MBB: Duke 69 Arizona 55 Postgame Thread

[azzefkram]

It's only been a couple of games, but I can't remember watching a player with so much anticipation about how he was going to poke or deflect the ball or otherwise disrupt a play. As soon as his man gets the ball - especially if he tries to dribble - it almost feels like a coin flip whether Maliq will get a finger on it.

Even if Duke/Maliq doesn't get the steal, the other team is burning clock and starting further and further away from the basket.

 

[cato]

Probably the most impressive thing I saw last night (OK, I didn't see it until this morning) was our defensive cohesion. Players were talking to each other constantly, and the timing on initial switches and switch-backs was the kind of play you don't often see from team that is still very early in its first season together. Every now and then, you'd see one player redirect another, and it was virtually always in plenty of time to meet the challenge. I was just so impressed by how much of a rehearsed, defensive UNIT we were, rather than a bunch of solo players just guarding their own guy. There were precious few one-on-one breakdowns that didn't get swallowed up by a teammate.

Really impressive work on that end of the floor.

There are quite a few of us who, at our core, emotionally identify with Duke as a defensive team. The first wave of K’s success was built on developing a team of stand out individuals who would implement his aggressive M-T-M defense.

Each of his national championship teams found ways to excel on defense, but the recipe changed over the years. By 2015, the team barely founds its defensive identity in time to come together.

Over the decades, at some point, the offense started driving the bus most successfully. There are a ton of things that go into this, including talent bleed to the NBA and G League, change in hand checking rules, increased volume and efficiency from 3, etc. But the bottom line is that Duke’s most successful teams are even more successful on the offensive side of the ball than they are on the defensive side of the ball.

I am happy that Duke has made this choice over the years. UVA went all-in on prioritizing defense, and while that approach delivered a national championship, that result was an outlier driven by both exceptional talent and luck.* It didn’t prove to be repeatable or sustainable.

What’s my point? My favorite type of Duke team is one that dominates on the defensive side first, but can also dominate on the offensive side more often than not. So I agree with you that I am impressed and very excited by this team’s performance on defense. They are doing it with a unit that we know can score, and doesn’t have the obvious weakness of Duke’s offense of the past few years.

All that said, I am worried about Duke’s offense. If a defensive powerhouse can figure out how to contain Cooper and limit Kon with the season on the line, I am not entirely confident that someone else will step up to score with volume and efficiency.

*Obviously. Every NC involves these two things to a differing degree.

 

[trinity79]

The petite or the haute?

Perhaps it was actually the lumpenproletariat.

 

[SkyBrickey]

There are quite a few of us who, at our core, emotionally identify with Duke as a defensive team. The first wave of K’s success was built on developing a team of stand out individuals who would implement his aggressive M-T-M defense.

Each of his national championship teams found ways to excel on defense, but the recipe changed over the years. By 2015, the team barely founds its defensive identity in time to come together.

Over the decades, at some point, the offense started driving the bus most successfully. There are a ton of things that go into this, including talent bleed to the NBA and G League, change in hand checking rules, increased volume and efficiency from 3, etc. But the bottom line is that Duke’s most successful teams are even more successful on the offensive side of the ball than they are on the defensive side of the ball.

I am happy that Duke has made this choice over the years. UVA went all-in on prioritizing defense, and while that approach delivered a national championship, that result was an outlier driven by both exceptional talent and luck.* It didn’t prove to be repeatable or sustainable.

What’s my point? My favorite type of Duke team is one that dominates on the defensive side first, but can also dominate on the offensive side more often than not. So I agree with you that I am impressed and very excited by this team’s performance on defense. They are doing it with a unit that we know can score, and doesn’t have the obvious weakness of Duke’s offense of the past few years.

All that said, I am worried about Duke’s offense. If a defensive powerhouse can figure out how to contain Cooper and limit Kon with the season on the line, I am not entirely confident that someone else will step up to score with volume and efficiency.

*Obviously. Every NC involves these two things to a differing degree.

Good stuff. According to KenPom we've got the #15 offense which is a great place to be for a team this young, this early in the year. For both of Jon's prior teams, our offense got better as he added more sets and movements as the year went on and our execution got sharper.

I'm expecting the same this year. No reason why we shouldn't have a top 10 offense by year end. As for go-to scorers? Proctor, Foster, James are all capable along with Kon and Cooper. We've got the talent to be a powerhouse offense. I think we're still just scratching the surface.

