MBB: Duke 72, KU 75 Post-game Thread

Wow. Nothing surprising in this thread, but wow.

We have a young team that has barely played together. We were a few inches from taking the #1 team to overtime. We have tough players all over the floor and we are only going to get better over the next four months.

Anyone want to place a pie bet on whether Duke is a 1 or 2 seed? Or are you still just feeling cranky until the sun comes up?

One pie that pays to me if Duke is not one of the first eight teams in the bracket. Open for 24 hours.
Sure — I’m in.

This team is apparently only eight players deep and is too reliant on CooperKon.

I’m going to guess four seed. I can’t predict how far they’ll go in the tournament because they can beat anyone when the stars’ shots are falling but will have some shocking losses when they aren’t.
 
I thought Kansas also made at least three 'circus shots' over the course of the game and got a few soft bounces off the rim in the process. In the beginning of the game their shooting was at least two standard deviations above their mean.

Obviously, the most frustrating part is going back-to-back possessions in crunch time without so much as a look at the basket. Missed shots would have been so much more satisfying than empty possessions.

I think this team can beat Auburn. They should try not to get behind by 13 points right off the bat. This has been a recurrent theme over the past few years.
 
and free throws they were 11-12 we were 13-18...those points matter. we can tighten up there..even though as a team we shot well from 3 ,,,KK 0-8 and Gillis 1-5 hurt...Gillis shot like 47% last year...agree with ya ...lots to work with...freshmen feeling that pressure in big time college games and 6 year guys, 24 year olds etc etc. a lot different than high school ball where you the big dog on the court...kinda tell it with the butterfinger hands, slips and reverses into teeth of defense...we will learn...love the team chemistry. they seem to really like each other and can't really say that about some years...we aren't even to December and we've been blessed with great games against top ten teams...need to play these big time non conference games often, whew that was a game with a lot of emotion both ways. I'm wiped..can't wait for next one !!
we were really 13 for 19. There was an inexcusable lane violation on Kneuppels 2nd free throw which cost us his attempt.

But this game really changed when we got 3 fouls in…check notes…5 seconds, right after their goon got ejected. It put Kansas in the bonus and put Brown in foul trouble. And I think our players got the mentality of having to play less aggressive.
 
Just a couple of thoughts - first and foremost, the team showed great poise in the first half when they were down a dozen. They could have folded. That's not us. Next, we can't recruit the best 17- and 18-year-olds and not expect them to make mistakes attributed to their youth. Coop isn't a PG. Handles the ball entirely too much. Hopefully he will get that out of his system. We'll get there. Very proud of this team, despite the loss.
 
Sure — I’m in.

This team is apparently only eight players deep and is too reliant on CooperKon.

I’m going to guess four seed. I can’t predict how far they’ll go in the tournament because they can beat anyone when the stars’ shots are falling but will have some shocking losses when they aren’t.
Excellent! I'm partial to blueberry pie. Although, for a March pie, maybe strawberry rhubarb.
 
Kansas isn't the #1 team unless you take the AP seriously which no one should. This is a terrible loss.
So what are they then? They are #7 in Kenpom. I’m not sure I would call a top 10 loss “terrible”. What’s your definition of a terrible loss?
 
I am having trouble understanding what the desired outcome is supposed to be on a lot of our offensive sets.

For instance, what were we trying to accomplish with all the dribble handoffs and high balls screens in the first half? Most of which with Malauch involved. Simply trying to open up the paint? That would then require our guards to beat their man off the dribble - which they have not consistently done at all this year. It looked more like a high school offense than a top tier d1 Duke offense.

maybe the lack of a true PG is the main issue on offense? But then whose fault is that? I do not think Kon is the answer at pg/initiator
Kon is the only one who can get in the paint. This team is trouble in the long run as long as proctor only works from the perimeter. Foster, I’m really not sure what his role is, but he hasn’t shown signs of being a playmaker. He did have a couple moments on dribble driving but then disappeared.
 
Metrics

For the first time this year, the defense didn't grade out very well. It didn't help that Kansas shot really well, including some shots that they really shouldn't have made (I'm looking at you, KJ Adams from 15 feet). It wasn't as bad a defensive performance as the box score suggests, but it wasn't good enough. The offense had its best showing against a good opponent so far, but it wasn't quite enough.

