In Scheyer we trust. Riddle me this...

[Dukevin]

Scheyer has done a brilliant job, no question. ACC title, Elite 8, top ranked recruiting classes in his first 2 years. He's a keeper.

My question is the transfer-out volume at Duke. Why?

It used to be said that recruits should look for the opportunity to compete against the best in practice to enable them to maximize their development..

I have read that Duke is competitive in NIL; no CBB team provides a bigger national platform; NBA development is proven.

What is needed to keep 5 stars around to develop?

[BigZ]

Playing time and money

[AGDukesky]

I feel like the transfer portal is like when you are driving in traffic and you see the next lane moving faster than your lane. The instinct is to shift lanes without looking ahead to see what is in your lane vs the other lane. Often times whatever made the other lane look better will not last and your current lane is the best place to be - even if you have to wait a little bit.

The only thing Scheyer can do is make Duke seem better than the new shiny thing perceived to exist at other schools…

[FosterCoachK82]

Scheyer has done a brilliant job, no question. ACC title, Elite 8, top ranked recruiting classes in his first 2 years. He's a keeper.

My question is the transfer-out volume at Duke. Why?

It used to be said that recruits should look for the opportunity to compete against the best in practice to enable them to maximize their development..

I have read that Duke is competitive in NIL; no CBB team provides a bigger national platform; NBA development is proven.

What is needed to keep 5 stars around to develop?

Our mascot is kinda weak.

[JasonEvans]

What is needed to keep 5 stars around to develop?

For the most part, 5-star players don't want to wait around and develop. They have been hearing they could be OAD for several years and they see other 5-stars having wildly successful seasons. If they don't get a lot of playing time and success at Duke, they cut tail and run for elsewhere.

Over the past few years where transfers have been a huge part of college hoops, can you name a guy who played a significant role for Duke (10+ min/game, especially in meaningful games) who transferred? Ok, ok... Jaemyn Brakefield averaged 12 min/game but you get my drift.

Caleb Foster played a lot a s a freshman... he stuck around.
Michell, Flip, and Proctor played a lot as freshmen... they stuck around.
Mark Williams played a lot as a freshman (espectially after mid-February when he started averaging 20+ min/game)... he stuck around.

The only guys who stuck around without having a big role were Jaden Schutt and Christian Reeves. I applaud them for giving it one more year and totally understand their decision to then move on.

Now, look at the guys who left. Every one of them didn't play much. Yeah, that seems simplistic, but sometimes the obvious answer is the actual answer.

So, next season look at how much time K2 and Evans and Harris and Ngongba get. The guys who play 10+ minutes per game as likely to stick. The ones who don't are likely to leave. It really is pretty simple.

[arnie]

I feel like the transfer portal is like when you are driving in traffic and you see the next lane moving faster than your lane. The instinct is to shift lanes without looking ahead to see what is in your lane vs the other lane. Often times whatever made the other lane look better will not last and your current lane is the best place to be - even if you have to wait a little bit.

The only thing Scheyer can do is make Duke seem better than the new shiny thing perceived to exist at other schools…

Also think we’re seeing no perceived value in the academic side or finishing with a Duke degree. The guys transferring aren’t NBA prospects and will need to do something else after their b-ball time is over.

The term student athlete in men’s college b-ball is frivolous.

[miramar]

Playing time and money

It seems that part of the reason that players won’t accept limited minutes is that they have four and five star fever. They come to Duke as future NBA players, and then some discover that when opponents play tough defense (unlike in summer league) they don’t score much. The contested threes don’t drop and they can’t drive around guys for easy baskets.

So at that point they can A) work as hard as they can, enjoy their Duke experience and learn as much as possible, and take Spanish or French to prepare for an eventual career in Europe, or B) they can look for greener pastures elsewhere. I would say that option B is easier, but with Duke’s track record of preparing players for the NBA, Mizzou or whoever is not going to help them to realize their goals if Duke doesn’t work out the way they wanted.

Besides, having a fun and well-paying job in Madrid, Barcelona, or Paris can be an unbeatable experience for a guy in his twenties.

[gep]

Also think we’re seeing no perceived value in the academic side or finishing with a Duke degree. The guys transferring aren’t NBA prospects and will need to do something else after their b-ball time is over.

