyer manages the bench minutes in the meantime, especially if Isaiah continues his hot streak.
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Sion is more of a point guard than Caleb. Caleb seems to be better at the 2-guard and he played that role last season. The point-guard needs to be a good FT shooter and Caleb is not that. I thought Caleb had a good game coming off the bench against Auburn.

GoDuke!
 
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