Duke 72, Kentucky 77 Post Game Thread

[phaedrus]

I thought our offensive execution was pretty good until the last 10 minutes. Unfortunately, the last ~4 minutes were really bad:

- Flagg missed jumper
- Kon turnover
- Flagg and-1
- Flagg turnover
- Foster missed 1-and-1, offensive rebound, Flagg interior bucket
- Flagg turnover
- Flagg turnover

So, two really good plays from Flagg, one missed jumper, and 4 turnovers in our last 7 possessions. This after we had committed just 3 turnovers in our first 67 possessions. The last non-Flagg basket was made by Mason Gillis at the 10:51 mark of the second half. So yeah, perhaps Jon could have drawn up something better for those last plays, but Cooper was the only one doing anything offensively in the last few minutes.

On several possessions in the last few minutes, it looked like we were running offensive sets where Flagg had the ball at the top with the opportunity to get other players involved, but he kept the ball and went into iso mode. It's hard to know if this was directed by Scheyer or if Flagg made these decisions - which would have looked brilliant if they had worked.

But it didn't appear to me that the rest of the team was just standing around watching Flagg work, until it became clear on each possession that that's what Flagg was going to do.

 

[House P]

While I would have preferred a Duke win, it was still fun to watch a competitive game against a very good opponent. Felt to me like watching an Elite 8 game with much lower stakes.

My biggest takeaway is that Kerr Kriisa would be the most despised player in the country if he played for Duke. I gotta assume that his awful mustache is a shoutout to former UK player Richie Farmer.



Speaker of Farmer, a quick Google search informed me that he went on to become the Commissioner of Agriculture in Kentucky. If Kentucky had a Farmer for Agriculture Commissioner, I have to think that sets things up for the Kentucky Department of Transportation to be led by Andrew Carr.

 

[scottdude8]

Second half was just excruciating to watch. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see the 1st half, so I happily joined in with Duke up by 9.

The half I did see was not good. Thoughts:

- UK played much more team ball than Duke did from start to finish of the half. It never felt like UK wasn't going to complete the comeback.
- Surprised to see such a relatively short bench. Duke played 8, UK, with older players who should have more stamina, played 10. Seemed to me a couple of Duke's young freshmen were gassed in the final four minutes. Duke has five grad students, three of which I think were intended to play this season. Seems a waste not to use them for a couple of minutes to relieve starters. Is Sheffield a "miss?" I sort of see them as 'misses' if they can't see the floor. Never going to understand using a relatively short bench AND bringing in players from the portal to ride the pine.
- Offense was abysmal. There appeared to be no offensive adjustments to UK overplaying the passing lanes, and no one on the team seemed confident, or quick. enough to drive into the lane and get a good shot, except for Flagg, whose ball handling deteriorated a bit as he tired. In any case, having a guy his height dribbling more than twice in the paint, is generally not a good idea in college ball. Duke is going to have to figure out how to move the ball. Offense broke down eerily as it did last year at times when the weave at the three-point line gets disrupted. I was a bit frustrated that Filipowski was turning the ball over inside last year rather than a guard taking it. Repeat last night. Appears that might be a strategy problem rather than a player problem. Need some quicks and some precise passing to break down that kind of D. It generally isn't done by having a PF dribble into the lane.
- Shooting is much harder when the other team is focused and near as tall as you are. Understand Duke had some open shots in the first half from three that they missed, but I thought UK contested hard in the second half. If this is what shooting looks like against a decent defense, there are more Ls coming.
- Proctor disappeared. Not sure he is comfortable in whatever role he is playing. Was he involved more in the first half?
- Duke didn't respond on defense when UK ratcheted up theirs. Just didn't think the same energy ((or focus?) was there. Not saying they weren't playing hard, just thought UK was more aggressive on D.
- Know UK has more experienced players, but they've spent no more time together than Duke players have. They have a really high ceiling if they continue to grow as NC State did toward the end of last year. Time will tell.
- Thought Coach S looked a bit flummoxed on the sideline late in the half. Didn't seem to have any answers on either end of the floor. Whether that can be attributed to player execution or not IDK.

