Thank you for the clarification.
2024 Men's Basketball Recruiting
- Thread starter JasonEvans
- Start date
Thank you for the clarification.
brevity
Member
I don't know how you can draw that conclusion. A conference breakdown of the RSCI top 100:
24 SEC (Ala 4, Mizz 4, Ark 3, LSU 3, Aub 2, Tex 2, UGA 2, KY, Ole Miss, TN, S Car)
22 ACC (Duke 6, UNC 3, GT 2, Mia 2, Syr 2, Clem, Lou, NCSU, ND, UVA, VT, Wake)
19 Big 12 (Ariz 3, Bay 3, Ariz St 2, Cin 2, Col 2, Hou 2, Kan 2, Kan St, Iowa St, TCU)
19 Big Ten (Iowa 2, Mich St 2, Pur 2, Rut 2, UCLA 2, USC 2, Ill, Ind, MD, Mich, Ohio St, Penn St, Wash)
13 Big East (Crei 3, UConn 3, Gtown 2, Marq 2, Nova 2, SJU)
Other: 1 (Memphis)
Undecided: 2
All three are non-OAD elite prospects. I would argue that Pat is the less warty of the 3 (mostly due to lower expectations for a back-up 5). Pat is looking at max 10-15 mpg even if everything goes great since Khaman will get as many minutes at the 5 as he can handle.
Phredd3
Member
And then you looked at the SEC and thought to yourself, "Hey, if you take away their top two, that also makes them fourth! Maybe that's not a great argument, after all." Right?
sagegrouse
Member
That's really bad form in statistics, to take out the extreme results, unless they can be argued away a priori -- which they can't be in the case of Duke and UNC.
MChambers
Member
camion
Member
Well they're definitely outliars.*
Autocorrect thinks that's spelled wrong. I think it's correct.
Looks like Cameron Sheffield next to Maluach.
CrazyNotCrazie
Member
Robinson, Sion James, Sheffield, Maluach (saw it on IG where they were all tagged - had to have my teenager help me figure all of that out). Cooper Flagg is there, Banchero, Mark Williams, Theo John, Grayson, Marshall Plumlee.
SkyBrickey
Member
I don't know why you're so sold on Cooper starting and playing big minutes at the 3. Forgetting about the freshmen, Cooper is a prototypical Duke 4. Could he play the 3? Yes, for sure. He could also play the 5.
Back to the freshmen. Ngongba is ranked about 10 spots lower than K2/Evans. He missed his entire senior year of HS. And freshmen big men are almost always slower to develop than freshmen perimeter players. K2 and Evans are both ranked similarly to McCain coming in - based on Duke recruiting history they should get rotation minutes as freshmen.
The two of them plus Gillis plus James, not to mention Harris, have us loaded at the wing...
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I noticed Evans was ranked #25 by On3. In the other rankings he was #13 and #14. I think that I read somewhere on DBR that On3 wasn't very accurate on high school rankings. If their ranking had been closer to the other 3 sources, K2 and Evans would be rated almost identical. Of course, ESPN ranked K2 as #18, so there's that. Anyhow, with those rankings in mind, I see how competition for minutes between K2 and Evans could play out.
GoDuke!
scottdude8
Moderator, front page and podcast contributor
I mentioned this on the pod recently: when projecting where Cooper will be playing most of his minutes, I think the tea leaves we have to read are less about his skillset and more about the moves around him. Yes, Duke loaded up on wings, although James can play 1-3 and Gillis can play 3-4. But the most important data point to me is Brown and the moves around him. Consider:
1) Arguably of all our transfers, including Gillis, Brown is the most proven at the level Duke wants to play at... because he played in the ACC last year. In fact, he started the entire second half of the season and was on the ACC All Defensive team. That profiles as a guy who will either start or play starters minutes.
2) If Cooper is going to play a majority of his minutes at the 4, that limits Brown's minutes there, and puts his role more as a platoon guy with Khaman. Not only do I notthink that'll happen for the reasons above, but if Brown was coming into primarily play the 5, that would mean there'd be minutes to fight for at the 4 backing up Cooper and playing there when Cooper plays the 3. If that was the plan, I imagine (without any inside knowledge) that the offseason conversations with TJ and/or Sean may have gone differently since there would've been a much clearer path to significant minutes at the 4 for one of them.
My guess, on May 29, is still that the starting lineup once the season gets going in earnest (allowing for some wiggle room at the beginning of the season if, for instance, Khaman needs to get up and running) is Proctor, Foster, Flagg, Brown, and Maluach. But I think that Brown will still serve as Maluach's primary backup: I suspect we'll see something where we will see James, Gillis, K2, or Evans come in for Maluach, and while he's on the bench Flagg will shift down to the 4 and Brown to the 5. The "backup 5" doesn't necessarily have to come off the bench for us to still have serviceable depth at that position, especially in the era of positionless basketball where the 2 through 4 are very often interchangeable, especially with our depth and talent at those positions.
