Tony Bennett retires

[NYBri]

Not sure continuing this thread is going to reveal anything that hasn't been said. He's now gone and not coming back. Next play.

 

[RoseBowl1942]

how arrogant for anyone on the outside to assume they're being treated poorly. How in the world is a change of boss necessarily being treated poorly?

I’m with Phredd3 on this, and I’m done debating the point. In my opinion (shared with other folks like Phredd3), it is extremely bad form to do what he did. If you don’t agree, that’s your right. But I manage a team of 10 folks in the real world and feel a level of responsibility and loyalty to them. I would personally be ashamed if I deliberately acted in a way that screwed them over at all. Treating the folks you manage with dignity and respect is a core tenet for me. And that’s whether you pay them or not.

My opinion (and again, shared by others) is that you owe it to them to give it your all for another 6 months as you promised and play out the season.

Feel free to disagree, but like Phredd3, I’m done on this point

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm with Austin on this. Coaches say stuff all the time. What they say is often not what they really mean, and/or doesn't reflect what is really going on in the program.

I see no obvious reason to believe Bennett any more than I believe any other coach. Contrary to popular belief, good-looking people are not inherently good people.

No one is arguing that good-looking people are necessarily good people.

It seems the two groups we see on display in this thread are:

1) Tony Bennett seems a good guy - never a whiff of scandal either within his program or not. Why would I not take him at his word? I have no reason to distrust him.

2) This doesn't make and sense. Clearly someone is lying. We may never learn the trust, but Tony Bennett hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt and more than some other stranger.

I'm fine with this being the case, and I don't mind being in group one. I do tend to trust my fellow humans, at least until they give me reason to do otherwise.

Beyond the "is this the real story," it seems like it's just a bummer to lose such a coaching mind in our conference. But that's just my perspective.

I think ACC basketball is in danger of speeding towards national irrelevance.

 

[brevity]

Not sure continuing this thread is going to reveal anything that hasn't been said. He's now gone and not coming back. Next play.

There are a few things to talk about here that don't try to delve into Bennett's mind or rate him against everyone's individual book of workplace ethics.

1. Do any UVA players try to transfer? Keep an eye on the Verbal Commits Transfer page. There are only/already 2 names there. Tommy Kelly transferred to Mercyhurst over the summer from a Division III school, and entered the portal again September 30. On the next day, October 1, Chuks Isitua transferred out of Fresno State; not sure of his story, but he played 5 games for the Bulldogs in 2022-2023 and not at all last season.

2. Is interim coach Ron Sanchez auditioning for the permanent job, or will the higher ups pursue someone else next offseason? Early speculation on the UVA boards were about a pair of coaches with in-state experience (Marquette's Shaka Smart, who once got VCU to the Final Four, and Vanderbilt's Mark Byington, who was at James Madison last season) and the one assistant who will be mentioned with every big job opening, UConn's Luke Murray. A lot of suggestions, but those three are the headliners.

3. How will the team do this season without Bennett? In October 1997, Dean Smith gifted Bill Guthridge a team with juniors Antawn Jamison and Vince Carter, senior Shammond Williams, sophomore Ed Cota, and freshman Brendan Haywood. Jamison won national awards for Player of the Year, and Guthridge coached them to the Final Four. Bennett is not leaving Sanchez with anything close to that, even if all of Jeff Goodman's wildest dreams about TJ Power come true.

 

[AustinDevil]

No one is arguing that good-looking people are necessarily good people.

It seems the two groups we see on display in this thread are:

1) Tony Bennett seems a good guy - never a whiff of scandal either within his program or not. Why would I not take him at his word? I have no reason to distrust him.

2) This doesn't make and sense. Clearly someone is lying. We may never learn the trust, but Tony Bennett hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt and more than some other stranger.

I'm fine with this being the case, and I don't mind being in group one. I do tend to trust my fellow humans, at least until they give me reason to do otherwise.

