Bull City Proud
Member
I realize that, but Duke wins 20 out of 20 if healthy , zero doubt in my opinion
NCAAM East Regional Thread (Duke, ɐɯɐqɐl∀, uᴉsuoɔsᴉM, ɐuozᴉɹ∀)
- Thread starter pfrduke
- Start date
rsvman
Member
Ok. You are entitled to your opinion.
I take it you didn't see it when they completely waxed a team we lost to.
Bull City Proud
Member
I did but the transitive property doesn’t app,y to sports. It’s the matchups and talent that matters
coldriver10
Member
So you don't believe in teams getting hot or going ice cold? Health is obviously a big factor but there is a certain level of randomness in sports that keeps things interesting (and stressful!) and why there are always upsets in the tournament. I've seen us play poorly, I've seen our best players get in foul trouble, and I've seen other teams get hot. Put 2 or 3 of those in the same game and anything can happen.
Fair point that he was an excellent college player and I definitely didn’t appreciate his overall excellence going into that game. AZ weren’t stiffs; but I remember that team pre Kyrie injury and even post they were remarkable.
However making more money than Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith who were both drafter much lower is DEFINITELY NOT doing anything notable in your NBA career. He also made a whole lot less money than Kyrie
I’ll stand by my point that that game was the high point of his basketball career and we got a bit unlucky with how hot he was. But hey that’s the tournament and the best team doesn’t win a lot of years.Bull City Proud
Member
Yes I do and those things are all true,but BYU can’t beat a healthy Duke team.
coldriver10
Member
(I wish I could insert gifs here as there are many applicable to this rather confident contradiction.)
Uh, okay. Hope you don't jinx them!
SkyBrickey
Member
I was talking about VCU upsetting BYU - not Duke. You are truly on a roll tonight.
sagegrouse
Member
Better if on Mountain Time.
If he can play, he will. Jon Scheyer et moi have seen enough of great Duke teams lose their edge while their stars are out (Kyrie, Zion) and not regain it when they return.
Would you have thought we would have beaten Clemson (a 5 seed, better than BYU’s 6) 20 times out of 20 also?
DonerKebab
Member
He also had a decent career in Europe as well.
Until I checked, I couldn’t name one other player on that Arizona team. And I follow college b-ball and the top teams closely each year.Fair point that he was an excellent college player and I definitely didn’t appreciate his overall excellence going into that game. AZ weren’t stiffs; but I remember that team pre Kyrie injury and even post they were remarkable.
However making more money than Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith who were both drafter much lower is DEFINITELY NOT doing anything notable in your NBA career. He also made a whole lot less money than Kyrie
That Kyrie team was amazing. Think about it: despite losing the best player in the country for almost the entire season, they were STILL a #1 seed in the tournament. I don’t know if the story is apocryphal or not but it is said that K at some point said that team, had Kyrie never gotten hurt, might’ve gone undefeated.
kako
Member
As much as I bleed Duke blue, I try to catch myself and be objective about any given team. Sure, it's often with a positive slant (like not closing the door on a player, like this year with Foster, Proctor, etc.). But I shoot for objectivity. And I take my brackets quite seriously (some would say too seriously), so I've been struggling with my bracket for Duke.
There is tremendous focus on Flagg's ankle, as well should be. Realistically, losing your unanimous All-American for the tourney, or having that All-American at less than full speed would be alarming. Hopefully the medical staff (in fact, all of Duke Med! Forget diseases, cure that ankle!) will get that ankle back to normal, and Flagg's time away from full-contact practice will not affect him for crucial games. I am positive here, and I think it's still objective.
What I cannot get past for Duke is the potential lack of Brown for the entire tournament. All the focus has been on Flagg, next to nothing on Brown. I posted after the first shoulder injury that I felt Duke does not win it all without him. And while I am ecstatic that Ngongba has shown himself to be a solid player in the rotation now, defensively he's not Brown. Nobody is. While Flagg got the votes for ACC DPOY, I think Brown is a better defender. He's simply been key in many victories this year. Without him deep in the tourney, I feel Duke's chances get worse and worse. I think metrics really do not really take into account his personal contributions to this team's performance. So while metrics now predict Duke having the best chance to win it all, I am extremely concerned that without Brown, Duke eventually falls. I believe this team still is built on exceptional defense. And I believe that defense is what would win the Devils the natty.
I was encouraged to see Brown not wearing a sling in the ACCT semi and final. But from what I know and understand about shoulder injuries, and the fact that this is Brown's second injury on the same shoulder (the second time not being a result of a major collision), I find myself questioning whether we will see him play again this season. And if so, Duke's best lineups for switching on D, having him available for key stops, his superior on-ball D are gone and all those deflections are gone.
I am often open to players finding their groove again. Johnny D, Redick, Allen, they all lost their shot for a while. Remember how Scheyer lost his during the 09-10 season, then found it again in the tourney? It can happen. But being optimistic about a player regaining his shot is not the same as being optimistic about a player returning from a serious injury. You can have faith in a player to turn his game around. But without resorting to religion, I don't think you can have faith that someone will recover from injury. IMO that's not being objective. And in Brown's case, that would be twice. Three times this year if you count his knee.
I think they can get to San Antonio without Brown. But without him, I objectively just wonder how much further they can go past that, unless weird things happen in matchups. Believe me, I want to be wrong. But they may be playing some combination of Houston, Tenn, Florida, Auburn, Sparty and St. John's - all that would be very tough outs. And I know that Duke could still win it all without him. And Brown could be back. But I am just hesitant to objectively write in Duke's name six times on my bracket if Brown isn't playing in the FF. I may just do it anyway, but still...
I don't expect anyone to like this post. And I'm not trying to be the voice of doom. Like I said, just trying to be objective. So please, tell me why I'm wrong. I have 24 hours to finalize my bracket.
