One that is protecting his personal 32 pt margin of victory? At least when we go to their place Coach can try to use the second half performance to keep the team from complacency.
MBB: Duke 87, unc 70 Post-game thread
- Thread starter -jk
- Start date
doctorhook
Member
Thanks and sort of weird.If you look up box scores from the Men’s Basketball Schedule page , they don’t include the +/- column and the formatting is a little different.
To see the version with the +/- you have to open the news story/recap page for the game and then tap or click “Box Score (PDF)”.
Example - the nc state story/recap with the better/ more complete box score :
No. 2 Duke Surges Past NC State, 74-64 - Duke University
A 19-point scoring run, spanning the halftime break, propelled No. 2 Duke past NC State, 74-64, on Monday, Jan. 27.goduke.com
I also would like the +/- for the season since a single game for short minutes does not mean much.
No way to access that I suppose.
Duke76
Member
interestingly as well on pick and rolls with Coop at top of key he was rolling and Sion or others didn't drop it to him wide open...little little nit
Duke76
Member
yes for sure...they did..it was 13.5 or so...I was telling all my friends didn't like that spread at all...Vegas knows
Messimorgan17
Member
For this game at least, it has been reported that cooper has been under the weather so that may have accounted for his fatigue at least for this game. No excuses and I guess it is good to learn how to play through fatigue, whatever the cause. It will pay dividends in the postseason.
MarkD83
Member
Since the euphoria of the game is still with all of us, I think it is a good time to give some contrarian views of various issues that come up in many different game threads. The issues are:
1. Players being tired after playing 30+ minutes
2. The +/- statistic
3. Teams beating the betting thread
My comments are just thoughts to consider. I am not necessarily advocating for them but just pointing them out.
For point 1.
If a player plays 30+ minutes and isn't tired we actually may wonder if they gave their best effort. I really like that players who play 30+ minutes are exhausted it means they "left it all on the court".
For points 2 and 3 together.
At some point in games the leading team is no longer playing the opponent but they are playing the clock and the team strategy, as dictated by a good coach, changes. On offense take as much time off the clock as possible and do not give up live ball turnovers that lead to fast breaks. On defense do not give up three-pointers and do not foul and let the opposing team make points with the clock off.
So lets do some math from last night's game. Duke is up 32 with 9 minutes to go. If Duke just holds the ball for 30 seconds and hands the ball to the official they have meet all of their offensive goals. If they defend the three point line and make unc drive to the hoop for a two pointer and don't foul that will take at least 10 seconds off the clock.
You will also note that (except I think for the last 2 minutes) the game clock keeps running but the shot clock does not start until the ball is touched in bounds. Many of the Duke players toss the ball to the ref after a made shot by the other team. This takes at least 2-3 seconds off the game clock without having the shot clock start. There was even one sequence where Duke rolled the ball in bounds and Sion did not touch the ball until he was challenged by a unc player taking even more time off the clock.
So, 40 seconds per 2 possessions (one by each team) divided into 540 seconds is ~14 possessions per team and if unc scores on every possession Duke still wins which is the point of the game. Everyone on the court while this strategy is employed is actually looking to have a terrible +/- because they are not looking to score and they are less aggressive on defense so that they do not foul.
In terms of the betting line, the point of the game is to win not beat the spread, so if unc cuts the lead to under 13...I really hope that no one on the team even cares about this meaningless metric (except for people betting on the game).
Just some contrarian points to consider after a game where we are all in a great mood.
1. Players being tired after playing 30+ minutes
2. The +/- statistic
3. Teams beating the betting thread
My comments are just thoughts to consider. I am not necessarily advocating for them but just pointing them out.
For point 1.
If a player plays 30+ minutes and isn't tired we actually may wonder if they gave their best effort. I really like that players who play 30+ minutes are exhausted it means they "left it all on the court".
For points 2 and 3 together.
At some point in games the leading team is no longer playing the opponent but they are playing the clock and the team strategy, as dictated by a good coach, changes. On offense take as much time off the clock as possible and do not give up live ball turnovers that lead to fast breaks. On defense do not give up three-pointers and do not foul and let the opposing team make points with the clock off.
So lets do some math from last night's game. Duke is up 32 with 9 minutes to go. If Duke just holds the ball for 30 seconds and hands the ball to the official they have meet all of their offensive goals. If they defend the three point line and make unc drive to the hoop for a two pointer and don't foul that will take at least 10 seconds off the clock.
