MBB: Duke 96, Maine 62 Post Game Thread

[scottdude8]

Good start but plenty to improve on.

We lack size in the paint unless Maluach can improve dramatically.

All signs point to that happening over the course of the season though, not only based on his skillset but our recent history of developing bigs over the course of the season.

Also (and I know I'm a broken record here, but this is such a relevant point), how many teams have more size in the paint than we do without Maluach? Maliq is 6-9 and Coop is 6-8. Those are appropriate sizes for the 5 and 4, respectively, in the modern game, particularly when they have the athleticism of those two guys. The teams that have an old-school, beefy big are few and far between, and while it might be challenging for us to defend such guys if Maluach doesn't improve, I'd argue our advantage offensively against such a team would outweigh the deficit defensively.

If the lack of size in the paint is our biggest point of concern, I think that speaks well to this team's chances

 

[JayZee]

First thought is Kon not Cooper will be the next hated Duke guy

I don’t know. I just don’t think Kon is demonstrative enough to attract Laettner, Collins, Wojo, JJ, Grayson type hate. Coop has more of that vibe, but I think/hope he’s gonna have a little more Zion vibe than JJ vibe nationally. Assuming he doesn’t give some fallen UK player a love tap with his shoe…

 

[crote]

All signs point to that happening over the course of the season though, not only based on his skillset but our recent history of developing bigs over the course of the season.

Also (and I know I'm a broken record here, but this is such a relevant point), how many teams have more size in the paint than we do without Maluach? Maliq is 6-9 and Coop is 6-8. Those are appropriate sizes for the 5 and 4, respectively, in the modern game, particularly when they have the athleticism of those two guys. The teams that have an old-school, beefy big are few and far between, and while it might be challenging for us to defend such guys if Maluach doesn't improve, I'd argue our advantage offensively against such a team would outweigh the deficit defensively.

If the lack of size in the paint is our biggest point of concern, I think that speaks well to this team's chances

Just looking at the non-con, there's Kansas (Hunter Dickinson, 7'2"), Auburn (Johni Broome, 6'10"), Arizona (Motiejus Krivas, 7'2", Henri Veesaar, 7'0"), and Kentucky (Amari Williams, 7'0", Andrew Carr 6'11").

Obviously the matchup problem between a mobile smaller big and a plodding big big go both ways, but opponents with at least a height advantage in the paint is something Duke will have to contend with a fair amount if Maluach can't stay on the court.

 

[kako]

And the season starts. Praise The GOAT! 5 thoughts...

1. A more telling game than either of the pre-season ones (man, Hurley and ASU has a looong way to go). Glad Maine hung in there for a bit, just to give a bit more competitiveness feel for Duke. But despite Maine's early reasonable play, talent rose to the top and thus we had a blowout. 1-0.

2. I didn't get a good feel for any particular 5 on the floor yet. I suspect we won't for a bit. Eventually I think the staff needs to go with a starting 5, with regular rotational subs depending on the opponent. As usual, performance in practice dictates the tail end of the rotation. But some guys are just not going to be regular players, unless Duke rolls everyone to the garbage-time point. Keeping them happy (and for the underclassmen, in a Duke uni next year) will be tough even if Duke always wins.

3. Flagg, Kon (I usually just write last names, but I don't think Kon will stay long enough for me to memorize how to spell his last name - it took me a couple of years to spell Krzyzewski) and Maluach have been discussed a lot already. Essentially "great potential, still needs some fine tuning." I want to see them against the big boys coming up. But I, too, am hopeful.

4. I like James. He doesn't look like a typical guard that Duke has had lately - he looks much more physical, stronger, etc. And he can bully smaller bodies... Brown can definitely play some D. It will be go great to have a defensive stopper to bring in... Gillis just plays smart. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time.

5. I see the discussion about Foster at PG. Here's what I think - your PG needs to shoot well from the line. Foster shot 69% last year and was 0-2 last night. It's very early in the season. But I'm watching this.

9F

 

[Indoor66]

62% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I thought that was 66%.

 

[accfanfrom1970]

5. I see the discussion about Foster at PG. Here's what I think - your PG needs to shoot well from the line. Foster shot 69% last year and was 0-2 last night. It's very early in the season. But I'm watching this.

