Bob's your Uncle.
MBB: Duke vs. Kentucky (11/12, 9pm ET, ESPN) Pregame and In-Game Thread
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GAME DAY!!!!!
Here's what I am interested in...
-This is really the national college debut of Cooper Flagg. How will he perform? Because of the way our society operates, it feels like there is a pent up vault of hot takes waiting for him to be subpar. I understand that because the hype has been so insane, but I also think that he is the kind of kid who doesn't have a "bad game" because scoring is not his primary goal. How do you stop a guy from dominating on defense? How do you stop a guy from crashing the offensive glass? How do you stop a guy from getting out in transition? One of the knocks on Duke is that we are "led by freshmen". I also understand why people think that is a weakness based on recent history, but I also think that Cooper Flagg is no ordinary freshman. So, I am really interested to see if, when out on this huge stage with the whole country watching, he plays, and carries himself, like the best player on the court? We need him to.
-Defense. From the pieces of the Bucknell game I watched, both teams like to push the ball and shoot a lot of 3s. We don't go about it in the same way, but the goal is a paint touch followed by a kick-out and let it fly. Based on the coach's respective reputations, and the players, we should be a better defensive team. Let's see it. This feels like a game where we win if they get easy 2s instead of easy 3s. Even better if they have to take a lot of midrange 2s.
-Per the above, I am most curious about our defense at the 5. Can Man Man guard Kentucky's 5-out spread? If not, and we go to Maliq more frequently, will our size be an issue?
-With Pope's egalitarian rotation, will we match it by playing 9-10 guys?
LET'S GO!!!!
Here's what I am interested in...
-This is really the national college debut of Cooper Flagg. How will he perform? Because of the way our society operates, it feels like there is a pent up vault of hot takes waiting for him to be subpar. I understand that because the hype has been so insane, but I also think that he is the kind of kid who doesn't have a "bad game" because scoring is not his primary goal. How do you stop a guy from dominating on defense? How do you stop a guy from crashing the offensive glass? How do you stop a guy from getting out in transition? One of the knocks on Duke is that we are "led by freshmen". I also understand why people think that is a weakness based on recent history, but I also think that Cooper Flagg is no ordinary freshman. So, I am really interested to see if, when out on this huge stage with the whole country watching, he plays, and carries himself, like the best player on the court? We need him to.
-Defense. From the pieces of the Bucknell game I watched, both teams like to push the ball and shoot a lot of 3s. We don't go about it in the same way, but the goal is a paint touch followed by a kick-out and let it fly. Based on the coach's respective reputations, and the players, we should be a better defensive team. Let's see it. This feels like a game where we win if they get easy 2s instead of easy 3s. Even better if they have to take a lot of midrange 2s.
-Per the above, I am most curious about our defense at the 5. Can Man Man guard Kentucky's 5-out spread? If not, and we go to Maliq more frequently, will our size be an issue?
-With Pope's egalitarian rotation, will we match it by playing 9-10 guys?
LET'S GO!!!!
brevity
Member
It's Game Day.
Interesting choice of image below -- this is a homecoming for Sion James, who played high school ball in Georgia -- as did Cameron Sheffield. Fun fact: Kentucky's roster has as many Europeans (Amari Williams and Kerr Kriisa) as it does Southerners (Trent Noah and Travis Perry).
(source)
Some updates:
- I started this thread before the Week 2 AP poll was released, so Duke is now ranked #6 (up from #7), while Kentucky rose from #23 to #19.
- Here are Duke's PDF game notes and Kentucky's PDF game notes. Dan Shulman, Jay Bilas, and Jess Sims will announce the game.
- In addition to watching the game on your television, you can stream the regular broadcast (ESPN) or the Spanish language broadcast (ESPN3). I recommend the latter, if only to hear the announcer yell, "Holy frijoles! Kon Knueppel con el triple!"
- Listening options: If you subscribe to Sirius XM satellite radio, the main ESPN broadcast will be on channel 80. You can stream audio from the Blue Devil Sports Network online, with the Varsity app, and probably on Sirius XM channel 161 or 193. (In the alternative, UK Athletics offers a livestream of the UK Sports Network. It may also be available on Sirius XM channels 106 or 190.)
- Finally, a link to live stats. It's hard to find them before game day when the teams play at a neutral site.
- Podcast previews abound, from Duke Basketball Roundup and also The Field of 68, Locked on College Basketball, and Sleepers Media.
