Teslas and other electric vehicles

[mkirsh]

Earlier in the week the rental counter gave me an EV (Hyundai Ioniq 5) because the car I reserved was unavailable and other option was a pickup. Since I was only doing around 200 miles I thought it would be fine but knowing I might have a problem. The car itself was great. Extremely quick, good handling and all the bells & whistles (lane keep, adaptive cruise, etc...) The only problem was find a place to charge at 2 am before I had to return it. EV stations don't advertise with signs along the road like regular gas station. I downloaded and tried both the ChargePoint app and Electrify American but they are the easiest to navigate and lacked options. Eventually found a place using the car nav and EA app - in a massive parking lot in an industrial park neat an IKEA near EWR. Sketchy as Hades but half the chargers were in use. The charging was fine but on the expensive side. Car was at 39%, had to be above 70% on return. It took about 18 minutes to get to 80% and cost $20.55. I calculated that covered ~125 miles. An ICE car, even with NJ prices, would have been $13-14. The vehicle is only part of the equation with EVs. The infrastructure really has to improve. Yes it would have been easier with a Tesla because several locations I tried had them but I'm not buying one of those.

EA is expensive, especially for non-members. Seems like you must have paid ~$0.48 per kWh. Most other charging options would be ~30-50% lower (~$0.25-$0.33 per kWh), and charging at home would be ~50-70% lower (~$0.15-$0.25 per kWh). This article has an interesting cost comparison:

How Much Does It Cost to Charge an Electric Car?

What is the cost to charge an electric car? Learn how much it costs to charge a Tesla, Rivian, or other EV at home or on the go!

www.findmyelectric.com

 

[budwom]

How in the heck do you even get internet out in the sticks?

cell phones on really long sticks we hold over our heads. Or Comcast internet...

 

[budwom]

Earlier in the week the rental counter gave me an EV (Hyundai Ioniq 5) because the car I reserved was unavailable and other option was a pickup. Since I was only doing around 200 miles I thought it would be fine but knowing I might have a problem. The car itself was great. Extremely quick, good handling and all the bells & whistles (lane keep, adaptive cruise, etc...) The only problem was find a place to charge at 2 am before I had to return it. EV stations don't advertise with signs along the road like regular gas station. I downloaded and tried both the ChargePoint app and Electrify American but they are the easiest to navigate and lacked options. Eventually found a place using the car nav and EA app - in a massive parking lot in an industrial park neat an IKEA near EWR. Sketchy as Hades but half the chargers were in use. The charging was fine but on the expensive side. Car was at 39%, had to be above 70% on return. It took about 18 minutes to get to 80% and cost $20.55. I calculated that covered ~125 miles. An ICE car, even with NJ prices, would have been $13-14. The vehicle is only part of the equation with EVs. The infrastructure really has to improve. Yes it would have been easier with a Tesla because several locations I tried had them but I'm not buying one of those.

This is one of the reasons why Hertz lost their shirts betting on a fleet of Teslas....famously bad move...not appealing to folks renting for a day or two hunting down chargers...

 

[cato]

Yes, this is a thing. Sad that people don't realize that they don't need 690 miles of range. Yes, range matters when traveling but daily it's rarely an issue. As charge times go down this will be less of an issue and socializing that it's OK to add some time to your commute is worth the tradeoffs will help. I personally think the ICE engine to charge the EV is just barely this side of silly but misinformation has people scared.

Note, if you travel often and long distances and/or tow often, range is a huge issue. In fact if that's your use case, an EV might not be your thing or the extra charging ICE might be a good thing....

I live in SoCal and an EV is perfect for everything within the LA/OC/SD/IE sphere.

Go beyond that, particularly the Sierra in the winter or the vast deserts in the summer, and current EV’s are not adequate (IMO). Hence, we are keeping one ICE and hoping it lasts several more years while things develop.

 

[elvis14]

This is one of the reasons why Hertz lost their shirts betting on a fleet of Teslas....famously bad move...not appealing to folks renting for a day or two hunting down chargers...

