Conference Realignment

ChillinDuke can explain for themselves precisely what they meant, but I seriously doubt they had that list of schools in mind. If the ACC could add Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, and Utah, on the other hand? In my opinion, the ACC should do it. The very notion of "Atlantic" is gone (and was gone when Luhvul and the Domers arrived, really), and pretty much every matchup involving a school not in the Atlanta-DC axis is already a plane flight anyway. Those are the four most valuable schools in the "Big" "12".
Well, there were a couple of layers of irony in my post. I wasn't serious and don't at all believe my proposed scenario to be realistic, desirable, or sensible.
 
The argument to chase football money to pay for non revenue sports is becoming or has become nonsensical. You’re now cutting non revenue sports to accommodate football. So maybe a better solution is to join the Big East and cut football altogether. You might then want to cut 2-3 women’s sports since. a whole bunch of men’s scholarships are going away. Then maybe the Big East could commit to spending $7 million instead of $21.5 Million. Also Duke might negotiate a higher pay me for basketball.

But Duke, like everyone, else will probably just keep chasing football money while making up new reasons to justify why it’s absolutely necessary to do so while creating unreasonable travel demands for those non revenue sports that you care about so deeply. Does Coach K count as someone in the athletic department?
what non revenue sports is Duke cutting to accommodate football? Without the football money they'll have to cut a LOT of non revenue sports.
 
Well, there were a couple of layers of irony in my post. I wasn't serious and don't at all believe my proposed scenario to be realistic, desirable, or sensible.
OK, well you listed some less-desirable Big 12 schools and then rolled your eyes. So I apologize that I clearly missed some five-level ironic chess, as you seemed to be using bad examples just to make fun of an idea that, more broadly, is not at all a bad suggestion.
 
OK, well you listed some less-desirable Big 12 schools and then rolled your eyes. So I apologize that I clearly missed some five-level ironic chess, as you seemed to be using bad examples just to make fun of an idea that, more broadly, is not at all a bad suggestion.
I mean yeah, I'm making fun of the entire situation wherein the "Atlantic Coast" portion of the conference's name has long since been consigned to the dustbin of sensibility, and where the Big 12, itself a pretty recent exercise in artificiality, is in danger of being poached for its 3rd-generation members who bear no significant geographic or institutional connection to one another.

No offense or contempt is meant toward you or any poster here; I just generally hate this entire exercise in continually roiling stupidity.
 
I mean yeah, I'm making fun of the entire situation wherein the "Atlantic Coast" portion of the conference's name has long since been consigned to the dustbin of sensibility, and where the Big 12, itself a pretty recent exercise in artificiality, is in danger of being poached for its 3rd-generation members who bear no significant geographic or institutional connection to one another.

No offense or contempt is meant toward you or any poster here; I just generally hate this entire exercise in continually roiling stupidity.
Hating the rolling disaster of conference membership "logic" is entirely fair, yes.
 
ChillinDuke can explain for themselves precisely what they meant, but I seriously doubt they had that list of schools in mind. If the ACC could add Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, and Utah, on the other hand? In my opinion, the ACC should do it. The very notion of "Atlantic" is gone (and was gone when Luhvul and the Domers arrived, really), and pretty much every matchup involving a school not in the Atlanta-DC axis is already a plane flight anyway. Those are the four most valuable schools in the "Big" "12".
Fair point on geographic logic going out the door. But I think there is a general sense that 16-18 team conferences are already very full, with a lot of rivalry dilution and other scheduling issues. So I would expect we are likely at something of an equilibrium, at least among the Top 4 conferences, for the foreseeable future (next 5 years or so, possibly longer).
 
Fair point on geographic logic going out the door. But I think there is a general sense that 16-18 team conferences are already very full, with a lot of rivalry dilution and other scheduling issues. So I would expect we are likely at something of an equilibrium, at least among the Top 4 conferences, for the foreseeable future (next 5 years or so, possibly longer).
Probably right. And it really isn't Top 4 (aka Power 4); it's Top 2, and then Next 2.
 
Fair point on geographic logic going out the door. But I think there is a general sense that 16-18 team conferences are already very full, with a lot of rivalry dilution and other scheduling issues. So I would expect we are likely at something of an equilibrium, at least among the Top 4 conferences, for the foreseeable future (next 5 years or so, possibly longer).

Probably right. And it really isn't Top 4 (aka Power 4); it's Top 2, and then Next 2.

