WNBA: The 2024 Regular Season and Playoffs

Steven43 said:
Statistics can only tell you so much. I’d like to see how the guards who were chosen for the Olympic team would do on the terrible Indiana Fever team with a below average coach. There is a reason they had the #1 pick. Taurasi wouldn’t be doing any better than Clark, and likely worse.

If you can’t see the vast potential and rare talent of Caitlin Clark as compared to the other women in the WNBA, well, we just see basketball very differently, you and i.
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Did you see Taurasi play in her prime, or in college? She was chosen by a terrible Mercury team, worse than the Fever , and got them to .500. There’s a reason she was first-team all-WNBA ‘as a rookie. She was a better player than Clark in college, and absolutely a better player in her first season in the WNBA. (I’ll defer to uh_no to say more about her college play.). That’s not an insult to Clark; Taurasi is in the discussion for GOAT ‘guard of the WNBA. (And, maybe in 20 years, Clark is in that discussion as well.)

And don’t put words in my mouth. Nothing that I have said indicates that I think Clark is a bad player; in one post I said I hope she makes the next Olympic team. The point some of us is making is that she not yet one of the top 12 American players in the league.
 
DU82 said:
See post 51 regarding Ogunbowale support. Since I don’t have a Statshead subscription, perhaps SouthernDukie could do a comparison between her and Clark for the same 12 games.
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Sorry, I don’t have a subscription either. I just saw that graphic online and was able to take a screenshot and post it.
 
DU82 said:
Did you see Taurasi play in her prime, or in college? She was chosen by a terrible Mercury team, worse than the Fever , and got them to .500. There’s a reason she was first-team all-WNBA ‘as a rookie. She was a better player than Clark in college, and absolutely a better player in her first season in the WNBA. (I’ll defer to uh_no to say more about her college play.). That’s not an insult to Clark; Taurasi is in the discussion for GOAT ‘guard of the WNBA. (And, maybe in 20 years, Clark is in that discussion as well.)

And don’t put words in my mouth. Nothing that I have said indicates that I think Clark is a bad player; in one post I said I hope she makes the next Olympic team. The point some of us is making is that she not yet one of the top 12 American players in the league.
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Yes, I saw Taurasi play in college, and Clark was better, imo. At Connecticut Taurasi was surrounded by the best recruits in the nation. Clark was surrounded by mostly average recruits. That’s a massive difference that cannot be overstated.

Clark did much more with much less. She was a better, more highly-skilled player than Taurasi in college, and she’s a better, more explosive, more dangerous player than Taurasi right now.
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I understand that you don’t see it that way, and that’s fine. And no, I didn’t put words in your mouth. At least I know for sure that wasn’t my intention. But anyway, it’s okay that we disagree. This is just sports after all.
 
Steven43 said:
Yes, I saw Taurasi play in college, and Clark was better, imo. At Connecticut Taurasi was surrounded by the best recruits in the nation. Clark was surrounded by mostly average recruits. That’s a massive difference that cannot be overstated.

Clark did much more with much less. She was a better, more highly-skilled player than Taurasi in college, and she’s a better, more explosive, more dangerous player than Taurasi right now.
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I understand that you don’t see it that way, and that’s fine. And no, I didn’t put words in your mouth. At least I know for sure that wasn’t my intention. But anyway, it’s okay that we disagree. This is just sports after all.
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Acknowledging that UConn had better players overall, I’ll note that Clark played with at least one current WNBA ‘player and three draftees (from 2023.). That’s not “average” talent.
 
DU82 said:
Acknowledging that UConn had better players overall, I’ll note that Clark played with at least one current WNBA ‘player and three draftees (from 2023.). That’s not “average” talent.
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Clark made them all appear to be better than they actually are/were. She consistently set them up for easy baskets with her stellar ball handling, her astonishing court awareness, and her consistently perfect passes. I’ve never seen another woman player with this level of skill in those areas.

And I said “mostly” average. That allows for some decent talent.
 
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Can I turn this discussion on its head for a moment?

We are seeing a lot of criticism and frustration that Clark was not selected for the team. I think there is zero question that having Clark there would have brought higher ratings and greater attention.