Hertz missed on two things:
1) EV's are different than ICE and if people haven't used them before there's a learning curve (not good for rental)
2) Hertz makes a lot of their $$ on resale - they underestimated the depreciation of their cars and overestimated demand (people don't want to buy a new technology from a rental place - even when it's not new anymore).

 

[cato]

EA is expensive, especially for non-members. Seems like you must have paid ~$0.48 per kWh. Most other charging options would be ~30-50% lower (~$0.25-$0.33 per kWh), and charging at home would be ~50-70% lower (~$0.15-$0.25 per kWh). This article has an interesting cost comparison:

How Much Does It Cost to Charge an Electric Car?

What is the cost to charge an electric car? Learn how much it costs to charge a Tesla, Rivian, or other EV at home or on the go!

www.findmyelectric.com

During the recent heatwave in my area, my SDGE charging at work went from $0.13-0.19/kWh to $1.00-1.10/kWh.

 

[Kdogg]

EA is expensive, especially for non-members. Seems like you must have paid ~$0.48 per kWh. Most other charging options would be ~30-50% lower (~$0.25-$0.33 per kWh), and charging at home would be ~50-70% lower (~$0.15-$0.25 per kWh). This article has an interesting cost comparison:

How Much Does It Cost to Charge an Electric Car?

What is the cost to charge an electric car? Learn how much it costs to charge a Tesla, Rivian, or other EV at home or on the go!

www.findmyelectric.com

I think it was $.54. I did know EV was the priciest charger but I figured it was still cheaper than what the rental company would have charged for returning it at 39%. I knew I always had that option so I wasn’t too worried. I knew going in that there might be a problem so I wasn’t caught off guard. I doubt that many other people would go knowing the concerns. I was going to the Wells Fargo Center. The car’s nav said the closest charger was at the nearby casino. It was there a free ChargePoint station. One side was broken and the other side was plugged into a BMW but done. I tried that and the time to a complete charge was 6.5 hours. I noped out of there.

 

[budwom]

Hertz missed on two things:
1) EV's are different than ICE and if people haven't used them before there's a learning curve (not good for rental)
2) Hertz makes a lot of their $$ on resale - they underestimated the depreciation of their cars and overestimated demand (people don't want to buy a new technology from a rental place - even when it's not new anymore).

Yes, they missed on those things (they got killed when Elon lowered the price on Teslas which hurt the value of their cars ) but also more...
Because people are not used to driving them, they had a MUCH higher incidence of accidents, and the cost of repairs was significantly higher than they had anticipated...and the charger issue is something many people don't want to deal with.
We're flying to RDU Saturday for the football game, and we don't want to be hunting around for charging stations very late Saturday or very early Sunday. Unnecessary pain in the butt.
This is what happens when Morgan Stanley and GS guys convince themselves they're so much smarter than conventional rental car execs...Business Week had a great piece on this...

 

[elvis14]

Yes, they missed on those things (they got killed when Elon lowered the price on Teslas which hurt the value of their cars ) but also more...
Because people are not used to driving them, they had a MUCH higher incidence of accidents, and the cost of repairs was significantly higher than they had anticipated...and the charger issue is something many people don't want to deal with.
We're flying to RDU Saturday for the football game, and we don't want to be hunting around for charging stations very late Saturday or very early Sunday. Unnecessary pain in the butt.
This is what happens when Morgan Stanley and GS guys convince themselves they're so much smarter than conventional rental car execs...Business Week had a great piece on this...

Very well said. Owning an EV is one thing - you choose to work through the learning curve, etc. Renting one and trying to climb most of that curve in 15 minutes - disaster, as you've pointed out.

Hope you all have a great time at the game.

 

[budwom]

Very well said. Owning an EV is one thing - you choose to work through the learning curve, etc. Renting one and trying to climb most of that curve in 15 minutes - disaster, as you've pointed out.

Hope you all have a great time at the game.

thanks, hope we do! Just to be clear, I'm very big on the future of EVs, but in a lot of places they don't quite make sense yet. Soon they will. Prices need to come down, and that is definitely going to happen.

 

[duke79]

Very well said. Owning an EV is one thing - you choose to work through the learning curve, etc. Renting one and trying to climb most of that curve in 15 minutes - disaster, as you've pointed out.

