Will Duke Retire Another Jersey Again?

SamHouston said:
Retire Spanarkel during 1978 teams fiftieth anniversary year.
Click to expand...
If anyone deserves to have his number retired that doesn't meet the POY requirement, it's Spanarkel. If anyone else goes before him, it's wrong - others have arguments as well, but Spanarkel should be first in. Without him, it's a question if guys like Gminski, Banks and Dennard sign. Without them, Foster doesn't get to the national championship in '78. If that doesn't happen, maybe Duke stays in the doldrums for who knows how long. Spanarkel was tough as nails and the clear leader of Forever's Team. He also played in the NBA until an injury derailed him. And now he's one of the best color guys doing college basketball - he always brings energy and keeps the conversation about what's happening on the court. He and Ian Eagle were IMO the best pair before Eagle got moved to the #1 slot.

9F
 
RingTheBell13 said:
Boozer Naismith got me thinking if this ever happens again. I feel very strongly that we keep the requirement of graduating, and I suspect a lot of folks feel the same. Also think a one-and-done isn’t appropriate for retirement at all, unless maybe it comes with a national championship (and even then, I’m torn). But in the current era, feels like a Naismith + diploma is never going to happen again, or if it does, will be a one-and-done where the diploma is received years down the road.

So what do people think in terms of (A) will it happen again, (B) if it does, will it be someone that doesn’t have a diploma, and (C) if it does, will it be a one-and-done?
Click to expand...
A) Yes. Anyone that says No is predicting the future. And the future is a long time...
B) I would rather not. But if someday college basketball makes players employees instead of students, then things need to be rethought depending on those requirements.
C) It could be if that guy gets his diploma from Duke per the current requirements.

9F
 
Loved Singler and Smith and Scheyer as players. And I loved that 2010 team. But they really don't have the individual resumes of the guys in the rafters. If anything, there's one too many in the rafters currently (Mullins). The rest of the guys in the rafters have the national player awards and/or finished with Duke (or even NCAA) records.

Guys like Banks, Spanarkel, Alarie, Scheyer, Singler, Smith, and Allen were all GREAT Duke players. But I think it speaks to the greatness of those honored that these Duke greats aren't quite worthy of jersey retirement.
 
CDu said:
Loved Singler and Smith and Scheyer as players. And I loved that 2010 team. But they really don't have the individual resumes of the guys in the rafters. If anything, there's one too many in the rafters currently (Mullins). The rest of the guys in the rafters have the national player awards and/or finished with Duke (or even NCAA) records.

Guys like Banks, Spanarkel, Alarie, Scheyer, Singler, Smith, and Allen were all GREAT Duke players. But I think it speaks to the greatness of those honored that these Duke greats aren't quite worthy of jersey retirement.
Click to expand...
You make a good point.

Still, I've been on the Spanarkel bandwagon for decades. So regarding Duke records, I'll point out that Spanarkel was the first Duke player to finish his career with over 2000 points, which was a Duke record at the time (with no 3 pointer back then). Perhaps like the Roger Bannister 4-minute mile for Duke. Gminski passed him the next season, but Spanarkel was first. And would G-man have done that if Spanarkel had not been there spreading the court for him for 3 years?

9F
 
kako said:
You make a good point.

Still, I've been on the Spanarkel bandwagon for decades. So regarding Duke records, I'll point out that Spanarkel was the first Duke player to finish his career with over 2000 points, which was a Duke record at the time (with no 3 pointer back then). Perhaps like the Roger Bannister 4-minute mile for Duke. Gminski passed him the next season, but Spanarkel was first. And would G-man have done that if Spanarkel had not been there spreading the court for him for 3 years?

9F
Click to expand...
When did the NCAA allow frosh on varsity teams?

-jk
 
kako said:
You make a good point.

Still, I've been on the Spanarkel bandwagon for decades. So regarding Duke records, I'll point out that Spanarkel was the first Duke player to finish his career with over 2000 points, which was a Duke record at the time (with no 3 pointer back then). Perhaps like the Roger Bannister 4-minute mile for Duke. Gminski passed him the next season, but Spanarkel was first. And would G-man have done that if Spanarkel had not been there spreading the court for him for 3 years?

9F
Click to expand...

Spanarkel wouldn't have been the first to 2000 had freshmen been allowed to play back in the 50s and 60s. Groat, Mullins, Heyman, Verga... all would have been well clear of Spanarkel had they been allowed to play all 4 years. Spanarkel's resume was done in perhaps by playing so close in proximity to Gminski, whose stats kind of dwarfed his own.

But, realistically, Spanarkel doesn't quite deserve it either. Like Mullins, he never was even a 1st team All-American. Frankly, I'm of the belief that Mullins probably shouldn't be up there, while Verga has the next best case for being honored.
 
CDu said:
Spanarkel wouldn't have been the first to 2000 had freshmen been allowed to play back in the 50s and 60s. Groat, Mullins, Heyman, Verga... all would have been well clear of Spanarkel had they been allowed to play all 4 years. Spanarkel's resume was done in perhaps by playing so close in proximity to Gminski, whose stats kind of dwarfed his own.

But, realistically, Spanarkel doesn't quite deserve it either. Like Mullins, he never was even a 1st team All-American. Frankly, I'm of the belief that Mullins probably shouldn't be up there, while Verga has the next best case for being honored.
Click to expand...
-jk said:
When did the NCAA allow frosh on varsity teams?

