Sex Abuse Allegation at Syracuse Basketball

[feldspar]

Well, either way, if Syracuse was thinking about giving Boeheim the axe, they would have done it by now, as the 'Cuse are playing tonight. Looks like, at least for now, his job is safe.

[Double DD]

Not really. Legally speaking, that's pretty thin. The suspect is not a party to the conversation. All it really is is his wife, who clearly does not think much of him, agreeing with the complaining witness, though she did not witness anything and is only going on what he is telling her happened and offering vague hearsay and speculation about other matters. The fact that the two of them have had an intimate relationship would certainly be important in weighing the impact of her statements in any event.

I think the important thing, though, is that ESPN shouldn't have taken it upon itself to conduct that weighing process, to determine if sufficient corroboration of the allegations existed, and the like. Those are legal matters. That was for law enforcement and prosecutors to determine at the time. Their job, not ESPN's. ESPN should have turned over what it had, and let the police and prosecutors complete their investigation, including following up on the tape, and if something came of it, fine, and if not, fine too. For ESPN to make the decision unilaterally that it was not sufficient, without involving the legal authorities, was wrong. Not their call to make.

Except that Davis was the one who made the tape and had informed ESPN of going to the police previously. I'm not sure what their thinking was but I'll speculate that they assumed he would have turned over evidence of the recording to the police first before supplying it to them.

[JasonEvans]

Well, either way, if Syracuse was thinking about giving Boeheim the axe, they would have done it by now, as the 'Cuse are playing tonight. Looks like, at least for now, his job is safe.

I really think they have to be certain of the facts here. With Sandusky, a thorough police and grand jury investigation was done and there was a mountain of evidence including numerous eye witnesses. That is not even close to the case with Fine. It may be a tad early to be firing their coach of 30+ years until Syracuse knows a bit more about the proven facts of the case.

Question for everyone-- if it turns out that Davis faked the taped phone conversation in some way, does that change your view on the entire thing?

-Jason

[ForkFondler]

I really think they have to be certain of the facts here. With Sandusky, a thorough police and grand jury investigation was done and there was a mountain of evidence including numerous eye witnesses. That is not even close to the case with Fine. It may be a tad early to be firing their coach of 30+ years until Syracuse knows a bit more about the proven facts of the case.

Question for everyone-- if it turns out that Davis faked the taped phone conversation in some way, does that change your view on the entire thing?

-Jason

There's always the old "whatever they did is bad enough" argument to fall back on.

[sagegrouse]

I really think they have to be certain of the facts here. With Sandusky, a thorough police and grand jury investigation was done and there was a mountain of evidence including numerous eye witnesses. That is not even close to the case with Fine. It may be a tad early to be firing their coach of 30+ years until Syracuse knows a bit more about the proven facts of the case.

Question for everyone-- if it turns out that Davis faked the taped phone conversation in some way, does that change your view on the entire thing?

-Jason

Boeheim may or may not survive. It was fairly clear at Penn State that there was evidence of a huge coverup that left a predator on the loose. Syracuse did an investigation immediately upon hearing the charges -- we will find out soon enough how thorough it was. Aside from improper public remarks, I can't figure out what Jim Boeheim has done wrong.

At Penn State I also wonder whether the Board thought it was surely time for JoePa to go. He was showing his age, and he was vociferous about staying.

sage

[bundabergdevil]

Question for everyone-- if it turns out that Davis faked the taped phone conversation in some way, does that change your view on the entire thing?

It depends on how exactly he might have faked it. The transcript of the conversation is pretty incriminating. Assuming it's Fine's wife making the statements, I'm not sure how he could have edited the recording to make it any more damning short of splicing together bits and pieces of speech to form the answers he wanted. That seems preposterous to me and something that would be easily identified. Maybe he edited the overall flow of the conversation but still, some of Fine's wife's statements are just so incriminating. Obviously if it's not Fine's wife on the phone, that would change my thought process.

The conclusion I just keep arriving at is that something is rotten in (the state of) Syracuse. It is being reported that Davis also lost his virginity to Fine's wife as an inebriated high school junior. Fine's wife niece says its her on the tape. There's the implication that Fine's wife knew her husband was a pedophile. There's Davis seeking money from Fine later in life. There's the fact that Davis reportedly went to the police, to the University, to the local newspaper, and then to ESPN in the early 2000s and nothing came of it because nobody would corroborate his story and because the statue of limitations is over. Now, because of the Sandusky stuff, Davis decides to make the accusations again. There's Boeheim's callous statements about the whole ordeal.

Honestly, it's hard to sort through everything but I tend to believe that people cry "child molestation" even more infrequently than people cry "rape." Obviously it happens (LAX and such). But, three victims, the tape...I dunno.

