2024 U.S. Presidential election

[ryetales]

Where the conversation never gets to is exactly what forms of ID are going to be acceptable and are these IDs available to everyone.

Driver's license...what if you don't drive
Passport...what if you don't travel out of the country
Birth certificate...what if you are naturalized citizen (Does Melania get to vote?)

The only way this works is if it is a National voting card or citizenship card, but that then violates the constitution that leaves the process up to each state.

Even that does not insure that folks don't influence a few 1000s or 10000's votes in critical swing states.

So to protect against election fraud (which is not that extensive) is a matter of statistics. Don't let 10000s or so votes in a few states have that much influence on the election.

That means make the Presidential election a popular vote election.

List of United States presidential elections by popular vote margin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In 1960 the difference in popular vote was ~100,000. In 1968 and 2000 the difference was 500,000. Other than that the differences were well over a million. It is very difficult to commit "fraud that influences the election" if the difference in the vote is well over a million votes.

Mark,
I like the way you think and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[MarkD83]

Mark,
I like the way you think and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

The newsletter is free and right here on DBR. However, I am only slightly brilliant about 2% of the time.

 

[SkyBrickey]

Sometimes Democrats are too diplomatic. Anyone who says there was any meaningful voter fraud in 2020, or in any election, is either ignorant or a liar. There were over 60 lawsuits filed in 2020, many before Trump judges, and there was ZERO evidence of fraud.

Yet good luck finding any elected Republicans who will say publicly that Biden won the 2020 election. Telling the truth gets you kicked out of the cult. That's evidence it's a cult. You have to repeat the Leader's lies.

Results of Lawsuits Regarding the 2020 Elections

The various claims of evidence alleging a stolen 2020 election have been exhaustively investigated and litigated. Judges heard claims of illegal voting and found they were without merit. (Learn more about how the changes that have happened since 2020 will affect the 2024 election and...

campaignlegal.org

 

[MarkD83]

I am not sure Trump really wants this. He will lose "Bigly".

Trump Suggests Mandatory Voting in Rambling Wisconsin Rally Speech

During the middle of yet another rambling rant about how the 2020 election had been stolen from him, Donald Trump claimed on Sunday that one path to a victory over Kamala Harris is to make voting mandatory in battleground states.“The only way to avoid this miserable thing for America is if...

www.yahoo.com

 

[MarkD83]

Sometimes Democrats are too diplomatic. Anyone who says there was any meaningful voter fraud in 2020, or in any election, is either ignorant or a liar. There were over 60 lawsuits filed in 2020, many before Trump judges, and there was ZERO evidence of fraud.

Yet good luck finding any elected Republicans who will say publicly that Biden won the 2020 election. Telling the truth gets you kicked out of the cult. That's evidence it's a cult. You have to repeat the Leader's lies.

Results of Lawsuits Regarding the 2020 Elections

The various claims of evidence alleging a stolen 2020 election have been exhaustively investigated and litigated. Judges heard claims of illegal voting and found they were without merit. (Learn more about how the changes that have happened since 2020 will affect the 2024 election and...

campaignlegal.org

It is interesting that republican's (and democrats) have not thought this through.

If one "believes" that Trump won the 2020 election than the 22 amendment prevents him from running now.

The amendment does not say "serve out 2 terms" but be "elected to the office of the President more than twice."

Now he can sue to say he never got to "serve his term" and one would hope the "traditionalist/literalists" in the SCOTUS would say "tough nuggies"

22nd Amendment

Section 1​

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

 

[dudog84]

Vance shouting yesterday at the Butler rally to Kamala Harris:

"Donald Trump took a bullet for democracy, what the hell have you done?"

Yeah, let's tone down the rhetoric.

Re Elon (and Rupert), we require the President to be a natural born citizen in the hopes that their 1st allegiance is to the USA. So why don't we require it of media moguls who have so much influence in today's day and age? Doesn't need to be in the Constitution, it would be a simple law.

 

[MarkD83]

I have held back on this post for a while....but as we are within 30 days of the election and I reflect back on this thread here are some "philosophical" quotes that I feel are appropriate to politics and especially the political climate today.

You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. -Nietzsche

There are no facts, only interpretations. -Nietzsche

We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. - Elie Wiesel

When Americans lend a hand to one another, nothing is impossible. We’re not about what happened on 9/11. We’re about what happened on 9/12. -Jeff Parness

Forgiveness has to be complete. If you hate somebody, it’s like a boomerang that misses its target and comes back and hits you in the head. The one who hates is the one who hurts. -Louis Zamperini

When we resist change, it’s called suffering. But when we can completely let go and not struggle against it, when we can embrace the groundlessness of our situation and relax into its dynamic quality, that’s called enlightenment. -Buddhist Wisdom From Pema Chödrön

I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. -Charles Swindoll

 

[AGDukesky]

Sorry this is a bit random, but it finally hit me who Trump reminds me of when he answers a policy question. He’s Paul Dooley (had to look up that name) in “Strange Brew” during the scene talking about how hard it is to fake a timestamp on a video. Hopefully someone understands what I’m trying to say.