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What Scott said plus Cooper is a three. His mom said it, Jordan Mann said it, the guys on the 5 point play podcast said it, and I think Connor O'Neill said it as well. Cooper is tall enough to play the 4 but he is not big enough. He will be giving up 15-20 lbs and possibly 5 years of physical maturity playing the 4. SkyB you are worried about him chasing around 3s. Why? It's what he does. I am terrified of Cooper banging in the post. Do you remember how wiped Flip looked at the end of games? Flip is bigger and older than Cooper.
That's not to mention that Cooper at the 4 puts one of Duke's 5 best players on the bench (Maliq). An All ACC defender did not come to Duke to be a bench guy. Cooper is going to play 30-35 minutes a night. Maluach is going to play 25-30. Maliq did not come to Duke to play 15-25 minutes a night. If the plan was for Cooper to play the 4, there was no need to get Maliq because Sean could have backed up Cooper. Also, Mark's preferred position is the 3. Why would a 2-year starter leave if his preferred position is wide open? I also don't think Pat is coming to Duke to ride the pine. Yes, he missed his senior year, but he was still a top 25 recruit even after missing his senior year. Those guys don't profile as starters but they do as back-ups.
You keep bringing up K2 and Evans' ranking with respect to Jared, but it means nothing. Classes can be strong or weak. Comparing between years is folly. Heck, saying that a player is 10 spots higher within a class means very little, given how inexact ranking recruits are.
And finally, cheesy pete people. I've had to read 2 solid years of WBM about how young and inexperienced Duke is and how many games it has cost Duke, and Scheyer goes out and grabs 3 mature, physical, gritty, and acclaimed players, and everyone wants to play the new shiny flawed toys.
Of all the Duke players that are going to get plenty of playing time, I think starting means more to Foster than any other player. I may be wrong about that, but that's the way I see it. I know in another thread, a prediction was made that he would come off the bench. By ACC play I guess it's possible James may move into the 2G position, but to begin the year I think it's Foster's job to lose. As for who plays the 3 and 4, the candidates are; Flagg, James, Brown, Gillis, Evans and K2. Harris is probably the odd man out. That's 6 players for 3 positions and makes for some interesting competition. Flagg, Brown and Gillis seen sure fire bets. James will probably see time at the two guard positions and some time at the 3. Gillis can play the 3 and 4 and will get minutes there. Maluach and Brown will get the majority of minutes at the 5 unless Ngongba surprises everyone and is the backup 5. If that happens, Brown will surely be the 4 and Flagg will be the 3. This leaves K2 and Evans on the outside looking in unless Jon goes 9 deep. If that happens, it will be a huge competition between K2 and Evans for that 9th spot. The number 10 player would be in the starting lineup for many ACC teams.
GoDuke!
cato
Member
This is very unlikely to happen. It is rare for a freshman big to get much over 20 min a game.
Dereck averaged 22.5 from January on (22 games) and 26.4 from February on (14 games). Freshman bigs start slowly but by season end are playing in the 25-30 minute range. The point being playing Cooper out of position at the 4 would squeeze Maliq's minutes as the season goes on. Duke would be marginalizing one of its top 5 players to find minutes for players 8+ on the depth chart.
DukieTiger
Member
Admittedly I haven’t read all of the takes you referenced, talking about Flagg being a 3. That said, I struggle to buy the idea that the 4 is “out of position” for Flagg.
Offensively his ball handling, foot speed, shooting and size are arguably better fits as a 4 where he’s at more of an advantage.
Defensively, I don’t think it matters as much but you want Coop at whatever position he’s best able to be a roving, disruptive help defender. Duke has had success deploying guys like that (not to say there’s anyone quite like Flagg) at both positions.
I also think we’re too quick to assume who Duke’s 5 best players are. Would anyone be surprised if James, Evans or Kon ended up being better college players than Maliach next year? I think the beauty of this roster is that it can flex up and down and Flagg is at the center of that.
All that being said, I have to side with Jason (I think) from the pod, in expecting a lot of Flagg at the 4 next year because otherwise I think shooting and spacing will be a bit of a problem on offense. And I actually don’t think that’s out of position but rather will optimize his skill set in college. But what do I know? I didn’t even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
MChambers
Member
I'd be quite surprised if James, Evans, or Kon is better than Maluach next year. I think Maluach may struggle a bit initially, particularly on defense, such as when Duke plays Kansas (Hunter Dickinson is seven years older than Maluach and Flagg, I think), but as the year goes on he'll learn and he'll be one of Duke's top three players.
I do agree, however, that the roster has a great deal of flexibility and Flagg will play both the 4 and 3.