While I wish the ACC could ascend on its own to become the clear third conference to Austin Devil's Top 2, we are clearly failing at that in basketball at the moment. In football, it's a bit murkier.

We have 17 schools in football and 18 in basketball. I was actually thinking we take 7 schools to become a 24-school football league with either four 6-team divisions or three 8-team divisions. Taking 7 schools, presumably all from the B12, would effectively kill that conference at least from the perspective of eliminating them becoming a clear third conference to the Top 2. We could reorganize our membership such that Stanford and Cal primarily remain out west in a division of westerners (Zona, BYU, Utah, Colorado, amongst potentially others). We could also then survive another round of poaching as the clear #3 conference and just go back to the trough to "promote" someone else. We would basically elbow out space such that we can't easily be dethroned - and our footprint would be large enough to presumably cover parts of the country that simply aren't ACC-interested today - and the B12's next contract would, theoretically at least, be chopped up to allocate somewhat significant value to the ACC with the remainder to a watered down B12.

Is it pretty? No. Do I want it? Not really. Do others want it? Not really. Is it logical? Only insofar as money and self preservation matters. And none of those items have prevented the near-constant realignment of the past 15 years. So why stop now?

It's my, perhaps stupid, attempt at predicting the future. Probably no better than anyone else's.

- Chillin
 
Not sure I see any benefit to going to 24 teams. The league only benefits if per team payouts increase, as they did by adding SMU (who takes no money for many years) and Cal and Stanford who take greatly reduced payouts for many years. And even then, we'd have to count on ESPN throwing in extra money so the per team payout stays static, and that's hardly a given.
 
Not sure I see any benefit to going to 24 teams. The league only benefits if per team payouts increase, as they did by adding SMU (who takes no money for many years) and Cal and Stanford who take greatly reduced payouts for many years. And even then, we'd have to count on ESPN throwing in extra money so the per team payout stays static, and that's hardly a given.

True. I just think it's exceedingly likely that ESPN would pay more to the ACC if we've saved them that same money on the B12 contract (which they have part of). Even if the league stays flat monetarily, we would benefit qualitatively from having a stronger seat at the table in CFP (and other nationwide) negotiations, being more stable if poached, and having more strong brands on which to market marquee matchups in all sports.

Anyway, it's unlikely, but directionally more likely now that ESPN has extended our contract.

- Chillin
 
The argument to chase football money to pay for non revenue sports is becoming or has become nonsensical. You’re now cutting non revenue sports to accommodate football. So maybe a better solution is to join the Big East and cut football altogether. You might then want to cut 2-3 women’s sports since. a whole bunch of men’s scholarships are going away. Then maybe the Big East could commit to spending $7 million instead of $21.5 Million. Also Duke might negotiate a higher pay me for basketball.

But Duke, like everyone, else will probably just keep chasing football money while making up new reasons to justify why it’s absolutely necessary to do so while creating unreasonable travel demands for those non revenue sports that you care about so deeply. Does Coach K count as someone in the athletic department?
Are you aware of the annual payout differences in the ACC and Big East?

The ACC paid its schools $44.8 million in 2023. The Big East was just $6.3 mil in 2023.

Now, what do you think is the biggest difference between the ACC and the Big East? It starts with foot and ends with ball.

So, while you decry the quest for football dollars and the $20.5 mil each ACC team will spend on player salaries (my bet is that a bit less than $15 mil of that goes to the football team), I would love to know how you plan to make up the almost $40 million difference in payout when we leave a football playing power conference for one that focuses on basketball.

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Are you aware of the annual payout differences in the ACC and Big East?

The ACC paid its schools $44.8 million in 2023. The Big East was just $6.3 mil in 2023.

Now, what do you think is the biggest difference between the ACC and the Big East? It starts with foot and ends with ball.

So, while you decry the quest for football dollars and the $20.5 mil each ACC team will spend on player salaries (my bet is that a bit less than $15 mil of that goes to the football team), I would love to know how you plan to make up the almost $40 million difference in payout when we leave a football playing power conference for one that focuses on basketball.

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$21.5 M is just for the players. The cost of football considerably more. I won’t go in to all of it because I don’t think there is any chance at all that it happens. But most DBR posters are perpetually worried that the music is going to stop and Duke won’t have a seat. I’m not worried about anything related to college sports.
 