Beyond the "is this the real story," it seems like it's just a bummer to lose such a coaching mind in our conference. But that's just my perspective.

I think ACC basketball is in danger of speeding towards national irrelevance.

It is a bummer and it is bad for the ACC, and he's a good guy with never a whiff of scandal about his program. So count me fully "Category 1" in your summation of What Everyone Here Thinks.

But ...

Even taking him at his word, and without believing there is anyone lying here, "I don't feel like doing this anymore, bye" is enormously disappointing as his reason for quitting two weeks before the season. And I think that's what the vast majority of the negativity about TB on here is about--meaning that your summarysplaining of "Category 2" is woefully off base.

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It is a bummer and it is bad for the ACC, and he's a good guy with never a whiff of scandal about his program. So count me fully "Category 1" in your summation of What Everyone Here Thinks.

But ...

Even taking him at his word, and without believing there is anyone lying here, "I don't feel like doing this anymore, bye" is enormously disappointing as his reason for quitting two weeks before the season. And I think that's what the vast majority of the negativity about TB on here is about--meaning that your summarysplaining of "Category 2" is woefully off base.

Well, it was a gross oversimplification. I was aort of hoping someone would feel welcome to explain better the perspective of the second group.

I am definitely in the "disappointed" crowd as well. The amount of coaching talent in the ACC has dropped dramatically while also be severely watered down.

 

[Indoor66]

I'm sorry, but I hate this line of thinking. Getting paid doesn't give you an excuse to completely forget about decency. When did Americans come to think that payment means you can act like a jerk? You have to learn to deal because it is part of life, not because you're getting paid. I'd also like to think that we don't have to just chuck the education part of college athletics at the door because sports are a business. These are still young people that can use occasional guidance. Be a good boss, and be a good employee. It's no defense to say, "Well, you're getting paid."

Sorry, not ranting at HBCK specifically, I just don't like this train of thought. Now get off my lawn!

If they don't get off, give 'em a lawnmower.

 

[rsvman]

There are a few things to talk about here that don't try to delve into Bennett's mind or rate him against everyone's individual book of workplace ethics.

1. Do any UVA players try to transfer? Keep an eye on the Verbal Commits Transfer page. There are only/already 2 names there. Tommy Kelly transferred to Mercyhurst over the summer from a Division III school, and entered the portal again September 30. On the next day, October 1, Chuks Isitua transferred out of Fresno State; not sure of his story, but he played 5 games for the Bulldogs in 2022-2023 and not at all last season.

2. Is interim coach Ron Sanchez auditioning for the permanent job, or will the higher ups pursue someone else next offseason? Early speculation on the UVA boards were about a pair of coaches with in-state experience (Marquette's Shaka Smart, who once got VCU to the Final Four, and Vanderbilt's Mark Byington, who was at James Madison last season) and the one assistant who will be mentioned with every big job opening, UConn's Luke Murray. A lot of suggestions, but those three are the headliners.

3. How will the team do this season without Bennett? In October 1997, Dean Smith gifted Bill Guthridge a team with juniors Antawn Jamison and Vince Carter, senior Shammond Williams, sophomore Ed Cota, and freshman Brendan Haywood. Jamison won national awards for Player of the Year, and Guthridge coached them to the Final Four. Bennett is not leaving Sanchez with anything close to that, even if all of Jeff Goodman's wildest dreams about TJ Power come true.

That 1997 Tarheel team, if memory serves, had its share of trouble in the regular season. I seem to remember the saying that if the name on the jersey hadn't been uNC, they might not have even gathered a bid. Nine losses, maybe? Can't remember for sure, and don't want to look it up. But my memory is that that particular team overachieved once it reached the tournament, and that during the regular season a lot of people were calling Guthridge a bust.

Correct me if my memory is wrong.

 

[LasVegas]

No one is arguing that good-looking people are necessarily good people.