I don't think Sheffield was ever expected to play a significant role. Scheyer has essentially said as much, that he was brought in to be a Kale Catchings style practice player. By all accounts he's at the high end of that archetype considering he played non-trivial minutes at Rice, but I still think some crazy things would have to happen for him to get non-garbage time PT.

 

[tommy]

I've seen this become prevalent in the NBA and it's existed in other sports for quite some time, but I think Duke should look into getting Jon an offensive minded coach on staff. We brought a recruiter in from outside the family and I think with nearly 3 years of evidence, Jon is not an offensive savant and is a heavy defense focused coach with the rest of the staff being very similar in ideologies. I know it won't provide much for this season, but I think for Jon's career and the future of Duke basketball it's borderline a must at this point.

Edited to add: Case in point, dead ball situations, whether they be baseline OOBs or coming out of timeouts it's consistently poor, when in years past there was creativity and wasn't an adventure getting the ball in play or a play designed to get a bucket.

Well we were #8 in the country in offensive efficiency last year. #18 in Jon's first year. Out of 360 teams.
Not saying the end of game offensive planning was good last night. It wasn't and I'm sure Jon would handle it differently if he could do it over. But there were a lot of factors that went into that.

 

[uh_no]

1) We lost because we shot poorly. Full stop. But this is not a team that will consistently struggle to shoot, like others
...
6) Third straight came where we came out cold shooting. We need to hit some early threes. That would make everything else easier.

these two statements seem at odds.

Sometimes we will have off nights. The game was still within reach. So plenty to work on either way.

 

[azzefkram]

Well we were #8 in the country in offensive efficiency last year. #18 in Jon's first year. Out of 360 teams.
Not saying the end of game offensive planning was good last night. It wasn't and I'm sure Jon would handle it differently if he could do it over. But there were a lot of factors that went into that.

Jon's first year the offense was ranked 33 (T-Rank) and 40 (Kenpom). End game was not pretty and the shooting was dreadful but I am not overly concerned about the offense. The defense is a concern.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Do you think Jon Scheyer is not smart enough to learn those things? Plus, the bench is already full of assistant coaches. Some have played professionally. If Jon doesn't learn those things, I'd say it would be stubbornness. Going to our best player at the end of games is not a bad idea. Bad execution is what dooms those plays. Anyway, Duke should have been comfortably in the lead if they had shot FTs and just a decent percent of their 3s.

GoDuke!

In Zion's last game, K was roasted for not getting him the ball at the end. After last night, Jon gets roasted for depending on Flagg at the end.

See how it works?

 

[Phredd3]

In Zion's last game, K was roasted for not getting him the ball at the end. After last night, Jon gets roasted for depending on Flagg at the end.

See how it works?

Zion did not come into Duke with the reputation as a "high IQ guy" who "makes other players better". I am mystified how you can make other players better in a clear-out where everyone else stands around and watches. That's true for K, too, but in his case, it was even worse. He not only called a clear-out, he did it for a scorer who was about half as efficient as our best. Why would you do that? Like, ever?

At least Scheyer's clear-out was for the guy who is clearly our best player, but it's still not a great choice when you have four other threats on the floor. If we take an open three and clank it, so be it. If you get the open look, it's good play, and you live with the results. Just ask Shane Battier. But we didn't get any look at all. Twice.

 

[tommy]

Better for Jon to find out now that he needs to do something more than Flagg iso ball in late game situations than to find that out in March. I would've preferred to have the ball in Proctor's hands and run Flagg off some screens to get a favorable match-up instead of allowing Kentucky to dictate who the defender was. But, I'm optimistic Jon and the players will all learn from this and still think we have a very fun season ahead.

I agree with this. Tyrese's standout skill (although he's an improved shooter too) is his ability to make the right decisions in ball screen situations. Running one with Cooper at the end would've been the best choice, I think. Tyrese could either have gotten into the lane for a 12 footer or else hit Cooper on the roll, on the move, towards the basket for something close that he'd either make or get fouled on.