OFFENSE
Possessions: 68.1 (a medium-to-slow pace)
oRtg: 105.7 (115.4 adjusted; would be #30 in the country right now)
eFG%: 61.5% (excellent)
3pt%: 42.3% (very good)
2pt%: 59.1% (excellent)
%threes: 54.2% (really high)
FT rate: 37.5% (not great, but easily our best of the season)
OR%: 19.2% (awful)
TO%: 23.5% (bad)
a/to: 1.06 (not great)
%assisted: 70.8% (very high)
fast break pts: 13 (okay)

DEFENSE
dRtg: 110.1 (98.2 adjusted; would be #48 in the country right now)
eFG%: 56.1% (bad)
3pt%: 47.1% (bad)
2pt%: 50.0% (okay)
%threes: 29.8% (low)
FT rate: 21.1% (very good)
DR%: 66.7% (mediocre)
TO%: 23.5% (good)
a/to: 1.33 (mediocre)
%assisted: 78.6% (VERY high)
stl%: 16.1% (strong)
blk%: 7.1% (2pt shots) (not great)
fast break pts: 10 (okay)

We shot really well... when we got shots off. But we turned it over too much, and we didn't get second-chances when we missed. We turned them over pretty well, but couldn't keep them off the glass and allowed them to make too high a percentage too. In terms of the four factors, we won the eFG% game (though it was close), the FT rate game, and tied in the turnovers game. But we lost badly on the rebounding game, and they shot much better from the FT line than we did (largely offsetting our FTR edge). Essentially, the rebounding deficit was enough to overtake our shooting edge, and the rest turned out to be a wash.

Disappointing result. I liked the way the team fought back to tie the game and eventually to get the lead briefly. But Kansas kept having answers after we made runs.
 
Metrics

For the first time this year, the defense didn't grade out very well. It didn't help that Kansas shot really well, including some shots that they really shouldn't have made (I'm looking at you, KJ Adams from 15 feet). It wasn't as bad a defensive performance as the box score suggests, but it wasn't good enough. The offense had its best showing against a good opponent so far, but it wasn't quite enough.

OFFENSE
Possessions: 68.1 (a medium-to-slow pace)
oRtg: 105.7 (115.4 adjusted; would be #30 in the country right now)
eFG%: 61.5% (excellent)
3pt%: 42.3% (very good)
2pt%: 59.1% (excellent)
%threes: 54.2% (really high)
FT rate: 37.5% (not great, but easily our best of the season)
OR%: 19.2% (awful)
TO%: 23.5% (bad)
a/to: 1.06 (not great)
%assisted: 70.8% (very high)
fast break pts: 13 (okay)

DEFENSE
dRtg: 110.1 (98.2 adjusted; would be #48 in the country right now)
eFG%: 56.1% (bad)
3pt%: 47.1% (bad)
2pt%: 50.0% (okay)
%threes: 29.8% (low)
FT rate: 21.1% (very good)
DR%: 66.7% (mediocre)
TO%: 23.5% (good)
a/to: 1.33 (mediocre)
%assisted: 78.6% (VERY high)
stl%: 16.1% (strong)
blk%: 7.1% (2pt shots) (not great)
fast break pts: 10 (okay)

We shot really well... when we got shots off. But we turned it over too much, and we didn't get second-chances when we missed. We turned them over pretty well, but couldn't keep them off the glass and allowed them to make too high a percentage too. In terms of the four factors, we won the eFG% game (though it was close), the FT rate game, and tied in the turnovers game. But we lost badly on the rebounding game, and they shot much better from the FT line than we did (largely offsetting our FTR edge). Essentially, the rebounding deficit was enough to overtake our shooting edge, and the rest turned out to be a wash.

Disappointing result. I liked the way the team fought back to tie the game and eventually to get the lead briefly. But Kansas kept having answers after we made runs.
I think most of our fast break points came in the first half.
 
My thoughts, in no particular order.