Hope you all have a great time at the game.

We bought an all-electric car (Hyundai Ionic 5) in January of this year and have now owned it for about 8 months. Admittedly, it's my wife's car and she has driven it about 95% of the time but I still don't know how to operate about 98% of the features in the car. It is ridiculously complicated. It truly scares me every time I drive it somewhere. I've left it going a few times when I got home, because there is no "noise" if you leave the car running or turn it off. I mean, the owner's manual is 680 pages long (with very small font) and almost impossible to understand - the section on how to lock and unlock the car doors is 28 pages long. I've watched some YouTube videos to try to learn some of the basics but I quickly forget what I've watched. We have friends in their 70's who leased a Tesla and, although they like how it drives, they hate the interface you have to master to operate any feature on the car. They can't wait for the lease to expire, so they can get rid of the car.

 

[SlapTheFloor]

We bought an all-electric car (Hyundai Ionic 5) in January of this year and have now owned it for about 8 months. Admittedly, it's my wife's car and she has driven it about 95% of the time but I still don't know how to operate about 98% of the features in the car. It is ridiculously complicated. It truly scares me every time I drive it somewhere. I've left it going a few times when I got home, because there is no "noise" if you leave the car running or turn it off. I mean, the owner's manual is 680 pages long (with very small font) and almost impossible to understand - the section on how to lock and unlock the car doors is 28 pages long. I've watched some YouTube videos to try to learn some of the basics but I quickly forget what I've watched. We have friends in their 70's who leased a Tesla and, although they like how it drives, they hate the interface you have to master to operate any feature on the car. They can't wait for the lease to expire, so they can get rid of the car

Weird. I've only driven Teslas and Polestars, but both go to sleep after a certain amount of idle time (the same way a computer does). You don't have to actively turn them off. I don't know why Hyundai wouldn't have the same feature. It's a very useful.

Regarding the controls, there is a bit of a schism right now between EV and ICE cars, but that's going to disappear over time. Eventually, the ICE ones will be using a touchscreen interface as well. At least until most of it is replaced with voice-controlled AI.

 

[elvis14]

Weird. I've only driven Teslas and Polestars, but both go to sleep after a certain amount of idle time (the same way a computer does). You don't have to actively turn them off. I don't know why Hyundai wouldn't have the same feature. It's a very useful.

Regarding the controls, there is a bit of a schism right now between EV and ICE cars, but that's going to disappear over time. Eventually, the ICE ones will be using a touchscreen interface as well. At least until most of it is replaced with voice-controlled AI.

I think we will see most of the physical buttons disappear. But I think what we will see long term will not the the Tesla approach (everything in a touch screen) but an approach that has most things controlled with a touch screen and a few, frequently used things controlled with physical knobs, levers, buttons. For example, sound level, climate controls.

 

[budwom]

I think we will see most of the physical buttons disappear. But I think what we will see long term will not the the Tesla approach (everything in a touch screen) but an approach that has most things controlled with a touch screen and a few, frequently used things controlled with physical knobs, levers, buttons. For example, sound level, climate controls.

VW said some time ago they are getting significant feed back that customers want more knobs/buttons and less touch screen stuff (I agree with you, if I use it a lot I want it easy...my 2013 car is SO much easier to contend with than my 2023, and they are the same brand and model. )

 

[duke79]

Weird. I've only driven Teslas and Polestars, but both go to sleep after a certain amount of idle time (the same way a computer does). You don't have to actively turn them off. I don't know why Hyundai wouldn't have the same feature. It's a very useful.

Regarding the controls, there is a bit of a schism right now between EV and ICE cars, but that's going to disappear over time. Eventually, the ICE ones will be using a touchscreen interface as well. At least until most of it is replaced with voice-controlled AI.

Yea, that may be true too of the Hyundai Ionic 5. I usually remember within a few minutes that I did not turn the car off, so I have gone back to turn it off. Maybe it would turn off on its own after a certain time period. I'm sure it's explained somewhere in the 680 page owner's manual.