- A couple of videos from the other side. UK Athletics posted a brief Champions Classic hype video that mixes archival footage with recent clips, and carries the message, "We're not competing for a championship today, but we are going to play like it." Kentucky Sports Radio (the On3 affiliate) has a Duke preview with Wildcat starters Amari Williams and Otega Oweh.
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Dr. Maturin
Member
This is going to be a much different UK team. Mark Pope's BYU took more than half their shots from 3 last year (though interestingly, none of his previous teams were nearly as 3 happy). A look at his history doesn't reveal too many stylistic quirks, though his offenses tend to be better than his defenses. I'm guessing we'll see a more cohesive and well-coached Kentucky, albeit one with less NBA talent. It should be a pretty good matchup, as both teams have size and shooting. We'll see whether talent or experience wins out.
A brief scouting report on the players for Kentucky this year. As has been noted, it's a VERY veteran group... but also a group that has no prior experience together. 9 transfers, 3 freshmen. Their rotation so far includes 6 super-seniors, 1 regular senior, 1 junior, 1 sophomore, and 1 freshman. We will have slightly more continuity with Proctor and Foster having played together last year, but they'll have a huge edge in physical maturity and experience.
Starters:
Amari Williams (7'0", 262lb): basically no offensive game, but rugged and athletic enough. Was the CAA DPoY three straight years, so it's clear what his game is: defense, rebounding, and shotblocking. He does both pretty well. He can't shoot, but he's tough around the basket.
Andrew Carr (6'11", 235lb): folks here should be familiar with him from his two years at Wake. He's a terrific shooter from all over the floor. He's a bit of a Ryan Kelly type of player: lanky and slow, and not a great rebounder, but a dangerous offensive player.
Jaxson Robinson (6'6", 192lbs): very skinny, primarily a shooter/gunner from the perimeter. Takes the vast majority of his shots from 3, and is more of a secondary player than a go-to threat. He's a system guy for Pope, having played with him the past two years at BYU. Streaky shooter and more of a volume scorer than an efficient one, but he's dangerous from outside. Was Big-12 Sixth-man of the year and All-Big 12 Honorable Mention last year.
Otega Oweh (6'4", 215lb): Oweh is built like Sion James, and is a similar type of player aside from passing. He's a good 3pt shooter and good athlete with good ballhawking skills. Very tough in transition. Extremely strong, physical specimen. Solid ballhandler, and excellent when he gets downhill.
Lamont Butler (6'2", 208lb): A rugged, tenacious defender, not so much an offensive presence. He's kind of the Wildcats' version of Maliq Brown, only in guard form. He is extremely pesky and disruptive. Was 3-time MWC all-defense and MWC DPoY last year. He's not a good shooter and generally has been a poor offensive player in college, but his defense plays for sure.
Bench:
Koby Brea (6'7", 215lb): Nominally a bench player, he leads the team in minutes and scoring. He's a better version of Jaxson Robinson. An elite 3pt shooter. He doesn't do much else offensively, but he shoots the 3 as well as anyone in college bball (literally: he led he nation in 3pt percentage last year and is shooting 83% so far this year). Two-time A10 Sixth-man winner.
Brandon Garrison (6'10", 250lb): A rangy big man who knows his role. He's a good shotblocker and decent rebounder with a limited offensive game. But he's unselfish and a hard worker, running the court well and filling his lane well. A very solid role player off the bench for the Wildcats.
Kerr Kriisa (6'3", 185lb): Kriisa is an elite passer and overall offensive player. However, he's a poor defender. Very high ball-IQ, but below-average athletically. Good shooter overall, but very streaky. Not a very physical player, but his court vision and awareness are top-notch with the ball in his hands.
Deeper bench (i.e., guys who might get squeezed in this one):
Ansley Almonor (6'7", 244lb): Not super athletic, but a rugged player and good shooter. He's kind of a poor man's Blake Hinson: an underheighted PF who can shoot and bang inside, but tends to fall in love with his outside shot. But because he can shoot, and can get hot, he can be dangerous. Not much of a defender.
Collin Chandler (6'5", 202lb): A former BYU recruit who followed Pope East to UK. He's a Mormon kid, so he's a 21-year-old freshman. A former top-40 recruit, he's very athletic and explosive off the dribble, and a good 3pt shooter.
Unlike our previous two opponents, we won't have any sort of size advantage. We should be more athletic than the Wildcats though. But they are experienced, well-coached, and have some really good shooters. So it's going to be a tough game. We'll be slightly favored (as we likely will be until the final game of the regular season), but it should be a battle.