You will also note that (except I think for the last 2 minutes) the game clock keeps running but the shot clock does not start until the ball is touched in bounds. Many of the Duke players toss the ball to the ref after a made shot by the other team. This takes at least 2-3 seconds off the game clock without having the shot clock start. There was even one sequence where Duke rolled the ball in bounds and Sion did not touch the ball until he was challenged by a unc player taking even more time off the clock.
So, 40 seconds per 2 possessions (one by each team) divided into 540 seconds is ~14 possessions per team and if unc scores on every possession Duke still wins which is the point of the game. Everyone on the court while this strategy is employed is actually looking to have a terrible +/- because they are not looking to score and they are less aggressive on defense so that they do not foul.
In terms of the betting line, the point of the game is to win not beat the spread, so if unc cuts the lead to under 13...I really hope that no one on the team even cares about this meaningless metric (except for people betting on the game).
Just some contrarian points to consider after a game where we are all in a great mood.
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TKG
Member
Attachments
So much good stuff to talk about… perhaps one of the most refreshing as compared to previous seasons was our ability to contain dribble penetration. If we can do that, we are next level. Seems in the tournament we always get scorched by some super fast PG who gets to the rim.
One mystery though. How did we get out rebounded? Watching the game it seemed we were clearly winning the rebounding battle…
One mystery though. How did we get out rebounded? Watching the game it seemed we were clearly winning the rebounding battle…
MChambers
Member
Think it was mostly in the second half after the game was decided.
Speaking of this, and apologies if it's been covered elsewhere, but doesn't Torvik's model stop counting stats after the game is totally out of hand? I wonder at what point that clicked on yesterday, and how that compares to KenPom etc. if you just look at the first 30 minutes or so, I expect it's a very different profile than the full game.
I was thinking the same about DV — thought it would be cool if he showed up to the booth and, “surprise!” That being said, there’s a fair amount of other fans on this board that get a little cranky with his commentary that gets off topic — but that’s usually when Duke is pulling away. This one would have been great to have DV call — he would have been praising Coach K and Coach S and lamenting UNCs downfall the entire second half. Hope he makes it back to Cameron very soon. The guy is a good soul and called so many memorable games at Duke — and the ACC overall rose to prowess in the media with his enthusiasm behind the league as ESPN grew its dominance coverage college basketball which was a small sport (relative to NFL MLB NBA and College Football). DV really should get more credit for drawing attention to the sport. As for Bilas, I’m used to his approach. Sometimes it feels like he repurposes the same story thru-lines from the beginning to end of the season. But he’s consistent (which is great in media) and well prepared. And he gets credit for advocating for the college athlete and was way ahead in NIL (and countering the leverage of the NCAA monopoly). Alexander goes from analysis to — remember that time at band camp — from zero to sixty in two seconds — completely forgetting there’s a game at hand. It would be nice to get a game experience where we predominantly hear the fans, the squeaking of the sneaks, the whistle, ball bouncing, cheerleaders and the band playing with minimal commentating — like old school MLB. But in the day in age when two bros essentialy run a zoom call and kid each other incessantly during a NFL game — and it gets big ratings — I will have to hold my breath. I think the workaround might be to have a simulcast of a Kardashian quietly live tweeting on her couch, because she would have not interest in verbally commenting about the game. The flip side for entertainment would be her figuring out which future players career she’d want to destroy. That would bring in the younger female demographic for a win-win.
MChambers
Member
You can look at the Torvik game stats and see where the lead became safe or "analytically final", based on Bill James's formula. Last night, Duke had a safe lead with 9:52 remaining.
Advanced Stat Box Score - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank
T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.
www.barttorvik.com
I don't know how that compares to KenPom, but it wouldn't surprise me if they use the same formula.
Indoor66
Well-known member
We knocked them down and ate their lunch. Then we relaxed and ate their dinner.
rsvman
Member
If you divide the game into quarters, they actually scored two points more than we did for the entire last three quarters of the game (we were 19 points ahead after the 'first quarter').
BandAlum83
Member
I haven’t seen this linked yet.
IMO, a really good discussion.
IMO, a really good discussion.
77-45 in the first 3 and 25-10 the last quarter when the game was over. Domination to indifference.