So, what would have been the downside of picking her? Would there have been a loud outcry that the #1 pick and a kid who is setting records as a rookie was undeserving of a spot on the team? Would folks have been screaming that it is so unfair that Dianna Taurasi wasn't getting a shot at a 6th gold medal? Would it have put Team USA at a meaningfully greater risk of winning the gold?

I'm just not seeing the downside here.
 
JasonEvans said:
Can I turn this discussion on its head for a moment?

We are seeing a lot of criticism and frustration that Clark was not selected for the team. I think there is zero question that having Clark there would have brought higher ratings and greater attention.

So, what would have been the downside of picking her? Would there have been a loud outcry that the #1 pick and a kid who is setting records as a rookie was undeserving of a spot on the team? Would folks have been screaming that it is so unfair that Dianna Taurasi wasn't getting a shot at a 6th gold medal? Would it have put Team USA at a meaningfully greater risk of winning the gold?

I'm just not seeing the downside here.
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Bomani Jones (yes, I know) had a good half hour on Caitlin Clark in his most recent episode. He has in the past been very supportive of her and has marveled at the cultural phenomenon (witnessed here too) around her.

He said a lot of the same things that have been said on this thread. But also pointed out that making a team selection for the purpose of eyeball can be a big mistake. Our Women's Basketball Program is one of the most dominant programs in the world. No Olympic losses in over 30 years. No tournament losses in almost 20 years. Their gold medal victories are rarely in doubt by the second half.

If tell the players on that team "here's a player to make you more appealing" - that is not going to be a happy team. This isn't about inviting one more person for a trip to Paris. This is a program and a system that is dominant.

The men's Olympic basketball team had to do a full overhaul not too long ago because of too much hubris and not investing the requisite time and work.

Again, I don't have a horse in this race - I can absolutely see both sides of this. But I understand how if you are a WNBA veteran and all-world player, you might not be terribly excited about having millions of people suddenly paying attention to your sport and immediately critiquing a fully dominant international team based on their 10 weeks of watching Caitlin Clark.
 
DU82 said:
Did you see Taurasi play in her prime, or in college? She was chosen by a terrible Mercury team, worse than the Fever , and got them to .500. There’s a reason she was first-team all-WNBA ‘as a rookie. She was a better player than Clark in college, and absolutely a better player in her first season in the WNBA. (I’ll defer to uh_no to say more about her college play.). That’s not an insult to Clark; Taurasi is in the discussion for GOAT ‘guard of the WNBA. (And, maybe in 20 years, Clark is in that discussion as well.)

And don’t put words in my mouth. Nothing that I have said indicates that I think Clark is a bad player; in one post I said I hope she makes the next Olympic team. The point some of us is making is that she not yet one of the top 12 American players in the league.
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The fact that taurasi won 3 titles when tennessee was, well, tennessee, including a 2003 team which was pretty barren outside taurasi puts her in a class that i'm not sure any other player reaches IMO. She shot better from the floor and from 3 than clark did for her career.

The real difference though? D wasn't coming into the league with a soul considering her soft. That reputation is one reason players are playing Clark tough. Clark has to fix that to be successful at this level...these aren't college defenses anymore.
 
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Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 said:
Bomani Jones (yes, I know)
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Jones saying Clark shouldn't be on the team is the best argument I've heard yet for Clark being on the team.

uh_no said:
The fact that taurasi won 3 titles when tennessee was, well, tennessee, including a 2003 team which was pretty barren outside taurasi puts her in a class that i'm not sure any other player reaches IMO. She shot better from the floor and from 3 than clark did for her career.

The real difference though? D wasn't coming into the league with a soul considering her soft. That reputation is one reason players are playing Clark tough. Clark has to fix that to be successful at this level...these aren't college defenses anymore.
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Taurasi was a fantastic player, an all time great.

The American women are still by far the best team. It was a huge mistake to leave Clark off the team.
 
elvis14 said:
Jones saying Clark shouldn't be on the team is the best argument I've heard yet for Clark being on the team.
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To be clear, Bomani wasn't saying she should or should not be on the team. He was just commenting on all the noise around it.