Starters:
Amari Williams (7'0", 262lb): basically no offensive game, but rugged and athletic enough. Was the CAA DPoY three straight years, so it's clear what his game is: defense, rebounding, and shotblocking. He does both pretty well. He can't shoot, but he's tough around the basket.
Andrew Carr (6'11", 235lb): folks here should be familiar with him from his two years at Wake. He's a terrific shooter from all over the floor. He's a bit of a Ryan Kelly type of player: lanky and slow, and not a great rebounder, but a dangerous offensive player.
Jaxson Robinson (6'6", 192lbs): very skinny, primarily a shooter/gunner from the perimeter. Takes the vast majority of his shots from 3, and is more of a secondary player than a go-to threat. He's a system guy for Pope, having played with him the past two years at BYU. Streaky shooter and more of a volume scorer than an efficient one, but he's dangerous from outside. Was Big-12 Sixth-man of the year and All-Big 12 Honorable Mention last year.
Otega Oweh (6'4", 215lb): Oweh is built like Sion James, and is a similar type of player aside from passing. He's a good 3pt shooter and good athlete with good ballhawking skills. Very tough in transition. Extremely strong, physical specimen. Solid ballhandler, and excellent when he gets downhill.
Lamont Butler (6'2", 208lb): A rugged, tenacious defender, not so much an offensive presence. He's kind of the Wildcats' version of Maliq Brown, only in guard form. He is extremely pesky and disruptive. Was 3-time MWC all-defense and MWC DPoY last year. He's not a good shooter and generally has been a poor offensive player in college, but his defense plays for sure.
Bench:
Koby Brea (6'7", 215lb): Nominally a bench player, he leads the team in minutes and scoring. He's a better version of Jaxson Robinson. An elite 3pt shooter. He doesn't do much else offensively, but he shoots the 3 as well as anyone in college bball (literally: he led he nation in 3pt percentage last year and is shooting 83% so far this year). Two-time A10 Sixth-man winner.
Brandon Garrison (6'10", 250lb): A rangy big man who knows his role. He's a good shotblocker and decent rebounder with a limited offensive game. But he's unselfish and a hard worker, running the court well and filling his lane well. A very solid role player off the bench for the Wildcats.
Kerr Kriisa (6'3", 185lb): Kriisa is an elite passer and overall offensive player. However, he's a poor defender. Very high ball-IQ, but below-average athletically. Good shooter overall, but very streaky. Not a very physical player, but his court vision and awareness are top-notch with the ball in his hands.
Deeper bench (i.e., guys who might get squeezed in this one):
Ansley Almonor (6'7", 244lb): Not super athletic, but a rugged player and good shooter. He's kind of a poor man's Blake Hinson: an underheighted PF who can shoot and bang inside, but tends to fall in love with his outside shot. But because he can shoot, and can get hot, he can be dangerous. Not much of a defender.
Collin Chandler (6'5", 202lb): A former BYU recruit who followed Pope East to UK. He's a Mormon kid, so he's a 21-year-old freshman. A former top-40 recruit, he's very athletic and explosive off the dribble, and a good 3pt shooter.
Unlike our previous two opponents, we won't have any sort of size advantage. We should be more athletic than the Wildcats though. But they are experienced, well-coached, and have some really good shooters. So it's going to be a tough game. We'll be slightly favored (as we likely will be until the final game of the regular season), but it should be a battle.
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The Field of 68 preview that brevity linked above is a pretty classic example of how I feel Duke is being perceived. They reference Duke -5 and spend a lot of time talking about how that is a lot of points, how Kentucky is underrated, how they have "grown men", etc. But then they all think Duke will win but maybe not cover. Terrance Ogelsby seems the most bullish on us of the 3, but he's also an ACC homer.
kAzE
Member
I watched way too much coverage of this game. A lot of the internet "experts" are picking Kentucky to win outright. It seems like quite the trendy pick. Normally, with a team starting 3 freshmen I think they would have a point. These aren't normal freshmen.
UK is definitely a high powered offense, no question about it. I just don't think they have anyone who can credibly defend Cooper (or Kon for that matter). Also, our defense is better. Their best 2 defensive players are Butler and Oweh, who are 6'2" and 6'4" respectively. Maybe our guards will have a tough time, but I can see Kon and Cooper going off in this one.
As long as Khaman and Cooper can stay out of foul trouble (and cramp trouble), I like our chances in this game.