1) Refs were bad, and it seems we got the brunt of it. Missed foul on Proctor's 3pt shot at the half. Missed Dickinson hook on Maliq called a foul on Maliq. Missed armbar used by Dickinson to push Maliq off. Missed travel call on their player that was called a block on us. Incorrectly called a foul on Maliq when he was simply boxing out Dickinson who happened to be in midair - this was really an over-the-back foul. Correctly ejected Dickinson, but then inexplicably let him sit on the bench. After the Dickinson ejection, called several perimeter touch fouls in the span of seconds against Duke as a make-up. And yet, if the thought was to snuff the physicality out of the game - how did they miss that on Duke's very next offensive play, Cooper Flagg was fouled multiple times in the air while he went for his massive dunk?

2) Proctor should be getting more praise. Not just for this game, but for his season so far. He has career highs in FG % and 3P % (50%!) while playing elite defense. Yes, he's not our point guard, but so far he's specifically been asked to play off guard and he's doing a superb job. He does need to improve his free throw shooting which is oddly down - hopefully small sample size.

3) Caleb Foster doesn't seem like a starter right now. Every single one of his stat lines is inferior to Sion James, who is also significantly older and more experienced. Start Sion.

4) Given the absence of a playmaking guard, options include Kon or Proctor. In either case, we may lose some of their scoring punch. But early enough in the season to tinker with it and see what happens. With Proctor, we know he can do at least a serviceable job as PG based on last year.

5) Cooper Flagg is an elite talent and will get better. But he needs to be coached ASAP about what to do in a double team situation or how to avoid dribbling into traffic in the paint. A double team means there's an open player - find him. It's okay in my book that this happened a second time after Kentucky. But if it keeps happening, it starts to remind me of all the dribble spin turnovers from Filipowski in his freshman year. It feels like it should be easily correctable with some tape.

6) Mason Gillis has been a liability so far. He is supposed to bring elite shooting, but through 6 games he is shooting 29% from 3. Much has been said about Kon's 0-8 performance from 3, but Gillis was 1-5 and he did not bring the other benefits Kon did like scoring and distributing. It's possible his 47% line from last year was an aberration and/or benefitted from Edey's gravity. But still, he's a career 40% shooter with no season lower than 35%. Hopefully this isn't another Grandison situation. He deserves more leash, but also at some point the coaching staff needs to evaluate him based on what he's doing rather than his career stats.

7) Scheyer's coaching. Look, he did some good things. I like the last two plays to get the ball over half court and Kon's last look wasn't bad and almost went in. I also liked the adjustment to make Kon playmaker. But there are some serious headscratchers. Like:
  • Why not challenge the missed hook on Dickinson? That was worth two points, would have taken a foul off Maliq, and would have given Dickinson an extra foul (which admittedly ended up being a moot point).
  • Once Dickinson was out, why no adjustments? Specifically, why was Malauch not in the game more? We had issues rebounding the ball. We should have had a clear advantage here that we missed on.
  • Of course, the inability to get a shot off at the end. Look, part of that was on Kon, but it's definitely been a pattern over these Scheyer years. The team needs to be coached - broken play or not - put the ball up! If Kon had put the ball up instead of passed it at the last second, maybe it goes in; maybe he get a foul called; maybe Malauch gets a rebound.
  • I would have liked to see some zone, especially after the string of touch foul make-up calls. Yes, they were shooting well from 3, but they're not an elite 3-point shooting team, and the real issue is that they were able to get in the paint.

I think this team has a lot of upside and Scheyer's teams have tended to improve over the course of the last two seasons. That said, I can't shake the feeling that Scheyer is losing games that his predecessor would have won. Unfair standard? I hear ya. I also can't shake the feeling that Scheyer is losing games that some of his peers at top blue bloods would be winning.
 
Our starting guards 2 assist 5 turnovers. Their starting guards 13 assists 6 turnovers. It really struck me how big our guards are when we brought the ball down the court. I really think with our HUGE size advantage with our three guards I would have focused on driving them hard all game to wear down Harris and throw him off his offensive game. I get how our offense runs through Kon and Cooper but let’s take advantage of our size at the guard position. I have faith in these guys.
 
Long road trip with a young team. There was a lot of adversity in that game. It wasnt out of reach.we will be better from it by January.
A few things that can be corrected. We are in good shape .
Concerned? sure .I'm not hitting the panic button just yet.
Brown was giving up a few inches and 40 pounds against fouldemort. I was impressed with the defensive effort .
We will be ok.
 