The term student athlete in men’s college b-ball is frivolous.

Along with "scholarships"...

[TheTrain]

In a nutshell, it is a combination of several things. Playing time leads the way. We are still running a 7 man rotation in games of substance. If you want to do that….fine….but then you don’t need 12-13 recruited players. Go look at the minutes from the 97-98 season (arguably our deepest team ever), nine players averaged 10+ minutes and nobody averaged more than 30. Honestly, I fully expect half of these new players to leave immediately because they won’t play. But I could write a thesis on this and other reasons. You don’t run a successful business like this and you don’t run a program like this. To me it is embarrassing and a systemic organizational failure. We used to be unique …the shining program on the hill. No more. We are now like everyone else in my opinion. There were two gold standards in college sports …Notre Dame football and Duke basketball…love them or hate them, they were the iconic programs. This is not to say I am against OAD or portal kids, but in my opinion we have lost our programmatic aura. Seven kids walking out the door in a non-COVID year will ultimately tarnish the reputation. It’s a horrible look. And the fact that the program has said nothing and the media is not asking questions is problematic to me as well. Don’t get me wrong…I love my school…but this is a really bad look to me

[bluedevilwildcats]

Our mascot is kinda weak.

Ugh, have to 'spread comments' before I can spork you for this critical insight.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It’s a horrible look. And the fact that the program has said nothing and the media is not asking questions is problematic to me as well. Don’t get me wrong…I love my school…but this is a really bad look to me

I mean, I'd much rather look horrible in late April than in March.

Maybe it's a bit early to hit the panic button.

[fisheyes]

I feel like the transfer portal is like when you are driving in traffic and you see the next lane moving faster than your lane. The instinct is to shift lanes without looking ahead to see what is in your lane vs the other lane. Often times whatever made the other lane look better will not last and your current lane is the best place to be - even if you have to wait a little bit.

The only thing Scheyer can do is make Duke seem better than the new shiny thing perceived to exist at other schools…

This for sure.
This is life now and it's kinda sad, but hey, I'm of social security age and tend to utter comments that can be boiled down to "get off my lawn" a lot these days.
Time will tell if the new NCAA BBall paradigm will help or hurt the sport. I suspect most on this board think it's the latter, but then, you never know,

[MarkD83]

There is another factor that we often forget....parents and advisors

https://sports.yahoo.com/floor-seats...ycsrp_catchall

[azzefkram]

The only guys who stuck around without having a big role were Jaden Schutt and Christian Reeves. I applaud them for giving it one more year and totally understand their decision to then move on.

I'll admit I was a bit puzzled when Jaden transferred. I thought he was on track to graduate in 3 years and just redshirted. One more year and he could leave with a Duke degree and still have 2 years of eligibility.

[Papa John]

Scheyer has done a brilliant job, no question. ACC title, Elite 8, top ranked recruiting classes in his first 2 years. He's a keeper.

My question is the transfer-out volume at Duke. Why?

It used to be said that recruits should look for the opportunity to compete against the best in practice to enable them to maximize their development..

I have read that Duke is competitive in NIL; no CBB team provides a bigger national platform; NBA development is proven.

What is needed to keep 5 stars around to develop?

My $.02 (which won't even get you a cup of proverbial coffeee)... College athletics are very much in flux right now, and players are taking advantage of the fact (while they can) that they now hold a lot more power. With NIL, the transfer portal, immediate eligibility, and the ability to declare for the draft while retaining your eligibility, players are empowered now more than ever before to pursue what they feel is in their best interests (be it playing time assurances, immediate money, tutelage, help building their brand, whatever). The NCAA's inability or refusal to deal with any of these big issues (which were pretty obviously coming toward the horizon for the past decade plus) has rendered them largely powerless/obsolete in this changing environment, and the NBA's hesitation to become more directly involved resulted in the implosion of the D/G league with the advent of NIL and the enhanced mobility of college players. The many entities that have an interest in establishing (a) solution(s) that benefit(s) everyone involved will eventually negotiate something new that will replace the systems previously in place, but that's going to take awhile. In the meantime, off seasons (for the two main revenue sports in particular) are going to be insanely active periods for most programs (and terribly unnerving for their fans), and Duke is no exception. Personally, I think this is a good thing, as the power balance has shifted in favor of the athletes who previously wielded very little power within a system (or perhaps, more accurately, a network of systems) that exploited their talents to generate billions of dollars for the benefit/enrichment of others.