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion…

 

[jipops]

Internet stuff…

 

[BandAlum83]

Yes, in Georgia we've historically had very long lines to vote in precincts with lots of minority voters.

The Republicans here passed a law making it illegal for anyone to hand out waters to these people as they sometimes wait 1-2 hours to vote...

In highly Republican east cobb Georgia) where I am, there is seldom a line for me on Election Day. In primarily minority districts, they have appreciably fewer working voting machines per 1,000 registered voters and thus hours long lines.

Voter suppression, much?

 

[BandAlum83]

Can't write out a long, well-thought out post with a hurricane potentially landing on my doorstep in about 48-72 hours. So this will be intentionally brief (shoot me if you want).

What I'm about to share is all anecdotal, but I don't think that lessens the reality behind it. What PackMan stated above has been my experience with countless people (mostly, but not exclusively, here in the South) for well over 40 years now! The phenomenon of Republicans/Conservatives thinking Dems cheat in elections has been around a long, long time. It did not just suddenly appear on the scene in 2020, or 2016. It goes back to talk radio in the 80's/90's (think Rush in the early days) and even back to the 70's in Evangelical circles (not sure if Falwell ever dipped his toes in the water, but maybe...). I know a guy in Illinois who over 25 years ago (and he was in his 60's then) would tell me the big joke in Chicago among Dems was, "Vote early. Vote often."

The idea that "dead people" have been voting for Dems is a long-time belief among an absolutely astounding number of conservatives. While I too think it's got no legitimate merit, I'm just informing everyone it's out there and it's engrained in people's minds and belief systems. I've talked with many a college educated conservative who believes places like Philly and Chicago are rife with election fraud. No facts cited will convince them otherwise. Confirmation bias rules the day if just one meme takes hold on social media - or Trump amplifies the falsehood.

The supposed reasoning among conservatives as to why Dems want open borders has to do with diluting the voting pool and bringing in more folk whom the Dems can count on for votes. That's it in a nutshell. Let more folk in, including illegals, and they believe it will only benefit the Democrats. It's not a complicated belief system, even if some of us find it unreasonable thinking.

To be honest, I see no way out. I'm as down on the American population as a whole as I've ever been in my life. Nothing fixes the bigger issue in the short term because this "Dems/Election fraud" stuff has been circulating and gaining traction for at least the last 40-50 years (possibly much longer). Truly a sad situation.

As a result of what I've seen, I'm praying for a major blowout in the upcoming election. Nothing short of a landslide will prevent some manner of civil unrest among a large group of people (think tens of thousands, not hundreds). Sigh...

I pretty sure the claims go way back to the fraud in Chicago including dead people voting is how Kennedy won Illinois and the electoral college in 1960.

I bet FDR won one of his elections by supposed fraud also.

 

[AtlBluRew]

Adding this because it’s tangential to earlier yard sign discussions. This group (or similarly attired people) gather like this every Saturday and Sunday at the entrance to the Huntington Beach Pier, and have been doing that for many months. They apparently park somewhere up Main Street and march to the pier. I was once first at the stop light as they crossed the Pacific Coast Highway, and can attest that they were chanting, “Trump, Trump, Trump.” The chant was actually rather quiet, but I don’t know if that was reverence or they were out of breath from having walked a few blocks carrying all these flags.

Meanwhile, Harris supporters like me freely admit that we don’t put up yard signs or have bumper stickers because we don’t want people like those pictured to damage our property.

P.S., it’s totally not a cult.

 

[CameronBlue]

I pretty sure the claims go way back to the fraud in Chicago including dead people voting is how Kennedy won Illinois and the electoral college in 1960.

I bet FDR won one of his elections by supposed fraud also.

On the one hand, we have unproven rumors of voter Fraud that when investigated in almost every instance have been proven groundless. On the other hand, we have a move to end birthright citizenship, demonstrative purges of voter rolls, lawsuits intended to limit voter registration etc. Marry an American citizen used to confer citizenship —no longer (though admittedly, I do not know the political circumstances of that change.). I don’t understand how you can dance with that devil and call yourself a patriotic American citizen or a believer in democracy.

 

[Furniture]

As ‘badly’ as Walz did in the debate he did get some zingers in that are very meaningful. The geography one on abortion was brilliant.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842992180736209135

 

[Kdogg]

Re Elon (and Rupert), we require the President to be a natural born citizen in the hopes that their 1st allegiance is to the USA. So why don't we require it of media moguls who have so much influence in today's day and age? Doesn't need to be in the Constitution, it would be a simple law.