Metrics

For the first time this year, the defense didn't grade out very well. It didn't help that Kansas shot really well, including some shots that they really shouldn't have made (I'm looking at you, KJ Adams from 15 feet). It wasn't as bad a defensive performance as the box score suggests, but it wasn't good enough. The offense had its best showing against a good opponent so far, but it wasn't quite enough.

OFFENSE
Possessions: 68.1 (a medium-to-slow pace)
oRtg: 105.7 (115.4 adjusted; would be #30 in the country right now)
eFG%: 61.5% (excellent)
3pt%: 42.3% (very good)
2pt%: 59.1% (excellent)
%threes: 54.2% (really high)
FT rate: 37.5% (not great, but easily our best of the season)
OR%: 19.2% (awful)
TO%: 23.5% (bad)
a/to: 1.06 (not great)
%assisted: 70.8% (very high)
fast break pts: 13 (okay)

DEFENSE
dRtg: 110.1 (98.2 adjusted; would be #48 in the country right now)
eFG%: 56.1% (bad)
3pt%: 47.1% (bad)
2pt%: 50.0% (okay)
%threes: 29.8% (low)
FT rate: 21.1% (very good)
DR%: 66.7% (mediocre)
TO%: 23.5% (good)
a/to: 1.33 (mediocre)
%assisted: 78.6% (VERY high)
stl%: 16.1% (strong)
blk%: 7.1% (2pt shots) (not great)
fast break pts: 10 (okay)

We shot really well... when we got shots off. But we turned it over too much, and we didn't get second-chances when we missed. We turned them over pretty well, but couldn't keep them off the glass and allowed them to make too high a percentage too. In terms of the four factors, we won the eFG% game (though it was close), the FT rate game, and tied in the turnovers game. But we lost badly on the rebounding game, and they shot much better from the FT line than we did (largely offsetting our FTR edge). Essentially, the rebounding deficit was enough to overtake our shooting edge, and the rest turned out to be a wash.

Disappointing result. I liked the way the team fought back to tie the game and eventually to get the lead briefly. But Kansas kept having answers after we made runs.
Also wonder if our defense was elite if you take out the first few mins of the game where they hit every shot and we went down big.
 
Well said. I think the one seed ship has sailed, however, as there are unlikely to be enough Q1 win opportunities in conference play this year.
This has been my point from the beginning of the season. I’m so tired of the “we’ll get better with time, yada, yada…” With the current state of the ACC, Duke has to schedule big non-conference games at the beginning of the season, and they have to win them. Gotta be ready to play at a high level from the jump, like Kansas has been. They were clearly the better team: stronger, tougher, better shooters, better defense, better coaching. The 1 seed is gone at this point. If we win every game from now until March we have a shot at a 2 or 3. Lose a few games, we’re a 4. My expectations have officially been lowered for this season, and the story is already sounding all too familiar. Young Duke players and young Duke coach outplayed and out coached by more experienced guys in critical moments. Lots of talent that will be awesome in a few years— when they’re in the NBA. Another run to the Sweet 16, Elite 8! Yay.
 
This has been my point from the beginning of the season. I’m so tired of the “we’ll get better with time, yada, yada…” With the current state of the ACC, Duke has to schedule big non-conference games at the beginning of the season, and they have to win them. Gotta be ready to play at a high level from the jump, like Kansas has been. They were clearly the better team: stronger, tougher, better shooters, better defense, better coaching. The 1 seed is gone at this point. If we win every game from now until March we have a shot at a 2 or 3. Lose a few games, we’re a 4. My expectations have officially been lowered for this season, and the story is already sounding all too familiar. Young Duke players and young Duke coach outplayed and out coached by more experienced guys in critical moments. Lots of talent that will be awesome in a few years— when they’re in the NBA. Another run to the Sweet 16, Elite 8! Yay.
I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and state that, if we win every game for the rest of the season, not only will we be a 1 seed, we will be the #1 overall seed. If math serves me correctly, that would put us at 32-2 lol. A shot at a 2 or a 3? Lol.

Some of you just need to take a deep breath and step back a little here and relax.
 
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