[roywhite]

For the most part, 5-star players don't want to wait around and develop. They have been hearing they could be OAD for several years and they see other 5-stars having wildly successful seasons. If they don't get a lot of playing time and success at Duke, they cut tail and run for elsewhere.

Over the past few years where transfers have been a huge part of college hoops, can you name a guy who played a significant role for Duke (10+ min/game, especially in meaningful games) who transferred? Ok, ok... Jaemyn Brakefield averaged 12 min/game but you get my drift.

Caleb Foster played a lot a s a freshman... he stuck around.
Michell, Flip, and Proctor played a lot as freshmen... they stuck around.
Mark Williams played a lot as a freshman (espectially after mid-February when he started averaging 20+ min/game)... he stuck around.

The only guys who stuck around without having a big role were Jaden Schutt and Christian Reeves. I applaud them for giving it one more year and totally understand their decision to then move on.

Now, look at the guys who left. Every one of them didn't play much. Yeah, that seems simplistic, but sometimes the obvious answer is the actual answer.

So, next season look at how much time K2 and Evans and Harris and Ngongba get. The guys who play 10+ minutes per game as likely to stick. The ones who don't are likely to leave. It really is pretty simple.

I get your overall point, but I'm not clear how you categorize Mark Mitchell?

Yeah, he came back for his sophomore year after playing and starting as a freshman, but he then left after being a 2-year starter and important player.

[miramar]

There is another factor that we often forget...parents and advisors

https://sports.yahoo.com/floor-seats...ycsrp_catchall

I really enjoyed this article. I guess that at Duke we can call it the Burgess Factor, and those of us of a certain age remember how that worked out. I suppose that the equivalent of a Stage Mother is a Playing Time Father.

[JayZee]

For the most part, 5-star players don't want to wait around and develop. They have been hearing they could be OAD for several years and they see other 5-stars having wildly successful seasons. If they don't get a lot of playing time and success at Duke, they cut tail and run for elsewhere.

Over the past few years where transfers have been a huge part of college hoops, can you name a guy who played a significant role for Duke (10+ min/game, especially in meaningful games) who transferred? Ok, ok... Jaemyn Brakefield averaged 12 min/game but you get my drift.

Caleb Foster played a lot a s a freshman... he stuck around.
Michell, Flip, and Proctor played a lot as freshmen... they stuck around.
Mark Williams played a lot as a freshman (espectially after mid-February when he started averaging 20+ min/game)... he stuck around.

The only guys who stuck around without having a big role were Jaden Schutt and Christian Reeves. I applaud them for giving it one more year and totally understand their decision to then move on.

Now, look at the guys who left. Every one of them didn't play much. Yeah, that seems simplistic, but sometimes the obvious answer is the actual answer.

So, next season look at how much time K2 and Evans and Harris and Ngongba get. The guys who play 10+ minutes per game as likely to stick. The ones who don't are likely to leave. It really is pretty simple.

Sean's journey will be interesting. He's probably the highest rated player, with the most obvious pro potential, to transfer out. But he clearly needs development. I'd argue that transferring, even if he gets more playing time, very well might slow down his development. He has to make new connections, connect with new coaches, figure out new facilities. The change has material transaction costs. Now, I want nothing but the best for him. Hope he does great. But there are reasons he didn't play more. Not sure those reasons disappear just with a transfer...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I really enjoyed this article. I guess that at Duke we can call it the Burgess Factor, and those of us of a certain age remember how that worked out. I suppose that the equivalent of a Stage Mother is a Playing Time Father.

I heard him give an interview like this...I find it so interesting that Hurley said he pays attention to the parents.. and he's off to a pretty decent start I'd say.

[arnie]

There is another factor that we often forget...parents and advisors

https://sports.yahoo.com/floor-seats...ycsrp_catchall

Sensational article: a must read and really appreciate Blakeney’s perspective.