 

[kshepinthehouse]

I agree with this. Tyrese's standout skill (although he's an improved shooter too) is his ability to make the right decisions in ball screen situations. Running one with Cooper at the end would've been the best choice, I think. Tyrese could either have gotten into the lane for a 12 footer or else hit Cooper on the roll, on the move, towards the basket for something close that he'd either make or get fouled on.

I think I’d switch Foster and Proctor. Let Proctor have the ball and let Foster spot up

 

[Maged]

On several possessions in the last few minutes, it looked like we were running offensive sets where Flagg had the ball at the top with the opportunity to get other players involved, but he kept the ball and went into iso mode. It's hard to know if this was directed by Scheyer or if Flagg made these decisions - which would have looked brilliant if they had worked.

But it didn't appear to me that the rest of the team was just standing around watching Flagg work, until it became clear on each possession that that's what Flagg was going to do.

Yes that's the way I saw it. Get the ball into the hands of your best playmaker. I'm not sure the rest of the team helped him much on some possessions but Cooper was going to win or lose it on his own. That's how he is and I love it.

He does have Flip Disease however, in that he turns his back to the basket and tries to spin in the lane and you can't do that at this level.

 

[DukieInBrasil]

What i learned from this game: Cooper dribbling through the defense is not good offense for this team. We nearly beat an exceptionally older team despite: our previously leading scorer and shooter having an absolutely atrocious game, not just b/c his shots wouldn't go down but Kon did lots of other things poorly too, particularly in the 2nd half; our PG having possibly the worst game of his career at Duke, although he started out fine, he finished very, very poorly; and 2 of our regular players missed extending amounts of time due to injury. If Kon even shoots 33% from the floor instead of 25%, Duke wins. It was incredible the number of shots that Duke missed from less than 5 ft. with no discernible defensive menace to the shot. 1st half Duke was very good, 2nd half Duke would not make the tournament.
I'm not worried about the team, but i am worried about the officiating. From one half to the next they called two different sports. Extremely unprofessional.

 

[Mak P]

In Zion's last game, K was roasted for not getting him the ball at the end. After last night, Jon gets roasted for depending on Flagg at the end.

See how it works?

I don't know why. He was the only healthy player doing anything in the 2nd half. That's on other guys who disappeared. Proctor literally disappeared... 3 shots the 2nd half, Foster played bad and Kon seemed to wear down from the physicality he also couldn't make 3's

 

[tommy]

Jon's first year the offense was ranked 33 (T-Rank) and 40 (Kenpom). End game was not pretty and the shooting was dreadful but I am not overly concerned about the offense. The defense is a concern.

You're right. My bad. I didn't sort the teams properly.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Yeah, on this point it's worth noting that Duke took 29 three-pointers against Maine (and made 11), 38 against Army (and made 17), and 23 against Kentucky (and made 4). The number of attempts was down a bit against Kentucky, likely due to the lack of garbage time for our bench guys, but it still shows that this team is purposefully hunting 3s. For reference, last year we averaged 22 three pointers per game on the season, so even our lowest output through three games this year is above last year's average.

We've seen that this team can make 3s in the exhibitions and in the first two games. The fact that this is clearly an emphasized part of the offense this year means the coach is seeing the team make 3s in practice and is comfortable with an offense designed around shooting from deep. All that evidence points to the 17% we shot yesterday being a major outlier, and to me the eye test confirmed that... I don't think the quality of 3s we took was significantly off from the type of shots we had been taking previously. Even if we make 3s at what would be considered a "bad" rate of 30%, at least one or two of those open 3s that could've taken a 7 point lead to a 10 point lead and changed momentum goes down, and the entire progression of the game changes.

