Conference Realignment

I agree with all that you have laid out. A logical conclusion is that schools like UConn and Duke have limited NIL dollars and they simply cannot keep up with spending to be remotely competitive in football. But, with the advantage of branding, they might they be able to compete in basketball if the don’t spread their NIL money too thin. At some point they’ll have to choose whether to move out of desperation to max football earnings or to protect the basketball program. Duke’s football revenue will continue to decline as the other conferences drastically increase. If you have a good coach or player one year, they’ll be gone the next. If they’re smart, they’re planning on a post football money reality. It’s coming.
This seems like a clear eyed take. Over time schools like Alabama won't be subsidizing Vandy. OSU won't be subsidizing Northwestern. And FSU and Clemson won't be subsidizing Duke and Wake. Our asset is a blue blood basketball program. If market forces have their way, our football team will eventually be bc a casualty of big money college sports.
 
I still don’t understand why nobody has stepped up to separate football from the other sports. Let the conferences realign for football and keep the rest as is (though it will be hard to reconstitute the PAC12…damage has already been done).
 
This seems like a clear eyed take. Over time schools like Alabama won't be subsidizing Vandy. OSU won't be subsidizing Northwestern. And FSU and Clemson won't be subsidizing Duke and Wake. Our asset is a blue blood basketball program. If market forces have their way, our football team will eventually be bc a casualty of big money college sports.
Here's the net net from my limited vantage point.

If Duke no longer has a chair when the music stops and they don't have a seat at some conference table to compete as a national power in basketball.. I can very easily not watch any more sports. I am not a basketball fan. I am a Duke Basketball Fan. Everybody else can go pound sand.
I'm not sure they (the power brokers fully grok this or even if they do - they underestimate the backlash)

Its not like I'm picking a new team at this point in my life.
If they ruin it for me, I can stop feeding the beast walk away.
 
I still don’t understand why nobody has stepped up to separate football from the other sports. Let the conferences realign for football and keep the rest as is (though it will be hard to reconstitute the PAC12…damage has already been done).
Well, if football is unlaced from the rest of sports, Duke would absolutely take a huge hit. Basketball being woven into the conference fabric is the only reason we're still in a top conference.
 
I agree with all that you have laid out. A logical conclusion is that schools like UConn and Duke have limited NIL dollars and they simply cannot keep up with spending to be remotely competitive in football. But, with the advantage of branding, they might they be able to compete in basketball if the don’t spread their NIL money too thin. At some point they’ll have to choose whether to move out of desperation to max football earnings or to protect the basketball program. Duke’s football revenue will continue to decline as the other conferences drastically increase. If you have a good coach or player one year, they’ll be gone the next. If they’re smart, they’re planning on a post football money reality. It’s coming.
Dukes problem is kind of the ACC's on the whole too. Duke hoops is a premium "boutique" brand but it is vulnerable to a few bad years in a row of fading away.....and the "numbers" cannot save Duke. The ACC's brand is fading too in hoops a bit. I was thinking last night...the person who never got his value FROM Duke was Christian Laettner. How much of Duke's brand is tied to 91-92 and specifically to the Kentucky game? No way to ever measure this, because we can't go back and see where Duke is without "the shot" (and who would want to?)....but Laettner is so key to the reason Duke is Duke. Others too but him head and shoulders above others. Today's NIL money for Duke hoops is due to him in a lot of ways, and K of course and the others....My problem with NIL is that the only reason I care about today's players are YESTERDAYS players....but it is what it is.

Related: UConn has the "U of" cache, though it is Connecticut and there are limits to that advantage....but they also are the U of ESPN and that's MASSIVE advantage for them. It was ESPN that turned "Connecticut" into UCONN.

The irony is....if FSU and Clemson were so hellbent to destroy the ACC...and UNC and NCSU and maybe others along with them...if the Big Ten did decide to bring Duke in for hoop revenues and suffer one more "Northwestern" in football....that would be rich indeed. Strange times. I still predict we're not gonna like the overall outcome. I already don't.....
 
Here's the net net from my limited vantage point.....(SNIP)
If they ruin it for me, I can stop feeding the beast walk away.
They have, they will, and you will, along with others. Five minutes ago the beast was over fed. Now we are being begged to feed it more. That irony will sink in. And before people walk away, they will start to care less, and the caring is the key to the magic of college sports. Gambling viewers and the "new car smell" of all the newness of NIL and re-alignment will hide the iceberg for a few years....but the GAF is gone and I think the ice berg's damage is far greater than anyone seems to know at this point. Then the golden goose (sorry for mixing metaphors) will be at least diseased.