And just so we are all clear, I will be rooting HARD for Duke, no matter what. While what I write on a bracket may be objective, my passion for Duke Basketball is NOT objective.
9F
There is tremendous focus on Flagg's ankle, as well should be. Realistically, losing your unanimous All-American for the tourney, or having that All-American at less than full speed would be alarming. Hopefully the medical staff (in fact, all of Duke Med! Forget diseases, cure that ankle!) will get that ankle back to normal, and Flagg's time away from full-contact practice will not affect him for crucial games. I am positive here, and I think it's still objective.
What I cannot get past for Duke is the potential lack of Brown for the entire tournament. All the focus has been on Flagg, next to nothing on Brown. I posted after the first shoulder injury that I felt Duke does not win it all without him. And while I am ecstatic that Ngongba has shown himself to be a solid player in the rotation now, defensively he's not Brown. Nobody is. While Flagg got the votes for ACC DPOY, I think Brown is a better defender. He's simply been key in many victories this year. Without him deep in the tourney, I feel Duke's chances get worse and worse. I think metrics really do not really take into account his personal contributions to this team's performance. So while metrics now predict Duke having the best chance to win it all, I am extremely concerned that without Brown, Duke eventually falls. I believe this team still is built on exceptional defense. And I believe that defense is what would win the Devils the natty.
I was encouraged to see Brown not wearing a sling in the ACCT semi and final. But from what I know and understand about shoulder injuries, and the fact that this is Brown's second injury on the same shoulder (the second time not being a result of a major collision), I find myself questioning whether we will see him play again this season. And if so, Duke's best lineups for switching on D, having him available for key stops, his superior on-ball D are gone and all those deflections are gone.
I am often open to players finding their groove again. Johnny D, Redick, Allen, they all lost their shot for a while. Remember how Scheyer lost his during the 09-10 season, then found it again in the tourney? It can happen. But being optimistic about a player regaining his shot is not the same as being optimistic about a player returning from a serious injury. You can have faith in a player to turn his game around. But without resorting to religion, I don't think you can have faith that someone will recover from injury. IMO that's not being objective. And in Brown's case, that would be twice. Three times this year if you count his knee.
I think they can get to San Antonio without Brown. But without him, I objectively just wonder how much further they can go past that, unless weird things happen in matchups. Believe me, I want to be wrong. But they may be playing some combination of Houston, Tenn, Florida, Auburn, Sparty and St. John's - all that would be very tough outs. And I know that Duke could still win it all without him. And Brown could be back. But I am just hesitant to objectively write in Duke's name six times on my bracket if Brown isn't playing in the FF. I may just do it anyway, but still...
I don't expect anyone to like this post. And I'm not trying to be the voice of doom. Like I said, just trying to be objective. So please, tell me why I'm wrong. I have 24 hours to finalize my bracket.
And just so we are all clear, I will be rooting HARD for Duke, no matter what. While what I write on a bracket may be objective, my passion for Duke Basketball is NOT objective.
9F
I think your post is fine. I too think Duke will win their 6th NCAAT Championship, but a lot has to go right. The 1999 team proved that. As for Brown, I think he is a great defender, but I think Cooper is the best defender because he's a better rebounder and rebounding is part of defense. My main concern is Cooper may not be 100%. However, we have enough talent to carry us this weekend without Cooper at 100%. Beyond that could be a problem. I picked Duke in about 95% of my brackets because Duke is the best team in the nation when 100% healthy.
GoDuke!
NYBri
Member
It’s a bracket. No need to stress. LGD!
sagegrouse
Member
Terps coach Gary Williams said that.
As many recall, AZ made two perfectly guarded 3-pointers in the waning moments of the 1st half, one at the buzzer, cutting the Duke lead to about six, and then racing off the court at halftime. Sir Charles predicted with that incredible energy on display, Arizona would win the game.
Still hurts.
SkyBrickey
Member
I think Brown will be back. Two things point to it. Duke hasn't publicly ruled him out yet. And when this happened last time, Brown had been telling Jon for 2 weeks that he was ready to play before returning to action.
He will need offseason shoulder surgery now no matter what. So my bet is Brown will choose to give it another try starting either with the S16 or E8 game. It's a once in a lifetime kind of moment for Brown.
Disclaimer - I know nothing.
Dr. Maturin
Member
Having him back for the regionals would be massive. I mentioned upthread that several of our potential E8 opponents spread you out and shoot 3s. I think Pat could contribute against Arizona in the Sweet 16. But having Maliq would unlock our 1-5 switching and would really make a difference against a team like Alabama.
I think it was Marty Clark who never fouled
Nessley averaged 1.6 fouls in average 7.9 minutes. He fouled
MChambers
Member
There's an interesting article by Brendan Marks on Scheyer's approach to this season. Basically, he decided he'd never forgive himself if he didn't go for it in Cooper's single college season (as @SkyBrickey suggested, I think).
It's paywalled, unfortunately, but this link may work for you: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/62...lagg-march-madness/?source=emp_shared_article
Among other things, I learned about Scheyer's frank conversations with the seven players who transferred and with which coaching professionals Scheyer consults: Will Hardy, Utah HC, Chris Finch, Minnesota HC, Redick, Snyder, Joe Mazzulla, and . . . wait for it . . . Brad Stevens.
It's paywalled, unfortunately, but this link may work for you: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/62...lagg-march-madness/?source=emp_shared_article
Among other things, I learned about Scheyer's frank conversations with the seven players who transferred and with which coaching professionals Scheyer consults: Will Hardy, Utah HC, Chris Finch, Minnesota HC, Redick, Snyder, Joe Mazzulla, and . . . wait for it . . . Brad Stevens.