$21.5 M is just for the players. The cost of football considerably more. I won’t go in to all of it because I don’t think there is any chance at all that it happens. But most DBR posters are perpetually worried that the music is going to stop and Duke won’t have a seat. I’m not worried about anything related to college sports.
Kewl. I getcha. But as someone who literally earns hundreds of dollars a year from talking about Duke sports, I'd like us to remain relevant as a power conference program ;)
 
The thing that’s going to be absolutely nuts with the $20mm is what it does to locker rooms. NIL is already kinda crazy. We’re juicing that by a factor of what, 3-4x? You’re going to have one or two massive stars at each of these schools making millions of dollars. There will be a Mensah-level paid player at every school in the conference from Wake and BC to FSU and Clemson. And they’re going to be making more than most coaches. And then you’ll have others making peanuts. It’s going to be absolutely insane.

That said, it probably will help distribute talent more than anything else though. If today Wake’s collective has, say, $3mm per year and UGA has $15mm, that’s a massive gap. If both schools have to also pay out $20mm each though (and are capped at that figure), you’re now playing with $23mm for Wake vs $35mm for UGA. While certainly a gap, is a lot closer on a percentage basis, and may lead to better distribution of players
 
The thing that’s going to be absolutely nuts with the $20mm is what it does to locker rooms. NIL is already kinda crazy. We’re juicing that by a factor of what, 3-4x? You’re going to have one or two massive stars at each of these schools making millions of dollars. There will be a Mensah-level paid player at every school in the conference from Wake and BC to FSU and Clemson. And they’re going to be making more than most coaches. And then you’ll have others making peanuts. It’s going to be absolutely insane.
How is this different from NBA or NFL locker rooms? Lebron James is making like $50 mil per season. Jaxon Hayes, the Lakers newly anointed starting center, is making $2.4 mil. Are they getting into fights in the locker room or something?

Dak Prescott's cap number this year is almost $90 million... the Cowboys have more than 40 guys earning between $700k and $1.2 mil. Seems like Darien Mensah making $4 mil ain't that big a deal.
 
How is this different from NBA or NFL locker rooms? Lebron James is making like $50 mil per season. Jaxon Hayes, the Lakers newly anointed starting center, is making $2.4 mil. Are they getting into fights in the locker room or something?

Dak Prescott's cap number this year is almost $90 million... the Cowboys have more than 40 guys earning between $700k and $1.2 mil. Seems like Darien Mensah making $4 mil ain't that big a deal.
I guess the old adage is true... "money talks". To me... sad. How can a team function when 1 player gets $90 million, and the guys that make the "team" work get $1 million... I do value the importance of the position and the difference in quality/skill, but to me, this is over-the-top.
 
I guess the old adage is true... "money talks". To me... sad. How can a team function when 1 player gets $90 million, and the guys that make the "team" work get $1 million... I do value the importance of the position and the difference in quality/skill, but to me, this is over-the-top.
I’m guessing that some people walk away from these types of scenarios. But the proof is in the pudding — there are always hungry folks lining up for the opportunity to be the last person to make the team.

Think of all the time that someone like Quinn Cook spent toiling away in order to get his shot(s). He found a way to be a great teammate with players like LeBron, Steph, etc
 
How is this different from NBA or NFL locker rooms? Lebron James is making like $50 mil per season. Jaxon Hayes, the Lakers newly anointed starting center, is making $2.4 mil. Are they getting into fights in the locker room or something?

Dak Prescott's cap number this year is almost $90 million... the Cowboys have more than 40 guys earning between $700k and $1.2 mil. Seems like Darien Mensah making $4 mil ain't that big a deal.
Yes but these are 18-22 year old kids we’re talking about, not hardened professionals. Heck, some just went to prom last year! There isn’t a culture in these locker rooms that is used to this level of money. Which is why places like UGA are arguably in crisis and wreaking havoc on Athens with drag racing. This isn’t Crash Davis and a bunch of veterans. These are straight up children!
 
Bask
Yes but these are 18-22 year old kids we’re talking about, not hardened professionals. Heck, some just went to prom last year! There isn’t a culture in these locker rooms that is used to this level of money. Which is why places like UGA are arguably in crisis and wreaking havoc on Athens with drag racing. This isn’t Crash Davis and a bunch of veterans. These are straight up children!
Young adults. We as fans create this environment. If we weren't tuning in to watch them play, then they wouldn't be getting paid so well. You can't blame them!
 
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