MBB: Duke 89, Jeremy Roach and Friends 66—Postgame

[Indoor66]

K

This team is also WAY deeper than the 1999 team. The '99 team had Corey Maggette as an impact player off the bench, and that was pretty much it. Nate James - who only played about 15 minutes a game and played a scoreless 6 minutes in the title games against UConn - was very inconsistent, and didn't turn into the reliable vet that he was until the following season, when he started 33 games.

I was a freshman at Duke in 1999 and followed that team closely. Even though it was a statistically dominant team, I don't think it was as good as many Duke fans remember it to have been, especially compared to Duke's other title teams (particularly the Hurley/Laettner/Hill back-to-back teams). One of the primary reasons for that was the extremely shallow bench of the '99 team. Another overlooked reason was that ACC was also really weak that season. After the nationally ranked Duke, Maryland, and UNC teams, the rest of the league was below .500 in conference play and devoid of good NBA talent. UNC's best NBA pro that season was Brendan Haywood, who was more of a role player despite starting most of his career, having averaged double digit points only once.

Haywood was enough of a role player to parlay it into a 14 year NBA career and one Championship.

 

[jv001]

Wow, I was not prepared to deal with all of that trauma today. 2004 and 2006 in particular still hurt viscerally.

JJ was not in the Christian Laettner NCAAT company. But he was a very good player that has his jersey hanging from the rafters in CIS.

GoDuke!

 

[ClemmonsDevil]

Look at our completely absurd shooting stats yesterday, as well as our taking their primary rebounder out of the game with foul trouble, and tell me we didn't play well.

Agreed. Play like that 4 more times and Duke wins the title and every game by double digits. Here for it.

 

[Oriole Way]

K

Haywood was enough of a role player to parlay it into a 14 year NBA career and one Championship.

Correct, he was a solid rebounder and decent shotblocker, and scored just enough to be a passable starting center. But he was a role player nonetheless. Haywood only averaged 6.8 points and 6.0 rebounds for his NBA career. Haywood was the clear 2nd best NBA talent behind Steve Francis that the '99 Duke team had to face in the entire ACC. Which helps prove my point that the ACC was incredibly weak that season.

 

[simplyluvin]

The '86 team should be up there somewhere. Probably not above '99. But 37-3 and losing in the final is nothing to discount. That one was tough to take. Started out 16-0, lost two in a row (to Carolina and GaTech, both ranked in the top 5), regrouped strong, had to beat GaTech again in the ACCT championship, then buzz-sawed its way through to the FF, pulled out the win there against Kansas... then vs Ville couldn't the team couldn't shoot, except for JD, and then they put a box-and-one on him and shut him down. And there was Never Nervous Pervis...

I know. Too soon...

9F

You're totally right. The '86 team is up there. Top three for sure.

 

[NYBri]

The '86 team should be up there somewhere. Probably not above '99. But 37-3 and losing in the final is nothing to discount. That one was tough to take. Started out 16-0, lost two in a row (to Carolina and GaTech, both ranked in the top 5), regrouped strong, had to beat GaTech again in the ACCT championship, then buzz-sawed its way through to the FF, pulled out the win there against Kansas... then vs Ville couldn't the team couldn't shoot, except for JD, and then they put a box-and-one on him and shut him down. And there was Never Nervous Pervis...

I know. Too soon...

9F

WAY too soon! Half life of the pain is 50 years in scientific terms.

 

[luvdahops]

This team is also WAY deeper than the 1999 team. The '99 team had Corey Maggette as an impact player off the bench, and that was pretty much it. Nate James - who only played about 15 minutes a game and played a scoreless 6 minutes in the title games against UConn - was very inconsistent, and didn't turn into the reliable vet that he was until the following season, when he started 33 games.

I was a freshman at Duke in 1999 and followed that team closely. Even though it was a statistically dominant team, I don't think it was as good as many Duke fans remember it to have been, especially compared to Duke's other title teams (particularly the Hurley/Laettner/Hill back-to-back teams). One of the primary reasons for that was the extremely shallow bench of the '99 team. Another overlooked reason was that ACC was also really weak that season. After the nationally ranked Duke, Maryland, and UNC teams, the rest of the league was below .500 in conference play and devoid of good NBA talent. UNC's best NBA pro that season was Brendan Haywood, who was more of a role player despite starting most of his career, having averaged double digit points only once.

Chris Burgess was a pretty solid backup big on that team. Averaged 5.4 points, 3.9 boards and just under 1 block in 15.6 minutes per game. Also shot 61.4% from the floor though was fairly shaky from the FT line (54.3%). His win shares per 40 or .226 was ahead of Trajan, Will Avery and CC.

