White Lotus (SPOILERS)

Bostondevil said:
Listen to what Carrie Coons says in her reconciliation speech again. As much as I hate saying things like this, one might have to be a woman to understand what a confession of deep friendship and love that speech was. Mike White probably had some help from Carrie Coons writing it.
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I can see that. I guess I just felt more comraderie with Carrie's character than her other friends, and it seemed like a pretty toxic relationship for all three. It felt anticlimactic for the resolution to be "well, we've been friends too long to expect our dynamics or personalities to change."

I have a few spectacular friends from my early days and I am very thankful for them. But we are more supportive and kind to one another without the constant talking behind one another's back. I would absolutely not describe that as "normal" or some gendered experience, but I also recognize I am extremely fortunate for these relationships.

I guess I was hoping for a more storybook resolution or a big realization on the parts of one or more individuals. Laurie's speech was sincere and heartfelt and maybe more realistic than her saying "oh God you are rhe same people you were in high school when we were stealing BFs and concerned with our appearances, why can't mature?"

I found is a bit depressing. Or maybe I'm nor reading it properly. But to me there's more to a friendship than just elapsed time spent together.
 
Skydog said:
I was surprised by the endings in seasons 1 & especially 2. This season I knew there was going to be poison fruit in the blender and many, many predicted Chelsea was going to be killed. So, unlike season 2 with the automatic weapon slaughter of the gays and then Tanya boinking her head on the ship, this finale was boringly predictable. And again, Saxon unaffected by the murder of Chelsea? Come on.

(I know horsey is dead or close to it, just venting.)
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I’ll give you this one was more predictable but we also have the formula pretty well programmed so I think we’re all a bit more attuned to what the tips are. I’ve rewatched season 1 a few times and definitely picked up on more than I did when I didn’t know what I was watching.

The pongo pongo fruit was a pretty funny Chekhov’s gum though.
 
Ya, it's a satire, the nuttier the better as far as I'm concerned. My wife and I spent a week at a resort last month and we didn't see people anywhere near as interesting as in White Lotus. But Thailand is too far away for me right now.
 
Bostondevil said:
Are we sure he knew? I'll have to watch the end again, but were the Ratliff's aware that there was gunfire?
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Ok, I just watched the end again. While the gunfight is going down, Tim is holding the nearly dead Lochlan in his arms. I suspect he didn't register the noise, if he heard it. The rest of the family is presumably eating breakfast when the whole thing goes down. We don't know where the restaurant is in relation to where the whole thing went down but it might be far enough away that the gunfire doesn't register as anything more than guards having target practice at the shooting range. It has been established that there is a shooting range on the premises. The only members of the staff that witness everything and live are the owner and the - what to call him - head of staff. It's completely plausible that they could keep the events quiet. They wouldn't have to pay off that many people - Zion/Belinda/meditation Indian/the 3 blondes.
 
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 said:
I can see that. I guess I just felt more comraderie with Carrie's character than her other friends, and it seemed like a pretty toxic relationship for all three. It felt anticlimactic for the resolution to be "well, we've been friends too long to expect our dynamics or personalities to change."

I have a few spectacular friends from my early days and I am very thankful for them. But we are more supportive and kind to one another without the constant talking behind one another's back. I would absolutely not describe that as "normal" or some gendered experience, but I also recognize I am extremely fortunate for these relationships.

I guess I was hoping for a more storybook resolution or a big realization on the parts of one or more individuals. Laurie's speech was sincere and heartfelt and maybe more realistic than her saying "oh God you are rhe same people you were in high school when we were stealing BFs and concerned with our appearances, why can't mature?"

I found is a bit depressing. Or maybe I'm nor reading it properly. But to me there's more to a friendship than just elapsed time spent together.
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I wouldn't make that call, there is no proper way to be influenced by someone else's creativity. I found Laurie's speech to be a somewhat unique moment in their relationship where she puts all the BS away and tells them how she really feels about them and then they all say I love to each other. From my perspective, they mean it.

I can never be in a room with only men. I can never be in room with no white people. I think about these things sometimes when I see scenes that have only men or non-white people in them. I have written scenes with only men. I have written scenes with only people of color. I had to imagine what that might be like as I cannot draw from experience. That scene felt like someone who understands long term female friendships, especially friendships that have managed to outlast the infusion of jealousy that comes from liking the same boys.
 
budwom said:
Ya, it's a satire, the nuttier the better as far as I'm concerned. My wife and I spent a week at a resort last month and we didn't see people anywhere near as interesting as in White Lotus. But Thailand is too far away for me right now.
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One of my favorite teachers always used to insist, “trust the artist, understand their intent”.