 

[duke79]

I think we will see most of the physical buttons disappear. But I think what we will see long term will not the the Tesla approach (everything in a touch screen) but an approach that has most things controlled with a touch screen and a few, frequently used things controlled with physical knobs, levers, buttons. For example, sound level, climate controls.

That is how the Hyundai Ionic 5 is set up. Most functions work through the touch screen but there are some manual buttons that you can use to adjust temperature/AC, the radio, etc. Although I find the buttons somewhat confusing too.

 

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

That is how the Hyundai Ionic 5 is set up. Most functions work through the touch screen but there are some manual buttons that you can use to adjust temperature/AC, the radio, etc. Although I find the buttons somewhat confusing too.

I have owned my Cadillac Lyriq now for over seven months. Most functions you use daily are controlled by physical buttons, HVAC, windows, doors, cruise, self driving, wipers etc. The only annoying one missing is the glove box. When car is parked a button on the screen opens the glove box. When in drive, the button on the screen disappears so not sure how you open the damn thing. I’m old so not into mastering new technology. So sure their are things it can do that I don’t know. It is computerish in that something like the speed sign recognition may or may not work on any given day. Having said all that, I love the car. It is quiet, fast, easy to drive, comfortable. If traffic is okay I like taking it out for a leisurely drive to bask in the quiet environment with great music playing. With a passenger you can have a conversation without shouting and that’s with me being half deaf. I certainly don’t miss gas stations or oil changes. And despite what some claim there is little to service. I use one pedal driving which works great on the Caddy so I will never need new brake pads or rotors. I seriously don’t see how dealers will stay in business selling only tires and wiper blades. And unlike others, my insurance costs didn’t budge. I am not a proponent of an electric car for anyone who takes long trips or can’t charge at home. But for someone who doesn’t drive but about 8,000 miles a year, it is perfect. I have probably taken a hit on depreciation but as I don't intend to trade anytime soon I am fine with that. Truly sorry the whole EV thing has been turned into a political issue by some. Who knows if Leon, meant Elon, butters Trump up enough he may become a promoter of EV’s.

 

[Jfrosh]

That is how the Hyundai Ionic 5 is set up. Most functions work through the touch screen but there are some manual buttons that you can use to adjust temperature/AC, the radio, etc. Although I find the buttons somewhat confusing too.

I absolutely love my Ionic 5. If you drive daily you learn all the features pretty quickly. Having actual buttons on the dash and steering wheel makes a huge difference. I really didn't like having everything just on the screen (even shifting) when I test drove the Model Y.

 

[duke79]

I absolutely love my Ionic 5. If you drive daily you learn all the features pretty quickly. Having actual buttons on the dash and steering wheel makes a huge difference. I really didn't like having everything just on the screen (even shifting) when I test drove the Model Y.

Yea, my wife loves the car! I haven't driven it enough to have strong feelings, one way or another. Of course, there have already been two "recalls" for software updates but not a big deal.

 

[crote]

I've been researching EVs trying to see if one makes sense for replacing our second car (a '98 Forester if you can believe it). We're looking for something that's under $30k but is more than just a glorified smart car and which has decent range, which more or less limits you to a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt. I'm told that the Leaf's air-cooled battery is a non-starter if you live in a really hot climate, which I certainly do (Arizona). That leaves just the Bolt, which people seem to love.

Only problem is that Chevy discontinued the Bolt in model year '23. They say they're bringing it back for '26, updated for GM's new Ultium EV platform, but that won't be for another year or so. I'd love to grab a used Bolt, but we make slightly too much money to qualify for the IRA's used EV tax credit. We do qualify for the larger credit for new vehicles, and a new Bolt with the credit costs about the same as a lightly used one without the credit, but there are zero new Bolts available in our area. I'm in whatever the opposite of the Goldilocks zone is for income level, tax credit eligibility, and vehicle availability. Now it's a game of chicken to see if we can go another 9+ months with a second car of, uh, dubious roadworthiness, or if I should spend the same amount of money for a slightly worse car right now.

Would be nice if there were more than like two EVs with an MSRP under 50 grand. Jeep has promised a $25k EV in the near future, and Ford says its working on a similarly priced model, so hope may be around the corner.