Maybe Trump is right. Throw in Theil and it can be argued that we have some immigrants ruining the country.

 

[Skydog]

Can't write out a long, well-thought out post with a hurricane potentially landing on my doorstep in about 48-72 hours. So this will be intentionally brief (shoot me if you want).

What I'm about to share is all anecdotal, but I don't think that lessens the reality behind it. What PackMan stated above has been my experience with countless people (mostly, but not exclusively, here in the South) for well over 40 years now! The phenomenon of Republicans/Conservatives thinking Dems cheat in elections has been around a long, long time. It did not just suddenly appear on the scene in 2020, or 2016. It goes back to talk radio in the 80's/90's (think Rush in the early days) and even back to the 70's in Evangelical circles (not sure if Falwell ever dipped his toes in the water, but maybe...). I know a guy in Illinois who over 25 years ago (and he was in his 60's then) would tell me the big joke in Chicago among Dems was, "Vote early. Vote often."

The idea that "dead people" have been voting for Dems is a long-time belief among an absolutely astounding number of conservatives. While I too think it's got no legitimate merit, I'm just informing everyone it's out there and it's engrained in people's minds and belief systems. I've talked with many a college educated conservative who believes places like Philly and Chicago are rife with election fraud. No facts cited will convince them otherwise. Confirmation bias rules the day if just one meme takes hold on social media - or Trump amplifies the falsehood.

The supposed reasoning among conservatives as to why Dems want open borders has to do with diluting the voting pool and bringing in more folk whom the Dems can count on for votes. That's it in a nutshell. Let more folk in, including illegals, and they believe it will only benefit the Democrats. It's not a complicated belief system, even if some of us find it unreasonable thinking.

To be honest, I see no way out. I'm as down on the American population as a whole as I've ever been in my life. Nothing fixes the bigger issue in the short term because this "Dems/Election fraud" stuff has been circulating and gaining traction for at least the last 40-50 years (possibly much longer). Truly a sad situation.

As a result of what I've seen, I'm praying for a major blowout in the upcoming election. Nothing short of a landslide will prevent some manner of civil unrest among a large group of people (think tens of thousands, not hundreds). Sigh...

It is well known that many decades ago the DEMs (the blue collar workers party back then) had entrenched and powerful political machines in big cities like NY, Chicago, New Orleans, etc. Those political cabals bought votes, had dead people voting, etc. Truly corrupt.

How do we know this? Because it was impossible to hide such massive conspiracies and the crimes and trials were widely reported by the mainstream media and are chronicled now in our history books.

But that was in the early to mid twentieth century. At the national level the last such major voting scandal was in 1960, 65 years ago. Tammany Hall and the Chicago DEM machine are ancient history (although local politics in CHI is still sketchy).

Again, how do we know? Because, contrary to conspiracy theory thinking, it is virtually impossible to hide shenanigans that require the cooperation of more than one or two people. Someone always talks, someone always gets caught, sooner or later. But somehow over the past half-century there are close to zero reports of DEMs rigging elections in any meaningful way. That should tell you all you need to know about narratives that try to create something out of nothing.

This is a long-winded way of saying that any thinking person who uses ancient stories of the DEM political machines of the early 1900’s while ignoring the decades of nothing-burgers since - well they are not interesting because they have no interest in truth. They are brainwashed MAGA fans, not US patriots. Screw them.

(Obviously the above isn’t about you Southern - it is about those who are just looking for excuses to hate on DEMs.)

 

[sagegrouse]

So free education through post doc? Ah the benefits of socialism.....

I dunno, KDogg, I was funded for 4+ years in my PhD program. Post-doc would have paid even better.

 

[Kdogg]

I dunno, KDogg, I was funded for 4+ years in my PhD program. Post-doc would have paid even better.

Ah but those grant requests...

 

[Skydog]

I dunno, KDogg, I was funded for 4+ years in my PhD program. Post-doc would have paid even better.

I was funded for the first two years of my PhD program. Then the Reagan administration put an end to that.

 

[Duke79UNLV77]

I pretty sure the claims go way back to the fraud in Chicago including dead people voting is how Kennedy won Illinois and the electoral college in 1960.

I bet FDR won one of his elections by supposed fraud also.

Or, so the urban legend goes ...

Not only have reviews not found evidence of enough issues to have flipped Illinois, but Kennedy would have won even without Illinois.

1960 United States presidential election in Illinois - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/08/heres-a-voter-fraud-myth-richard-daley-stole-illinois-for-john-kennedy-in-the-1960-election/