This bothered me as well, and they didn't even look good.

 

[Dr. Maturin]

Nice win!

- Duke did not have a single shot blocked. Last year, 12% of our 2 point attempts were blocked, which was #342nd in the country. I suspect that number will be much better this year.

- We covered the spread despite our opponent going 17/18 from the line. This could have been a 40 point blowout.

- Maine had just 4 assists. It's clear we are trying to bring our height to bear on opponents and force them to beat us 1 on 1. In the first half, Maine made a few tough shots, but predictably, they couldn't keep it up. We forced 25 midrange jumpers while only attempting 8 ourselves. That's a winning shot creation formula.

- For all the talk of Kon's shooting, he was 5/6 at the rim. I really like his moves when he gets near the basket. Reminds me a bit of sophomore Luke Kennard.

- Mason Gillis is a rotation player. He may be the 8th guy, but I don't see how Jon keeps him off the court. Really savvy player and one of our best defenders last night. The box score credits him with just 3 rebounds, but I remember specifically noting the quality of his box outs on a few occasions.

- Speaking of depth, that appears to be the biggest difference between 2024 and 2025. Last year's bench of Foster/Young/Blakes/Stewart/Power (with no Foster in March) would get smoked by this year's bench of James/Gillis/Brown/Evans/Harris.

- I really am not sure what Jon's plan is with Proctor. He played off the ball and had no assists. He attempted one two pointer and five 3s. That's a stat line of a catch and shoot 2 guard, and I don't see that as Proctor's game at all. IMO, we need Tyrese driving the ball looking to score and dish. If Jon prefers to have Foster bring the ball up the court, fine. But I was very surprised to see Tyrese off the ball and Sion James take over ball handling duties when Foster was on the bench. To be clear, I'm not hung up over the "point guard" term; a team like this should have a bunch of guys who initiate the offense. But I am curious about Jon's plans for Proctor.

- I wonder what others think, but I don't love the new scoreboard. At least the side that faces the baseline. It is oddly shaped in that only a small portion of the screen shows the video feed and a lot is taken up by ads.

 

[Kfanarmy]

Good game. Need to work on being a bit more crisp in their movement. Should come with more game experience and settling on some specific lineups. Watched UNC and Elon after the Duke game, and while ELON hung around, even taking the lead with about 5 minutes remaining, it seemed both teams were quicker/sharper in movement than Duke and Maine.

 

[Lurkingdukedog]

A couple of box score observations:
-Cooper drew 8 fouls! He also went 6-6 from the line
-Darren Harris managed to get to the line for 5 FTs in less than 4 minutes, and he scored 6 points. Caveats about garbage time aside, that kid is a walking bucket
-Had it not been for Cooper's early exit due to the cramp, he and Kon would have been the only guys over 30 minutes. Brendan Marks of the Athletic quoted Gillis thusly, "“They’re going to be who we’re going to, and it’s up to them to be prepared every single day.”

Yes. Unfortunately, he only hit one of three on the three-pointer on which he was fouled. Foster missed some FT, too that he needs to make.

 

[azzefkram]

Just looking at the non-con, there's Kansas (Hunter Dickinson, 7'2"), Auburn (Johni Broome, 6'10"), Arizona (Motiejus Krivas, 7'2", Henri Veesaar, 7'0"), and Kentucky (Amari Williams, 7'0", Andrew Carr 6'11").

Obviously the matchup problem between a mobile smaller big and a plodding big big go both ways, but opponents with at least a height advantage in the paint is something Duke will have to contend with a fair amount if Maluach can't stay on the court.

So, the types of teams that Duke may face in the NCAA Tourney. I'm not sure why Duke would want to be prepared for that.

 

[kAzE]

- Duke did not have a single shot blocked. Last year, 12% of our 2 point attempts were blocked, which was #342nd in the country. I suspect that number will be much better this year.

I saw Jeremy Roach get his shot swatted twice before I turned off the Baylor/Gonzaga non-contest. I maintain Roach probably holds the Duke record for getting his own shot blocked. It says something positive about his fearlessness going to the paint, but he's just a little too small to justify that confidence.