 

[MChambers]

Chris Burgess was a pretty solid backup big on that team. Averaged 5.4 points, 3.9 boards and just under 1 block in 15.6 minutes per game. Also shot 61.4% from the floor though was fairly shaky from the FT line (54.3%). His win shares per 40 or .226 was ahead of Trajan, Will Avery and CC.

And 2 fouls per 15 minutes, unfortunately. Not quite in Sean Stewart territory, but close.

 

[Kfanarmy]

'06 broke our collective hearts. JJ had a season for the ages but went 3 for 18 against LSU. That team might be the third best Duke team not to win a title (99, of course, and maybe 2011).

well....JJ was fouled on virtually every shot attempt. Officials should have been arrested after that one....

 

[DU82]

well....JJ was fouled on virtually every shot attempt. Officials should have been arrested after that one....

JJ started the game with a regular sized jersey. After the game, it would have fit Sean May.

 

[luvdahops]

And 2 fouls per 15 minutes, unfortunately. Not quite in Sean Stewart territory, but close.

Also better than Theo John (2.6 per 15 mins), Shavlik Randolph (2.4) and Big Pat (2.2), among others, and roughly in line with Ryan Young. Sean averaged 2.8 at both Duke and tOSU. Kind of goes with the territory for backup bigs.

 

[Ol Guff]

I suspect this is a reference to a game we played against Kentucky in the NCAA tournament... I want to say it was 1998, although I could certainly be wrong, and I don't feel inclined to look it up.

We also lost a heartbreaking ACC championship game to Maryland blowing a fairly large lead, but the I don't remember how many points it was, nor the year.

It was 2004, and had we won it, would have been 8! ACC tournaments champs in a row. And that’s why I remember it.

 

[Matches]

20/21 year olds were not born in 2004. Just can’t be true. Check your math. I was in college then, and it was very recent.

I brought my daughter home from the hospital on the day of the 2nd Duke/ UNC game (in Cameron) that year. She’s now old enough to drink. My back hurts.

 

[MChambers]

Also better than Theo John (2.6 per 15 mins), Shavlik Randolph (2.4) and Big Pat (2.2), among others, and roughly in line with Ryan Young. Sean averaged 2.8 at both Duke and tOSU. Kind of goes with the territory for backup bigs.

Yeah, but my memory is that Burgess couldn't play much defense.

 

[MChambers]

Here's Brian Geisinger's excellent recap, showing how Duke carved up Baylor's defense.

Dealing with the Devils: Examining Duke’s dominant two-way performance against Baylor

Khaman Maluach closes off the rim, Patrick Ngongba steps into an expanded role, Cooper Flagg ignites secondary action, plus how Duke picked at Baylor's switch scheme

briangeisinger.substack.com

He focuses quite a bit on Big Pat:

"When Ngongba has shared the floor with Flagg during non-Maluach, non-Brown stretches, Duke is +128 in 133 minutes, with an offensive rating of 140.7 points per 100 possessions and a defensive rating of 82.3 points per 100 possessions.

Ngongba has tremendous hands and footwork, which he consistently utilizes on offense — isolating in the post, catching passes in traffic on the short roll and mashing on the offensive glass. He also puts those same tools to work on defense. Occasionally, while in drop coverage, he’ll surprise a ball handler by poking the ball loose with his reach and quick hands."

 

[luvdahops]

Yeah, but my memory is that Burgess couldn't play much defense.

He was certainly not on the level of Shane or Elton - both very strong frontcourt defenders - but was plenty serviceable to my memory. Defensive win shares of 2.1 were ahead of Maggette (1.8), James (1.2) and Langdon (1.8) and not far behind Avery (2.3) in far fewer minutes. Also better than Carrawell (2.7 in 28.6 mpg) on a per minute basis.

 

[throatybeard]

1986 also took place in a stronger ACC than 1999

 

[Lurkingdukedog]

1986 also took place in a stronger ACC than 1999

The 1986 ACC was insanely strong. If I recall correctly, we were ranked 5th in the pre-season poll . . . and that was good enough for 3rd place in the ACC (behind GA Tech and the Cheats). Of course, we finished better than either of them.

 

[throatybeard]

The 1986 ACC was insanely strong. If I recall correctly, we were ranked 5th in the pre-season poll . . . and that was good enough for 3rd place in the ACC (behind GA Tech and the Cheats). Of course, we finished better than either of them.

Wake Forest was bad. Everyone else was good, including Virginia and Clemson teams that ended up with middling records.

 

[fidel]

JMann covers Duke-Baylor