I say this with 60% confidence........
 
They have, they will, and you will, along with others. Five minutes ago the beast was over fed. Now we are being begged to feed it more. That irony will sink in. And before people walk away, they will start to care less, and the caring is the key to the magic of college sports. Gambling viewers and the "new car smell" of all the newness of NIL and re-alignment will hide the iceberg for a few years....but the GAF is gone and I think the ice berg's damage is far greater than anyone seems to know at this point. Then the golden goose (sorry for mixing metaphors) will be at least diseased.

I say this with 60% confidence........
I 100% dig the titanic metaphor buffet.
 
Well, if football is unlaced from the rest of sports, Duke would absolutely take a huge hit. Basketball being woven into the conference fabric is the only reason we're still in a top conference.
Well, if you mean Duke football would take a hit, I suppose that’s true. But I think it would only mean that Duke’s in a second tier football conference. Like they are today already.
 
I still don’t understand why nobody has stepped up to separate football from the other sports. Let the conferences realign for football and keep the rest as is (though it will be hard to reconstitute the PAC12…damage has already been done).
Here's a theory: The SEC and the Big Ten are driving this bus, and they look at dominating FB and NIL revenues as the way for them to dominate mens BB too.
 
Here's a theory: The SEC and the Big Ten are driving this bus, and they look at dominating FB and NIL revenues as the way for them to dominate mens BB too.
Yeah, even if football was formally out of the NCAA equation, any athletic department raking in big bucks from a hypothetical independent football league would still have a leg up across the board, presumably. Just like if Bill Gates and I were bidding on the same house, he'd have a big advantage over me there even though I don't compete with him on developing software.

The saving grace might be that a non-NCAA football super league might be so expensive to compete in that there is limited money left to trickle down into basketball and the non-revenues.
 
Yeah, even if football was formally out of the NCAA equation, any athletic department raking in big bucks from a hypothetical independent football league would still have a leg up across the board, presumably. Just like if Bill Gates and I were bidding on the same house, he'd have a big advantage over me there even though I don't compete with him on developing software.

The saving grace might be that a non-NCAA football super league might be so expensive to compete in that there is limited money left to trickle down into basketball and the non-revenues.

Football schools are going to spend a lot of money on the football team and what’s leftover on basketball and other sports. They are competing in football with other schools spending a lot of money on football. If the football team wins and the basketball team sucks, they’ll move some deck chairs to improve basketball. But they’re not giving up a 4star backup QB for a 5star OAD lottery pick. I feel pretty confident that SC fans would rather beat Clemson in football than win a national championship in basketball.
 
Football schools are going to spend a lot of money on the football team and what’s leftover on basketball and other sports. They are competing in football with other schools spending a lot of money on football. If the football team wins and the basketball team sucks, they’ll move some deck chairs to improve basketball. But they’re not giving up a 4star backup QB for a 5star OAD lottery pick. I feel pretty confident that SC fans would rather beat Clemson in football than win a national championship in basketball.
Everybody in the Big Ten and the SEC, as it appears now, will have plenty of money to run their FB program and have plenty left over to swamp other conferences' teams in basketball too. And these leagues will make huge money in basketball too. They already do, and as they gain dominance, that will only increase.

That is, til the rip the ice berg has left starts to really manifest itself. Meanwhile, the band plays on.....
 
For the record, Stanford is bound by the GoR. There’s little risk of them leaving over the near-term. But ND is delusional and thinks that by tethering themselves to Stanford, people think they’re a better school than they are. Stanford will be fine in the end bc (1) they have insane money, and (2) ND is looking out for them.

I’m honestly coming around more to reality that Duke athletics as a whole is dying a slow death if we stay in the ACC. Our best hope is taking a reduced share of the BIG if they let us in.

If we’re in the Big East and give up all our other sports for MBB, I will be sick. You guys have no idea how much the other sports actually do for the school and community. And I’m not just talking about football.

Too many MBB fans on here. Not enough Duke fans. It’s not the majority by any means, most people here care about all. But feels like it’s 25-30% are MBB only. It’s really sad to me to see your apathy for everything else.