 

[Ruffdaddy]

Is it possible to have too many good players and be too tall? If we play 10-11 players all year, rhythm and consistency will be harder to come by. And even switching 1-4, a team that plays 2 or 3 shorter, quicker guys will provide challenges. But it's going to be so much fun watching this team deal with those challenges. Really like the three transfers, they provide physicality and maturity that will be invaluable.

 

[crote]

So, the types of teams that Duke may face in the NCAA Tourney. I'm not sure why Duke would want to be prepared for that.

I missed Illinois, who starts a 7'1" guy. If nothing else, Duke will have plenty of practice contending with teams that have serious size in the paint.

Duke has excellent positional size and depth everywhere other than the 5 (and of course Man Man is big, but he's the only one on the roster). If you had to pick one or the other, I'd rather be in Duke's position.

 

[ChillinDuke]

<snip>

- I really am not sure what Jon's plan is with Proctor. He played off the ball and had no assists. He attempted one two pointer and five 3s. That's a stat line of a catch and shoot 2 guard, and I don't see that as Proctor's game at all. IMO, we need Tyrese driving the ball looking to score and dish. If Jon prefers to have Foster bring the ball up the court, fine. But I was very surprised to see Tyrese off the ball and Sion James take over ball handling duties when Foster was on the bench. To be clear, I'm not hung up over the "point guard" term; a team like this should have a bunch of guys who initiate the offense. But I am curious about Jon's plans for Proctor.

<snip>

I've seen a few people ask this, so I'll reconfirm as it's been mentioned on broadcasts. In so many words, Jon moving Tyrese off-ball is avoiding a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none situation. Jon seemingly believes, rightly or wrongly, that Tyrese is not today a transcendent star PG capable of doing all the things that PGs do. So to maximize his talent, the goal is to make Tyrese focus on less on-court tasks in an effort to be really good at the tasks he does focus on.

I take this to mean 3-and-D. We already know his D is good. I think Jon wants to see Tyrese improve his 3P% to become more of a dead-eye out there. Tyrese doesn't really finish all that well, and he isn't fantastic at breaking down his man, his first step is a little slow - so moving him off-ball takes the pressure off him to do those things that he doesn't do very well in favor of asking him to do the other things very well.

That's the theory, at least. And I'm sure Jon reserves the right to change his mind.

- Chillin

 

[scottdude8]

Just looking at the non-con, there's Kansas (Hunter Dickinson, 7'2"), Auburn (Johni Broome, 6'10"), Arizona (Motiejus Krivas, 7'2", Henri Veesaar, 7'0"), and Kentucky (Amari Williams, 7'0", Andrew Carr 6'11").

Obviously the matchup problem between a mobile smaller big and a plodding big big go both ways, but opponents with at least a height advantage in the paint is something Duke will have to contend with a fair amount if Maluach can't stay on the court.

Fair enough. But why are we operating under that as our premise? In his first game, Khaman played 18 minutes and only committed two fouls, while shooting 3-for-3 from the floor with 6 rebounds, 3 blocks (not to mention many more altered shots), and just one TO. That's a pretty solid performance from a rookie big!!! Yes, the 18 minutes stands out a bit, but to my eye that was more a subject of Maliq playing very well and us getting into garbage time early rather than Khaman not being able to stay on the floor or hold his own. He's of course got a ton of improving to do, but I don't see the reason for pessimism (unless I'm misinterpreting your posts and in which case I apologize )

So, the types of teams that Duke may face in the NCAA Tourney. I'm not sure why Duke would want to be prepared for that.

Sort of... it's been pretty well documented that teams with those types of bigs have tended to underperform in the tourney. Dickinson has had those troubles himself, and before breaking through last year with a truly transcendent performance, Edey's squads also struggled in the tourney. If we play one of those teams in the tourney I'd argue it's because another element of their squad is really, really good that will likely be more of a concern than, "Can 6-foot-9 Maliq Brown hold his own for 15 minutes against a bigger center?"

 

[SkyBrickey]

Jon has so many options with this team on both sides of the ball it's head spinning.

Maine did a better job last night than ASU at staying on our shooters and trying to deny open 3s. This is what we should expect to see from good defenses this year which will force us to drive the ball and make plays in the paint.

Who can we trust on offense to do this consistently, to be the guys to make high percentage plays with the ball?