There's a few potential outcomes here:

1) Clark isn't on the team and they struggle. I can't imagine they are likey to lose, but even close games would open them up to "maybe they should have included CC."

2) Clark isn't on the team and they roll. The discussion quickly becomes how the next wave of WNBA talent will continue to dominate on the international stage.

3) Clark is invited last minute (we're already last minute) as a replacement for someone. She either does or doesn't have an impactful role.

I'm not sure how scenario three plays out as far as "they capitulated" or "they saw reason" or "someone put their foot down."

It does seem strange to me that people in the national media and here have drawn such irrefutable lines in the sand.
 
JasonEvans said:
Can I turn this discussion on its head for a moment?

We are seeing a lot of criticism and frustration that Clark was not selected for the team. I think there is zero question that having Clark there would have brought higher ratings and greater attention.

So, what would have been the downside of picking her? Would there have been a loud outcry that the #1 pick and a kid who is setting records as a rookie was undeserving of a spot on the team? Would folks have been screaming that it is so unfair that Dianna Taurasi wasn't getting a shot at a 6th gold medal? Would it have put Team USA at a meaningfully greater risk of winning the gold?

I'm just not seeing the downside here.
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Not really turning the chat on its head. THIS has been the point from day one on those of us criticizing the decision to leave her off. It's those who think this is a nuts and bolts hard core stat / performance discussion who are missing the boat.

Team USA is going to win...period. With or without Clark. Or Taurasi. With Clark, lotta folks will watch. Without her, lotta folks will NOT watch. Period.
Game set match
 
sagegrouse said:
Can we kill this thread? No new information or views.
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Counterpoint: Caitlin Clark's appearance on the USWNT was first mentioned in this thread in post #29. We've had almost 100 posts discussing the selection of a female basketball player for the Olympics, a player who would likely be at the end of the bench had she been selected at all, and there hasn't even been a single game played. The Duke women's basketball team generated fewer than 55 post per game during their entire season over the course of five months.

In my view, that's pretty solid evidence of the kind of enthusiasm that's been generated. I encourage you all to take some of this energy and apply it to the Duke team this coming season.
 
elvis14 said:
It was a huge mistake to leave Clark off the team.
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100% truth.

I know for certain that my wife and I won’t be watching Olympic women’s basketball, but we would have had Caitlin Clark been on the team.

We watched at least 20 of her games the past two seasons. She is just such a captivating player. Talk about having the “It” factor, my goodness.
 
Steven43 said:
100% truth.

I know for certain that my wife and I won’t be watching Olympic women’s basketball, but we would have had Caitlin Clark been on the team.

We watched at least 20 of her games the past two seasons. She is just such a captivating player. Talk about having the “It” factor, my goodness.
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Obviously there are differing opinions but Steven43 and Mrs. Steven43 are the example of what I'm saying: with CC he and his wife watch, without they no watchy. Extrapolate that out to a massive number of people and you get the reality of the situation.

It's just that simple, the current attention is such a huge opportunity (lost) for women hoops (and I'm someone that would like to see women's sports get more attention).

Also as for on court play, I understand not putting the ball in the hands of young PG for the Olympic team but when she plays off the ball as a shooter it opens up the court (the Fever do this when the backup PG checks in and Mitchell sits).
 
I don't think I have ever seen someone embrace the "I'm the #&*-hole" mantle the way Angel Reese does. She's just all-in on trying to make the world hate her.

Here's video of her quite literally trying to take Caitlyn Clark's head off: https://x.com/SInow/status/1802393542641213524

I mean, Draymond Green and Dennis Rodman saw this and were like, "Yikes, that was a bit excessive."
 
JasonEvans said:
I don't think I have ever seen someone embrace the "I'm the #&*-hole" mantle the way Angel Reese does. She's just all-in on trying to make the world hate her.

Here's video of her quite literally trying to take Caitlyn Clark's head off: https://x.com/SInow/status/1802393542641213524

I mean, Draymond Green and Dennis Rodman saw this and were like, "Yikes, that was a bit excessive."
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Angel Reese is a straight-up punk. And if she wants people to dislike her, well, mission accomplished.

Can’t stand her.
 
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