Hope you don’t have daughters reading the Title IX comments that some of you have made
 
Last edited:
For the record, Stanford is bound by the GoR. There’s little risk of them leaving over the near-term. But ND is delusional and thinks that by tethering themselves to Stanford, people think they’re a better school than they are. Stanford will be fine in the end bc (1) they have insane money, and (2) ND is looking out for them.

I’m honestly coming around more to reality that Duke athletics as a whole is dying a slow death if we stay in the ACC. Our best hope is taking a reduced share of the BIG if they let us in.

If we’re in the Big East and give up all our other sports for MBB, I will be sick. You guys have no idea how much the other sports actually do for the school and community. And I’m not just talking about football.

Too many MBB fans on here. Not enough Duke fans. It’s not the majority by any means, most people here care about all. But feels like it’s 25-30% are MBB only. It’s really sad to me to see your apathy for everything else.

Hope you don’t have daughters reading the Title IX comments that some of you have made
Shocking that there are basketball fans on the Duke Basketball Report.
 
Too many MBB fans on here. Not enough Duke fans. It’s not the majority by any means, most people here care about all. But feels like it’s 25-30% are MBB only. It’s really sad to me to see your apathy for everything else.
It really would be welcomed by many if you would stop insulting posters here, and the focus of the board, because they do not fit your view of what it means to be a “true” Duke fan or that football “should” be everyone’s main focus.

I love a Duke football. I’ve been to our bowls in Tampa, El Paso, NYC, Birmingham, Atlanta, Detroit, and probably one or two that I’ve forgotten. I’ve gone to road games in South Bend, Atlanta (v. Alabama), and at several ACC schools. I’ve met a dozen DBR posters at tailgates in Durham.

But it’s not my place, or anyone’s place, to tell others how they should enjoy Duke sports. Please.

Thanks.
 
I don't think I've seen this answered yet. For a "reduced" payout from the Big 10. how much does that "reduced" payout compare to what Duke is already getting from the ACC. :rolleyes:
 
It’s always nice when you write something thoughtful, then have it cherry picked for one sentence.

Please read my whole post, particularly the line after the one calling out MBB only folks.

The last 8 pages have some pretty messed up comments that make some people look like they don’t value women’s athletics at all on this site. And I’m not even going to touch the posts that imply that without football, black men wouldn’t be present on campus in the same numbers (though for any mods reading this, those posts genuinely should be removed).

There are sports that add value to the whole campus community and are important to make people feel represented, even if they aren’t revenue generating.

Appreciate MBB is worshiped by people here (and as I’ve admitted openly, I don’t care for it and am only on this site bc it is the only Duke site out there with real traffic; though I do appreciate MBB for the value it brings to my diploma). But there are other constituents that need to be considered. And I’m very much not talking about football
 
There’s nothing wrong with D3 athletics for women’s and men’s sports including football. There are colleges and universities that are largely D3 except for one sport. Johns Hopkins with lacrosse. Union College with hockey. I think D3 Duke with D1 basketball would be great. Johns Hopkins seems a good comp for Duke. Great academics, strong graduate programs including the med school. No need to be involved in the greedy world of big time college football. Or you could get out of D1 college sports altogether and go the U Chicago route. I wouldn’t like that - too much of a Duke MBB fan.
 
Last edited:
There’s nothing wrong with D3 athletics for women’s and men’s sports including football. There are colleges and universities that are largely D3 except for one sport. Johns Hopkins with lacrosse. Union College with hockey. I think D3 Duke with D1 basketball would be great. Johns Hopkins seems a good comp for Duke. Great academics, strong graduate programs including the med school. No need to be involved in the greedy world of big time college football.
If Duke was always D3, it would be a fair solution in my view. But taking away the opportunity for students to compete at the highest level (men’s and women’s) and just leave one protected group is a bad look
 
If Duke was always D3, it would be a fair solution in my view. But taking away the opportunity for students to compete at the highest level (men’s and women’s) and just leave one protected group is a bad look
I don’t see why it matters if we were always D3. The landscape of college football has changed dramatically, and to me it seems it is no longer compatible with the mission of Duke as a premier academic institution. Which is exactly what the University of Chicago decided after over 40 years of playing in the Big 10.

I admit that my fondness for MBB takes away from my moral argument. I can’t help myself.
 
Back
Top