-jk
Click to expand...
Different eras have different rules. It's not Spanarkel's fault that freshmen couldn't play varsity earlier (started '72-73). But the number is the number, and he had the highest number of anyone when he graduated. One can dismiss it, but I don't.

No, he wasn't 1st team AA or POY. I pointed out that if the rules were changed, I'd push for him to be first in line. Because he was someone who made a huge difference in the direction of Duke basketball that lead the school into the modern era.

9F
 
I feel similarly as to how I feel about pro sports Halls of Fame. It's for the GREAT, not the very good. (or it should be IMO) We can't, and shouldn't, honor FOREVER and permanently in this most elevated way, players who weren't truly elite for their time, and that's why the criteria of either being an All-American or a significant Duke record holder seem to make sense. Nolan Smith and Mark Alarie and Jim Spanarkel were all really, really good players and important pieces of Duke history. But they're not quite Hall of Famers, not at a place with the history that Duke has.

And for sure, things like NBA success, being a good announcer, or a good coach should have nothing to do with these decisions. This is an individual recognition of elite and sustained and exceptional performance on the basketball court while at Duke.
 
tommy said:
I feel similarly as to how I feel about pro sports Halls of Fame. It's for the GREAT, not the very good. (or it should be IMO) We can't, and shouldn't, honor FOREVER and permanently in this most elevated way, players who weren't truly elite for their time, and that's why the criteria of either being an All-American or a significant Duke record holder seem to make sense. Nolan Smith and Mark Alarie and Jim Spanarkel were all really, really good players and important pieces of Duke history. But they're not quite Hall of Famers, not at a place with the history that Duke has.

And for sure, things like NBA success, being a good announcer, or a good coach should have nothing to do with these decisions. This is an individual recognition of elite and sustained and exceptional performance on the basketball court while at Duke.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If anything, we have one or two too many jerseys retired, not too few.

All of those other guys are honored in the Hall of Honor, but not with jerseys retired. As it should be, in my opinion.
 
CDu said:
Loved Singler and Smith and Scheyer as players. And I loved that 2010 team. But they really don't have the individual resumes of the guys in the rafters. If anything, there's one too many in the rafters currently (Mullins). The rest of the guys in the rafters have the national player awards and/or finished with Duke (or even NCAA) records.

Guys like Banks, Spanarkel, Alarie, Scheyer, Singler, Smith, and Allen were all GREAT Duke players. But I think it speaks to the greatness of those honored that these Duke greats aren't quite worthy of jersey retirement.
Click to expand...
Jon is in the top ten of every statistical category, right? And he has two ACC championships and a national championship as a player. I just don't see how that's not worthy of having his name in the rafters.
 
MarkD83 said:
That’s one step away from what unc does….so no thanks.
Click to expand...
Respectfully, it’s many steps away from what UNC does. As far as I can tell, there’s 51 jerseys staying in the Smith center rafters: 8 retired, and the rest honored. Even if we added our Naismith winners to our retired jerseys, we would only be be adding 4 more for a total of 17.
 
throatybeard said:
The craziest thing about Verga not being retired--and Mark Alarie for that matter--is that you wouldn't even lose a number. You could do them dually. There's no opportunity cost.

Alarie is one of these people who people have completely forgotten how good they were.

I also don't understand why Shelden Williams was good enough but Spanarkel, Banks, Boozer, and Dunleavy were not.
Click to expand...
Williams in no way should have had his jersey retired. Only y thing he did was block a few shots. Other Duke players more deserving.
 
bleediteveryday83 said:
Jon is in the top ten of every statistical category, right? And he has two ACC championships and a national championship as a player. I just don't see how that's not worthy of having his name in the rafters.
Click to expand...

Scheyer is 10th 10 in scoring, 8th in steals. Not top-10 in rebounds, assists (and that is despite assists not being officially tracked until the 80s), or blocks. So, no, not remotely close to top-10 in every category. Lots of Duke guys have 2 ACC titles and a national title.

Great Duke player. Not quite worthy of jersey retirement.
 
Rougeskin said:
Williams in no way should have had his jersey retired. Only y thing he did was block a few shots. Other Duke players more deserving.
Click to expand...

Yeah, let’s disparage a guy who was a 1st team All-American, 2-time NDPoY, and still holds the Duke records for career rebounds and blocks. Sheesh!

Williams is probably 12th rated out of the 13 guys in the rafters. But none of the guys not honored have that kind of individual career resume.
 
trinity92 said:
Respectfully, it’s many steps away from what UNC does. As far as I can tell, there’s 51 jerseys staying in the Smith center rafters: 8 retired, and the rest honored. Even if we added our Naismith winners to our retired jerseys, we would only be be adding 4 more for a total of 17.
Click to expand...
You are right. I had visions of the dean dome and wouldn’t want that.

I have not been to Cameron in a while but doesn’t the museum adjacent to the court honor all of the players of the year and other honorees.

Also not related to your comment. I believe Spanarkel is already in the Duke sports hall of fame.
 
CDu said:
Scheyer is 10th 10 in scoring, 8th in steals. Not top-10 in rebounds, assists (and that is despite assists not being officially tracked until the 80s), or blocks. So, no, not remotely close to top-10 in every category. Lots of Duke guys have 2 ACC titles and a national title.

Great Duke player. Not quite worthy of jersey retirement.
Click to expand...
Okay.
 
MarkD83 said:
I have not been to Cameron in a while but doesn’t the museum adjacent to the court honor all of the players of the year and other honorees.
Click to expand...
Yes. The Hall of Honor also has specific requirements including NPOYs who don't graduate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top