 

[heyman25]

I would like to play Evans minutes in every game now, so that he's a solid contributor by February.

I think that is a good idea unless Mason Gillis can be productive off the bench. He has been underperforming compared to Brown and James. Yes Evans is thin but he has been practicing and training since July. Overdue for an in game appearance.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

What are the lineup

Good stuff. According to KenPom we've got the #15 offense which is a great place to be for a team this young, this early in the year. For both of Jon's prior teams, our offense got better as he added more sets and movements as the year went on and our execution got sharper.

I'm expecting the same this year. No reason why we shouldn't have a top 10 offense by year end. As for go-to scorers? Proctor, Foster, James are all capable along with Kon and Cooper. We've got the talent to be a powerhouse offense. I think we're still just scratching the surface.

Proctor and Foster as go-to scorers? That's probably the most data-defying prediction I've seen you make.

Agree with Cato, it's pretty clear that the way to beat us will be shutting down our offense. Past time for Evans to take his lumps so he's tested when we need him.

 

[rsvman]

What are the lineup

Proctor and Foster as go-to scorers? That's probably the most data-defying prediction I've seen you make.

Agree with Cato, it's pretty clear that the way to beat us will be shutting down our offense. Past time for Evans to take his lumps so he's tested when we need him.

Would you be ok with a loss or two as part of the process of getting Evans some experience?

 

[sagegrouse]

Would you be ok with a loss or two as part of the process of getting Evans some experience?

Not necessarily, but we'd probably never know. I thiught we were worn down against Kentucky -- being behind 8-0 is a problem and can have consequences. So minutes to Evans might have been a good thing.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Evans is behind both Gillis and James off the bench. He will have a chance to change that in practice and in more appearances in non-competitive games throughout the season. But I don't think Jon is willing to risk an early season loss against Kansas or Auburn just to give Evans some minutes.

Losing against either of those teams could very well be the difference between a #1 and #2 tourney seed, which could be the difference maker in getting to the FF.

 

[SkyBrickey]

What are the lineup

Proctor and Foster as go-to scorers? That's probably the most data-defying prediction I've seen you make.

Agree with Cato, it's pretty clear that the way to beat us will be shutting down our offense. Past time for Evans to take his lumps so he's tested when we need him.

We've seen both Proctor and Foster as go-to scorers in past games, so not sure why that's a crazy idea. Jon has them both largely deferring to Cooper and Kon to drive the ball and make plays. That may or may not change.

I'm a fan of Cooper and Kon as options 1 and 2. But if teams key in on this, then Caleb, especially, needs to get into the paint and make plays. I expect we will see more of this - maybe even tomorrow night.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

Would you be ok with a loss or two as part of the process of getting Evans some experience?

I think that's a major exaggeration of the risk of getting the 13th-rated recruit and perhaps our 2nd best shooter some reps. I'd ask if you're ok with us going out in the tourney like we did against NC State, when our guards were lucky to draw iron and we had zero shooting depth. That is the exact kind of game that will knock this team out so I think we need to get our shooters some minutes, the defense is going to be fine.

 

[SkyBrickey]

I think that's a major exaggeration of the risk of getting the 13th-rated recruit and perhaps our 2nd best shooter some reps. I'd ask if you're ok with us going out in the tourney like we did against NC State, when our guards were lucky to draw iron and we had zero shooting depth. That is precisely the kind of game that will knock us out and we're literally trotting out the same two starting guards.

I have an idea. Why don't we trust Jon to decide if and when Isaiah is ready to play in big games since he knows 100x more than any of us about these players.

 

[sagegrouse]

I have an idea. Why don't we trust Jon to decide if and when Isaiah is ready to play in big games since he knows 100x more than any of us about these players.

If we leave it to Coach Jon, what value is DBR -- or the internet?

 

[UrinalCake]

I think that's a major exaggeration of the risk of getting the 13th-rated recruit and perhaps our 2nd best shooter some reps. I'd ask if you're ok with us going out in the tourney like we did against NC State, when our guards were lucky to draw iron and we had zero shooting depth. That is the exact kind of game that will knock this team out so I think we need to get our shooters some minutes, the defense is going to be fine.