I like to pair this with my favorite review of Romeo & Juliet. “It’s a 3 day relationship between a 17 year old and a 13 year old that causes 6 deaths. The end”.


I’m okay with the absurdities of WL, the plot holes, etc. there are different reasons to enjoy it.

I’m not suggesting it’s Shakespeare but noting some Shakespeare is about a lot of things, but noting the plot or rationale of the character.
 
bundabergdevil said:
One of my favorite teachers always used to insist, “trust the artist, understand their intent”.

I like to pair this with my favorite review of Romeo & Juliet. “It’s a 3 day relationship between a 17 year old and a 13 year old that causes 6 deaths. The end”.


I’m okay with the absurdities of WL, the plot holes, etc. there are different reasons to enjoy it.

I’m not suggesting it’s Shakespeare but noting some Shakespeare is about a lot of things, but noting the plot or rationale of the character.
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Deaths: Romeo, Juliet, Tybalt, Paris, Lady Montague, and who is number 6?
 
Bostondevil said:
Listen to what Carrie Coons says in her reconciliation speech again. As much as I hate saying things like this, one might have to be a woman to understand what a confession of deep friendship and love that speech was. Mike White probably had some help from Carrie Coons writing it.
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Interesting! I'm dating a woman and we were texting after I finished the show. She said her favorite and, for her, most impactful scene was Carrie's speech to which I admitted I didn't really follow/understand it (while thinking, is that because I'm a man?). I read it online and I see how it's somewhat meaningful, but admittedly I still feel like I'm missing something.
 
Rich said:
Interesting! I'm dating a woman and we were texting after I finished the show. She said her favorite and, for her, most impactful scene was Carrie's speech to which I admitted I didn't really follow/understand it (while thinking, is that because I'm a man?). I read it online and I see how it's somewhat meaningful, but admittedly I still feel like I'm missing something.
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I’m a man and it was the only scene in the finale that put a lump in my throat. I don’t know if I can explain why.
 
My social media feed is chock full of Duke stuff and I just saw a meme suggesting that when the White Lotus Ratliffs were all checking their phones on the boat ride away from the resort, they were seeing news of the Duke melt down in the Final Four. However, upon seeing the meme, I immediately thought of Adonis and Darius Ratliff, our 2026 recruiting targets and worried that the meme's suggestion was that our loss means the Ratliff twins were reconsidering Duke as a target. Maybe the meme works on both levels.

All of this is to say that there is an opportunity for Theo Ratliff's twins to grab the Duke-associated Ratliff name back from the fictional Ratliffs and set the world right again. I can think of no better reason for them to come to Duke.

As for the show, I agree with those saying Mike White got really sloppy about how conveniently some things were wrapped up:
-The multiple murders on property not having a more dramatic effect on the departing characters
-Rick thinking he could just head back to the resort after knocking over Jim Hiollinger and fleeing he and Sritala's house in Bangkok. He is back at their hotel and walking around like he doesn't have a care in the world. Then, with the bodyguards looking for him, he chooses to just sit on a bench waiting for the therapist? That was ridiculous.
-Lochy Ratliff is basically laying there dead but miraculously springs back to life with no medical intervention?

I could go on, but as many of you say, maybe you just have to suspend your logic. However, I didn't think past seasons were so sloppy about tying up each story in such a manner that what has just happened bears no relevance.
 
I agree with all the takes that the ending of riding off on a boat to a beautiful sunset seemed inconsistent with the gun carnage the characters all just witnessed, but I think the main theme of the show is "predatory rich people" so having the rich guests just ride off back to their lives with no concerns at all while the hard working locals are left to deal with the consequences and clean up their mess follows that (even if not particularly realistic). And the epitome of this was Belinda, who went from the "hard working local victim" to "rich a-hole" in the way she peaced on Pornchai.

I also appreciate the shows "Game of Thrones-ness" where you know someone is going to die, but it could literally be any character at any time. That last episode was suspenseful!

I thought the Carrie Coon's speech was a masterful summary of their friend group dynamic.

Finally, it sucks to travel on spring break while watching this show! It makes me feel totally self conscious about everything our family does (especially now while wearing a Duke shirt!).
 
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