It seems the two groups we see on display in this thread are:

1) Tony Bennett seems a good guy - never a whiff of scandal either within his program or not. Why would I not take him at his word? I have no reason to distrust him.

2) This doesn't make and sense. Clearly someone is lying. We may never learn the trust, but Tony Bennett hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt and more than some other stranger.

I'm fine with this being the case, and I don't mind being in group one. I do tend to trust my fellow humans, at least until they give me reason to do otherwise.

Beyond the "is this the real story," it seems like it's just a bummer to lose such a coaching mind in our conference. But that's just my perspective.

I think ACC basketball is in danger of speeding towards national irrelevance.

You are missing an entire group that is a subset of 1.

1B) Tony Bennett seems a good guy - never a whiff of scandal either within his program or not. Why would I not take him at his word? I have no reason to distrust him. BUT what he did was a bad move and he should have been able to tough it out for 6 more months because he owed it to his team.

 

[Phredd3]

If they don't get off, give 'em a lawnmower.

OK, but I ain't payin' 'em!

 

[brevity]

3. How will the team do this season without Bennett? In October 1997, Dean Smith gifted Bill Guthridge a team with juniors Antawn Jamison and Vince Carter, senior Shammond Williams, sophomore Ed Cota, and freshman Brendan Haywood. Jamison won national awards for Player of the Year, and Guthridge coached them to the Final Four. Bennett is not leaving Sanchez with anything close to that, even if all of Jeff Goodman's wildest dreams about TJ Power come true.

That 1997 Tarheel team, if memory serves, had its share of trouble in the regular season. I seem to remember the saying that if the name on the jersey hadn't been uNC, they might not have even gathered a bid. Nine losses, maybe? Can't remember for sure, and don't want to look it up. But my memory is that that particular team overachieved once it reached the tournament, and that during the regular season a lot of people were calling Guthridge a bust.

Correct me if my memory is wrong.

You're probably thinking of Guthridge's 1999-2000 UNC team (Cota-Forte-Capel-Lang-Haywood), which went 22-14 but still made it to the Final Four as an 8 seed.

The 1997-1998 team went 34-4 and was a 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament. If that team had its share of trouble, it didn't seem to affect their win-loss record. They had one bad loss at home to NC State, plus close losses at Maryland and at Duke, and the Final Four loss to Utah.

 

[rsvman]

You're probably thinking of Guthridge's 1999-2000 UNC team (Cota-Forte-Capel-Lang-Haywood), which went 22-14 but still made it to the Final Four as an 8 seed.

The 1997-1998 team went 34-4 and was a 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament. If that team had its share of trouble, it didn't seem to affect their win-loss record. They had one bad loss at home to NC State, plus close losses at Maryland and at Duke, and the Final Four loss to Utah.

Yep.u are absolutely correct. Thanks for fixing my mistake. 14 losses is quite a few; generally it's hard to get an invite when you have 14 losses.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

You are missing an entire group that is a subset of 1.

1B) Tony Bennett seems a good guy - never a whiff of scandal either within his program or not. Why would I not take him at his word? I have no reason to distrust him. BUT what he did was a bad move and he should have been able to tough it out for 6 more months because he owed it to his team.

Yeah, the timing of him stepping down is what's hard to reconcile with his explanation of the changing landscape. I don't recall that landscape getting significantly worse over the past few weeks versus back in June when he signed his extension, when stepping down would have been so much less disruptive.

 

[dlmzzz]

Yeah, the timing of him stepping down is what's hard to reconcile with his explanation of the changing landscape. I don't recall that landscape getting significantly worse over the past few weeks versus back in June when he signed his extension, when stepping down would have been so much less disruptive.

This. I was trying to move from baseless speculation about Tony Bennett's state of mind to baseless speculation about UVA's team this year, but they are intertwined. One big thing that is different from 3 weeks ago is that he knows a lot more about UVA's team now that official practices have started.