I think Oweh and Butler could defend Knueppel in isolation. But what makes Kon so dangerous is that defenses can't lag off him at all. If he drifts off-ball and finds space, he can punish you. And I definitely don't think they have anyone ideally suited to defend Flagg. UNLESS: they go unconventional and let one of those two small guys try to get low on Flagg and disrupt him. The "weakest" part of Flagg's game may be the high dribble (well, that or streaky shooting), and Butler could prove pesky in that way. Flagg could play over Butler, but you just never know how a player will respond to an undersized guy yapping at his heels.
That said, in the modern game it's really hard to avoid mismatches. And the Wildcats don't have the defensive depth to withstand a series of screens to get the matchups Duke wants. If we're patient, we should be able to punish guys. Neither Carr nor Williams can guard Flagg in space. So if we can get that matchup, it should play to our advantage.
But, I think the biggest X factor may be shooting. Kentucky can shoot the 3 from multiple positions, just like us. So if we struggle a bit from 3 and they are hot, the upset is feasible.
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MChambers
Member
Or just force them to switch on our wings, with ManMan rolling to the basket.
SavDukeGrad
Member
In the past, our freshmen “stars” always excelled in these early season big games under Coach K. I’m sure Kentucky would like to forget Zion and RJ in 2018, or Paolo in 2021. Coach K seemed to have a knack for getting the team firing on all cylinders early in the season. Let’s hope Scheyer has inherited this ability, and that our freshmen can excel. Agree there is a lot of outside pressure on Cooper to “live up to expectations” in this game, but pressure doesn’t ever seem to have bothered him before. Let’s go!
Phredd3
Member
Yes, but I think you have to establish the threat by doing the pick-and-pop a time or two to keep their coverage honest. Otherwise the big just plays drop when defending against that screen.
kAzE
Member
Are you sure about that? I’m not going to put a ceiling on him yet until I see his limits. Right now, I don’t know if ANYONE on UK’s roster can guard Kon 1 on 1 given enough space. We had first hand accounts of him giving nonstop buckets to Cooper and Maliq in practice 1 on 1.
He doesn’t need to blow by anyone to score. He’s so physical and strong, I think those 2 guards are too small to keep him out of the paint. His handle in traffic is excellent as well. He’s good at using his body to protect the ball.
I think you need to have a longer, stronger athlete to give him trouble. But if even Maliq can’t stop him, I’m not sure what type of defender really can.
I'm curious about their offense. CDu's lineup profile described several starters and rotation players who are fairly limited on offense, and several guys who are excellent shooters but not much else. A team with great shooters and little shot creation or dynamism might be limited against better teams, unless it has an exceptional offensive scheme. But maybe I misinterpreted what I'm reading about their players.
Based on what I have seen of this year's team, and Pope's past BYU squads, I'd say they are scheme dependent and that it is an excellent scheme. We have to stay home on shooters, and sometimes that drives fans crazy because you wind up giving up easy shots near the rim. I am having flashbacks to our pick-you-poison approach to DJ Burns where "letting him eat" while we stayed home on shooters once led to a big win, and the other time led to a painful defeat. We'll see.
robed deity
Member
This feels like a game we could lose right now but win later. K's teams would have a statement game and probably blitz Kentucky right now, but Scheyers' teams seem to follow a different path. I'm totally ok with that, and might even prefer it to some extent (though it may hurt our seeding?).
If pressed, I say Duke wins a tight battle, especially if Cooper can stay on the court for most of the game. He hasn't had to yet, but there will be games this year where he is all over the court and won't let Duke lose. He may relish that opportunity in his first big time game.
If pressed, I say Duke wins a tight battle, especially if Cooper can stay on the court for most of the game. He hasn't had to yet, but there will be games this year where he is all over the court and won't let Duke lose. He may relish that opportunity in his first big time game.
No, I'm not sure about it. I said "could", meaning "it may be possible" and not "definitely able to guard him." It is possible that even they can't do it.
My reasoning is just that those guys are the type of physical players with low centers of gravity that can give players trouble off the dribble. It may be that Knueppel is too good for them anyway. Fingers crossed that he is. But I'm open to the possibility that those guys may be able to do it.
dukebluesincebirth
Member
Agree, but as we've seen in previous years, we need to win these big early season matchups against non-con teams. We may get much better throughout the season, but when NCAAT selection time comes around, we'll be left searching for Q1 wins against teams that play in a higher rated conference. We're not sure who's gonna emerge from the ACC this year, but in recent years the league hasn't given us the high quality wins we need to grab the top seeds. I want this team to have a 1 seed in March. I predict UK will have trouble defending us without fouling... so, maybe this comes down to making free throws, especially in the clutch. LETS GO DEVILS!!!
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