I don't disagree with everyone frustrated with the end of game coaching and execution... FWIW, the semi-neutral fans I interact with on a daily basis (UConn profs who are basketball fans and watched the game, haha) all came up to me with the same, "What was going on in the last minute?!?!" reaction this morning. (Fun!) Jon clearly needs to improve that aspect of his coaching. But, perhaps justifiably, the fact that we missed a handful of ripe chances to put the game out of reach throughout the game has gotten lost in the conversation. That is giving me solace—were it not for an outlier shooting performance, we likely wouldn't have even run into those late-game issues. Perhaps it's a blessing in disguise that those were diagnosed now in November rather than in January.

We gave Cooper the ball late in the game and he hunted his shot. Very understandable for a 17 year-old superstar who believes he can win the game. Maybe there's a lesson there to keep trusting your teammates and to be willing to pass up a good shot for a great shot.

 

[tommy]

I think I’d switch Foster and Proctor. Let Proctor have the ball and let Foster spot up

Problem is the Proctor is not only better than Foster running the screen/roll, but he's also a better catch and shoot guy. I know Caleb's 3 point shooting was better than Tyrese's last year (although on significantly lower volume) but it seems to me that Tyrese has really improved his shooting, and his numbers early far outpace Caleb's. Tyrese is simply the better offensive player than Caleb is right now, and he can't be both the guy running the screen/roll and also spotting up on the wing or in the corner.

KInd of off topic, but frankly I really think Caleb needs to revamp his shot. He shot well from 3 in high school and last year on low volume, but it's kind of a push shot with super high arc, which means there is very little margin for error. I don't think that's going to work for him at the next level, and I'm a bit surprised he hasn't reworked that shot in any of the off-seasons.

 

[JGDUKE2008]

Problem is the Proctor is not only better than Foster running the screen/roll, but he's also a better catch and shoot guy. I know Caleb's 3 point shooting was better than Tyrese's last year (although on significantly lower volume) but it seems to me that Tyrese has really improved his shooting, and his numbers early far outpace Caleb's. Tyrese is simply the better offensive player than Caleb is right now, and he can't be both the guy running the screen/roll and also spotting up on the wing or in the corner.

KInd of off topic, but frankly I really think Caleb needs to revamp his shot. He shot well from 3 in high school and last year on low volume, but it's kind of a push shot with super high arc, which means there is very little margin for error. I don't think that's going to work for him at the next level, and I'm a bit surprised he hasn't reworked that shot in any of the off-seasons.

If Caleb can't hit from outside i'd rather start Sion or Gillis, or go with Proctor, Flagg, Kon, Brown, Maluach

 

[kako]

Only two timeouts at that point in the game. Maybe they felt a timeout was more valuable than a turnover would cost.

I went back and watched. The play resulted in a TO. Game tied, crunch time, UK had the momentum. IMO possession was more important.

9F

 

[SkyBrickey]

Problem is the Proctor is not only better than Foster running the screen/roll, but he's also a better catch and shoot guy. I know Caleb's 3 point shooting was better than Tyrese's last year (although on significantly lower volume) but it seems to me that Tyrese has really improved his shooting, and his numbers early far outpace Caleb's. Tyrese is simply the better offensive player than Caleb is right now, and he can't be both the guy running the screen/roll and also spotting up on the wing or in the corner.

KInd of off topic, but frankly I really think Caleb needs to revamp his shot. He shot well from 3 in high school and last year on low volume, but it's kind of a push shot with super high arc, which means there is very little margin for error. I don't think that's going to work for him at the next level, and I'm a bit surprised he hasn't reworked that shot in any of the off-seasons.

He shot 40% from 3 last year. Who "reworks their shot" after shooting 40% from 3?

 

[phaedrus]

Jon's first year the offense was ranked 33 (T-Rank) and 40 (Kenpom). End game was not pretty and the shooting was dreadful but I am not overly concerned about the offense. The defense is a concern.

I suppose you're not just talking about last night when you say defense is your concern, but since this thread is about last night: T-Rank gives us an adjusted defensive efficiency of 91.1 (which would be third-best in the nation) and 109.2 for offensive efficiency (96th) for last night.

So if we're talking about last night, I'm more concerned about offense than defense.