 

[Matches]

Yep.u are absolutely correct. Thanks for fixing my mistake. 14 losses is quite a few; generally it's hard to get an invite when you have 14 losses.

I’m still salty about them getting in over (wait for it) UVa, which had an identical in-conference record and beat the Smurfs twice.

 

[Papa John]

Curious how you’d square that position with K’s oft-repeated statements over the years about the trust placed in him by players’ families.

Maybe the answer would just be that the game has changed. And obviously it has. Has it changed so much that K’s statements are obsolete?

Of course, K also recently said that if he was 57 and coaching right now in the current environment and the Lakers came knocking, he would take the offer: "I still love Duke. College basketball is terrific -- the product. All the stuff you have to do for it, it's not as gratifying as it was 20 years ago. At least for me." That's pretty much what I was hearing Bennett saying, both directly and indirectly, in his press conference.

 

[mph]

I’m with Phredd3 on this, and I’m done debating the point. In my opinion (shared with other folks like Phredd3), it is extremely bad form to do what he did. If you don’t agree, that’s your right. But I manage a team of 10 folks in the real world and feel a level of responsibility and loyalty to them. I would personally be ashamed if I deliberately acted in a way that screwed them over at all. Treating the folks you manage with dignity and respect is a core tenet for me. And that’s whether you pay them or not.

My opinion (and again, shared by others) is that you owe it to them to give it your all for another 6 months as you promised and play out the season.

Feel free to disagree, but like Phredd3, I’m done on this point

There are multiple posters on both sides of this argument and I’m sure their opinion is also informed by their experience in the “real world.”

I’ve coached college students for 30 years, with the last 17 as a head coach supervising a team of 25 and a staff of 6. Over the last 5 years I lost 2 coaches in our preseason, one two weeks before our opening tournament. While it was hard on the team and the rest of the staff, we understood and still respect and have close relationships with both of them. I don’t think less of their character.

So, your opinion, while valid, isn’t more legitimate because it’s informed by some unique experience or shared by other people.

 

[RoseBowl1942]

There are multiple posters on both sides of this argument and I’m sure their opinion is also informed by their experience in the “real world.”

I’ve coached college students for 30 years, with the last 17 as a head coach supervising a team of 25 and a staff of 6. Over the last 5 years I lost 2 coaches in our preseason, one two weeks before our opening tournament. While it was hard on the team and the rest of the staff, we understood and still respect and have close relationships with both of them. I don’t think less of their character.

So, your opinion, while valid, isn’t more legitimate because it’s informed by some unique experience or shared by other people.

Sorry, when did anyone say one opinion was more legitimate? I think multiple people have said “feel free to disagree” or something to the effect (know I did)

We really should shut down this thread. This is becoming insane

 

[willowglen]

Yeah, the timing of him stepping down is what's hard to reconcile with his explanation of the changing landscape. I don't recall that landscape getting significantly worse over the past few weeks versus back in June when he signed his extension, when stepping down would have been so much less disruptive.

My guess is that UVa’s stances towards NIL and paying/recruiting players changed or at least lacked energy. Bennett isn’t going to spill something like that because he cares about the school and the interim coach and players. Bennett was without question one of the best coaches of the last 15 years. He developed players - a skill not nearly helpful now. I could easily see him concluding this game is no longer for him.

 

[bluedevilwildcats]

My guess is that UVa’s stances towards NIL and paying/recruiting players changed or at least lacked energy. Bennett isn’t going to spill something like that because he cares about the school and the interim coach and players. Bennett was without question one of the best coaches of the last 15 years. He developed players - a skill not nearly helpful now. I could easily see him concluding this game is no longer for him.

Yeah, his system was probably more impacted by these changes than nearly anyone else's. During his press conference, the comment that stood out for me was along the lines of "To stay relevant I would need to change my entire approach, and I simply don't want to."

Who knows, maybe the adjustments that will inevitably happen over the next 5 years will cause him to rethink his decision and start fresh somewhere else.