Caleb, Cooper, Kon, Tyrese, Sion? They all have their pros/cons driving the ball and being that playmaker. A great playmaker will be able to read the defense and drive hard to the rim and score, or adjust with a floater, or lob to the big, or kick out to a shooter or secondary driver.

I'm expecting the main 3 to be Caleb, Cooper, Kon as the season goes on. Caleb is so good off the dribble and finishing at the rim. Hope to see him making more plays for others.

 

[evrim]

Sort of... it's been pretty well documented that teams with those types of bigs have tended to underperform in the tourney. Dickinson has had those troubles himself, and before breaking through last year with a truly transcendent performance, Edey's squads also struggled in the tourney. If we play one of those teams in the tourney I'd argue it's because another element of their squad is really, really good that will likely be more of a concern than, "Can 6-foot-9 Maliq Brown hold his own for 15 minutes against a bigger center?"

If we look at bigger as only with respect to height. DJ Burns types might be harder to control - some height and lots of "body". Getting Ngongba back would be great.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Fair enough. But why are we operating under that as our premise? In his first game, Khaman played 18 minutes and only committed two fouls, while shooting 3-for-3 from the floor with 6 rebounds, 3 blocks (not to mention many more altered shots), and just one TO. That's a pretty solid performance from a rookie big!!! Yes, the 18 minutes stands out a bit, but to my eye that was more a subject of Maliq playing very well and us getting into garbage time early rather than Khaman not being able to stay on the floor or hold his own. He's of course got a ton of improving to do, but I don't see the reason for pessimism (unless I'm misinterpreting your posts and in which case I apologize )

Sort of... it's been pretty well documented that teams with those types of bigs have tended to underperform in the tourney. Dickinson has had those troubles himself, and before breaking through last year with a truly transcendent performance, Edey's squads also struggled in the tourney. If we play one of those teams in the tourney I'd argue it's because another element of their squad is really, really good that will likely be more of a concern than, "Can 6-foot-9 Maliq Brown hold his own for 15 minutes against a bigger center?"

I am very high on both Khaman and Brown at the 5 based on these early games. ASU went at Khaman and he played great defensively without fouling. Maine clearly saw that tape and barely tried to challenge him inside.

It seems like our coaching staff is seeing these two guys as equally available to play big minutes depending on the matchup. Both Brown and Maluach can wreak havoc defensively, just in very different ways. Against Kentucky I'll be watching how well we rebound when Maluach is out of the game - may or may not be an issue.

 

[SkyBrickey]

If we look at bigger as only with respect to height. DJ Burns types might be harder to control - some height and lots of "body". Getting Ngongba back would be great.

I guess it's possible Pat helps us with a Burns-like player. Would be good to have a third option.

But it's also possible that Brown denies him the ball and pokes it away every time he catches it. And that Khaman plays behind him and forces him to miss every shot over a 9-8 standing reach.

In my mind, defense at the 5 is a big strength of this team and not something to worry much about. More interesting to see how Jon plays his two weapons against different style teams.

 

[crote]

Fair enough. But why are we operating under that as our premise? In his first game, Khaman played 18 minutes and only committed two fouls, while shooting 3-for-3 from the floor with 6 rebounds, 3 blocks (not to mention many more altered shots), and just one TO. That's a pretty solid performance from a rookie big!!! Yes, the 18 minutes stands out a bit, but to my eye that was more a subject of Maliq playing very well and us getting into garbage time early rather than Khaman not being able to stay on the floor or hold his own. He's of course got a ton of improving to do, but I don't see the reason for pessimism (unless I'm misinterpreting your posts and in which case I apologize )

It was your premise! The posed question was, "how many teams have more size in the paint than we do without Maluach?" Quite a few, it turns out.

I agree that it's too early to declare one way or the other how foul prone Maluach is going to be (although history would suggest that will be a struggle for a freshman center, especially one with as short a basketball history as Khaman). But even if he proves unusually good at avoiding foul trouble in general, there will still be stretches where Duke has to fare without him (because of an outlier foul trouble game, or just when he's on the bench). How Duke handles opponents with size in non-Maluach minutes is something to watch, although I'm not super worried about it (faith in the Coop-Brown frontcourt and the excellent positional size elsewhere on the court being the main reasons).