On a side note, has anyone seen the story about the University of Utah professor watching child pornography on a plane. I know the "to catch a predator" shows really illuminated just how embedded in our society pedophiles are but it sure seems like there have been a spate of stories about it. Sadly, it shouldn't be surprising --- I dated a girl for many years who was very involved in missing children cases/child victim services and was shocked about the stories she told me. If anyone has seen the movie "Taken"...along those lines, in America, with much younger children. It's disgusting but there is truly a market for everything.

[moonpie23]

Question for everyone-- if it turns out that Davis faked the taped phone conversation in some way, does that change your view on the entire thing?

I'm not sure how he could have edited the recording to make it any more damning short of splicing together bits and pieces of speech to form the answers he wanted. That seems preposterous to me and something that would be easily identified.

TOTALLY possible...i do it all the time....pro tools is an amazing software and you can make anyone say about anything if you have enough material to work with...

[bundabergdevil]

TOTALLY possible...i do it all the time....pro tools is an amazing software and you can make anyone say about anything if you have enough material to work with...

Thanks for the info. I guess that shows how up to date I am on such things. Three questions - would that software have been around in the early 2000s when the tape was allegedly made? Say Davis recorded Fine's wife saying completely innocuous things. Would he have then been able to use the software to manufacture her saying words that she had not actually said? I'm thinking of some of the "gay boys", "D**ks", and such that is in the alleged transcript. And, finally, I imagine that sort of thing, if said software is readily available, would be easy to identify by experts as a fake. Is that your sense?

I guess I haven't seen anywhere what format the recording is in...digital, the old cassette tape standby, etc.

[throatybeard]

1) Mike Pressler is not relevant to this subject in any way, and it's simply inflammatory to be bringing the Duke Lacrosse mess up at all.

2) This isn't particularly relevant either, but I didn't know where else to put it; I just thought it was an interesting factoid. Boeheim has a record 33 twenty-win seasons. That's really amazing. I wondered where Mike Krzyzewski was and I think I count 27. One at Army and 26 here. So Boeheim would have to get canned this year and Coach K would have to get though his age-70 season just to catch him on that one, and that's assuming all six seasons (2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017) would be twenty-win seasons.

3) This certainly isn't relevant, but it's also interesting. Billy Donovan just won #400. And he's at roughly the same age as Coach K was, 46-47. After his psychy-mo hire with the Orlando Magic, you wonder if he is or is not a lifer.

Apologies for the sidebar--thought it was interesting.

[moonpie23]

Thanks for the info. I guess that shows how up to date I am on such things. Three questions - would that software have been around in the early 2000s when the tape was allegedly made? Say Davis recorded Fine's wife saying completely innocuous things. Would he have then been able to use the software to manufacture her saying words that she had not actually said? I'm thinking of some of the "gay boys", "D**ks", and such that is in the alleged transcript. And, finally, I imagine that sort of thing, if said software is readily available, would be easy to identify by experts as a fake. Is that your sense?

I guess I haven't seen anywhere what format the recording is in...digital, the old cassette tape standby, etc.

that software called "sound tools" came out in 89...not quite as intricate or as many bells and whistles, but definitely capable... It's not easy to manufacture words, but it's not impossible. i can cut and paste any syllable as well as detune or pitch up for emphasis and closure...now if you have the person saying all the words you want them to say, just not in order, or context, you've prolly got enough to manipulate just about any conversation you want...

depending on how much voodoo you had to use to manufacture a passage, or edit, or phrase, an expert may or may not be able to tell. I'd like to think that i could, but i've fooled other "experts" as well....simply because the software is that good...(and the pilot

also, it doesn't matter what format the original is in....dumped into a computer, edited and then put BACK onto any format you want to...

[JasonEvans]

My bet is that Laurie Fine is going to claim the conversation was edited and that many of her comments were taken out of context. She may also say she was agreeing with this guy on the phone because she was afraid of him and afraid of what he might say about her husband in public. Heck, she will probably say she was worried about him outing her sexual relationship with him, which could end her marriage and possibly (depending on his age at the time of the affair) end up with her in jail. She will say she only went along with the conversation in an effort to appease a man that she thought might be dangerous and crazy.

Whether that is the truth or not, we may never know, but that is at least a somewhat plausible story on her part to explain the phone call.

-Jason "this whole thing is uuuuugly" Evans

[roywhite]

Did ESPN Drop the Syracuse ball?