Last year a significant portion of the fan base was calling for TJ Power to get some of Mark Mitchell's minutes. Power was shooting over 50% from three through the OOC season while Mitchell was being left alone to double team Flip in the paint. It was a very similar argument to what is being made this season wrt Evans, saying we had to develop Power and Stewart for later in the season even if it meant dropping a game. If we didn't they would transfer and we'd be sorry.

As it turns out, not playing Power and Stewart was exactly the right decision. Jon knew what he was doing.

 

[sagegrouse]

I have hung my coat on the "nine, maybe ten" peg. Logical consistency requires me to call for more court time for Isaiah.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

Last year a significant portion of the fan base was calling for TJ Power to get some of Mark Mitchell's minutes. Power was shooting over 50% from three through the OOC season while Mitchell was being left alone to double team Flip in the paint. It was a very similar argument to what is being made this season wrt Evans, saying we had to develop Power and Stewart for later in the season even if it meant dropping a game. If we didn't they would transfer and we'd be sorry.

As it turns out, not playing Power and Stewart was exactly the right decision. Jon knew what he was doing.

Agree re: last year.

I think it's crazy that the #13 recruit is averaging ~ 6 minutes per game. If he's so bad he can't even sniff the floor against good teams, how was he ranked so high?

I'm not sure...but I think that Jon is like K and plays his top 7.5 guys. If you're outside that, you're not getting many minutes. I also think that's crazy. With 3 high-quality transfers, I think we have a ton of depth and need to be willing to play guys 8 and 9 (and maybe even 10!)

 

[gep]

Agree re: last year.

I think it's crazy that the #13 recruit is averaging ~ 6 minutes per game. If he's so bad he can't even sniff the floor against good teams, how was he ranked so high?

I'm not sure...but I think that Jon is like K and plays his top 7.5 guys. If you're outside that, you're not getting many minutes. I also think that's crazy. With 3 high-quality transfers, I think we have a ton of depth and need to be willing to play guys 8 and 9 (and maybe even 10!)

I don't think "he's so bad". Problem is that he is "behind" so many other players that will contribute more to the team/game... based on Scheyer and the staff's evaluation based on practice and other games.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

I don't think "he's so bad". Problem is that he is "behind" so many other players that will contribute more to the team/game... based on Scheyer and the staff's evaluation based on practice and other games.

I hear you. But I look at Dan Hurley - hands down best coach in the game - and see he's playing at least 9 guys 10+ minutes. A few of those guys aren't ranked close to Evans. But he's building depth and getting them experience. One thing I'm pretty sure of - they won't transfer at the end of the year because of lack of playing time, and that will pay off when we're all wondering how UConn has these no-name low-ranked recruits who lead the team as juniors and seniors.

Ok, last post on this from me.

 

[dlmzzz]

I hear you. But I look at Dan Hurley - hands down best coach in the game - and see he's playing at least 9 guys 10+ minutes. A few of those guys aren't ranked close to Evans. But he's building depth and getting them experience. One thing I'm pretty sure of - they won't transfer at the end of the year because of lack of playing time, and that will pay off when we're all wondering how UConn has these no-name low-ranked recruits who lead the team as juniors and seniors.

Ok, last post on this from me.

Hurley played 9 players tonight, in a game where he had one guy foul out after 15 minutes of play, another after 23 minutes, and a third after 28 minutes. The ninth player had almost no contribution in 15 minutes of play. Stats like he posted are why people ask if we’re willing to lose a game or two to get people playing time.

I do think Evans is better than that. But there’s a reason why everyone on the boards knows the phrase “knocked back” related to freshman players.

 

[SkyBrickey]

I hear you. But I look at Dan Hurley - hands down best coach in the game - and see he's playing at least 9 guys 10+ minutes. A few of those guys aren't ranked close to Evans. But he's building depth and getting them experience. One thing I'm pretty sure of - they won't transfer at the end of the year because of lack of playing time, and that will pay off when we're all wondering how UConn has these no-name low-ranked recruits who lead the team as juniors and seniors.

Ok, last post on this from me.

In the national championship game last year, Hurley went 8 deep. His 8th man played 12 minutes. In his closest late season win, 95-90 over St John's, his 8th man played 11 minutes. He went deeper in the OT win tonight, because Hurley had 3 guys foul out.

The facts don't match your narrative.