This is an article on yahoo.com. Dan Patrick over the last 2 days has been hitting ESPN hard on this, also. Quotes from the article by Allen Berra:

The sports media have been quick to tell us that the Syracuse sex-abuse scandal is not the same as the Penn State sex-abuse scandal. That is, Penn State head football coach and college football icon Joe Paterno knew of the allegations concerning his friend and former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky for years and did nothing, while his basketball counterpart at Syracuse, head coach Jim Boeheim, does not seem to have known about the allegations concerning his friend and longtime assistant coach Bernie Fine until recently. So, for the moment at least, there appears to be no cover-up by the boss.

What the sports media are not telling us is that the big difference between the Penn State scandal and the one that has just exploded at Syracuse is this: it is the media that did the covering up. Well, perhaps not entirely. It probably will be a couple of more weeks before we know which local authorities knew what and when they knew it...

In a statement riddled with tortuous double talk, ESPN reporter Mark Schwarz tried to explain ESPN’s position. “We did not go to the authorities with the tape. The authorities did speak to Bobby Davis before the tape was made in 2002. He spoke to a Syracuse police detective, who he says spent five minutes on the phone with him and didn’t even do a detective report ... [The detective] told him the statute of limitations had come and gone, and that was why Bobby Davis says he recorded the tape to try to at least corroborate his story this way.”

[roywhite]

ESPN should have pressed Fine allegations

There's a lot of outrage right now over ESPN's failure to report in 2003 that there were sexual abuse allegations against Syracuse assistant basketball coach Bernie Fine.

We're hearing it from fans through the Poynter Review Project mailbag. And a handful of critics have called out the network via blogs and Twitter, suggesting that if ESPN was not confident enough to publish, it should have at least gone to law enforcement with its information.

We do not believe ESPN acted with gross negligence, but rather a lack of persistence. And we don't believe ESPN was responsible for leaving other children vulnerable; that's on the Syracuse PD.

[roywhite]

#2 - Jim Boeheim did more than just go out on a limb for an old friend. He disparaged an alleged sexual abuse victim. Called him a liar and a money-grubber. He made a statement with his words that he's gonna support his program and his people, even though not all of the facts had come to light. I don't think that, as a leader, you get to do that and keep your job. Jim Boeheim, with his words, created an environment that discourages sexual abuse victims from coming forward. Who knows how many more are out there? You think they want to come forward when Jim Boeheim, one of the most powerful college basketball coaches in the country, is going to call them a liar and a money-grubber? No way.

All I know is, if I were living in/near Syracuse and was thinking about sending my boy to Boeheim's basketball camp next summer, you better believe I'm shopping around for a different camp, because no way under God's green earth am I sending him into that environment. No way. And that is a direct reflection on Boeheim.

A couple weeks later, he sounds a lot different. This is about as apologetic a scene as you see from a public figure.

Boeheim sorry for questioning accusers

[duke96]

A couple weeks later, he sounds a lot different. This is about as apologetic a scene as you see from a public figure.

Boeheim sorry for questioning accusers

He nailed that. Pitch perfect apology. After a pretty bad initial screwup, he has really done the right thing since the Lori Fine tape came out. I think he keeps his job with some sort of minor wrist slap from the school. Would be the right outcome, and hope it happens. He's one of the good guys.

[tommy]

The conclusion I just keep arriving at is that something is rotten in (the state of) Syracuse. It is being reported that Davis also lost his virginity to Fine's wife as an inebriated high school junior. Fine's wife niece says its her on the tape. There's the implication that Fine's wife knew her husband was a pedophile. There's Davis seeking money from Fine later in life. There's the fact that Davis reportedly went to the police, to the University, to the local newspaper, and then to ESPN in the early 2000s and nothing came of it because nobody would corroborate his story and because the statue of limitations is over. Now, because of the Sandusky stuff, Davis decides to make the accusations again. There's Boeheim's callous statements about the whole ordeal.

With the possible exception of Davis seeking money from Fine -- which can be spun different ways -- none of the rest of that is likely to be admissible in court.

[anon]

A bit off topic, but the ESPN article linked above pointed out that Gerry McNamara—he of 2006 Big East Tournament fame—is now an assistant coach at Syracuse. Cool! Good for him.

[blueduke59]

My bet is that Laurie Fine is going to claim the conversation was edited and that many of her comments were taken out of context. She may also say she was agreeing with this guy on the phone because she was afraid of him and afraid of what he might say about her husband in public. Heck, she will probably say she was worried about him outing her sexual relationship with him, which could end her marriage and possibly (depending on his age at the time of the affair) end up with her in jail. She will say she only went along with the conversation in an effort to appease a man that she thought might be dangerous and crazy.

Whether that is the truth or not, we may never know, but that is at least a somewhat plausible story on her part to explain the phone call.

-Jason "this whole thing is uuuuugly" Evans

Maybe they're both dangerous and crazy? Did that lady sound stable to anyone in that conversation?

[94duke]

statute of limitations has passed
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...2_a3&eref=sihp