TKG
Member
Embattled MLB legend Pete Rose dies at 83
Pete Rose, the all-time hits leader who was banned from baseball for betting on the game, has died at age 83.
Pete Rose - RIP
- Thread starter TKG
- Start date
MartyClark
Member
I read the recent biography of him and it confirmed what I thought his off the field life was like. Prickly guy who cut a lot of corners.Embattled MLB legend Pete Rose dies at 83
Pete Rose, the all-time hits leader who was banned from baseball for betting on the game, has died at age 83.www.espn.com
He was a good ball player though. He could hit, albeit for singles, and really did hustle.
Tappan Zee Devil
Member
Yeah - a great player on the field, but a hustler in more ways than one.
He was a complex person. - good sides and not so good sides
Quite aside from the gambling - There is no excuse for what he did to Roy Fosse - in an all star (exhibition- means nothing) game
over all - I think it is right that he is not in Cooperstown.
sciencegeek
Member
RIP, played with a ton of heart. Dont see that as much these days.
Tappan Zee Devil
Member
Ray, not Roy (sorry)
still - no excuse
Blue in the Face
Member
He didn't have a "lifetime ban." He was placed on the permanently ineligible list, which continues to make him ineligible for the Hall of Fame.
acdevil
Member
Hmm, fair enough.
I’m still of the opinion that they should let him in. As well as bonds, Clemens, arod, etc. and their plaques should make sure to explain the controversy and what they did wrong. It’s supposed to be a museum so why limit it to only players without warts?
killerleft
Member
Maybe a single plaque with all of them on it, next to a restroom. The heading of said plaque: If Only They Had Respected the Game.
BandAlum83
Member
Personally, I don’t think it’s a museum at all. It’s a Hall of Fame. Not a hall of infamy.
I was a fan, and always played the game as it should be.
He disappointed me, and agreed, the all-star Fosse play was just wrong and revealed much of his character.
He doesn’t belong in the Hall. The steroid kings don’t either.
YmoBeThere
Member
Having lived in the 'nati, there are many there who revere the man. It was the only time a scrappy town on the Ohio River could best the big cities.
Well, I am saddened by this news. I grew up in Cincinnati and we all loved Charlie Hustle. I remember attending Red’s games with my dad (schools gave free tickets to those who got straight A’s, and my dad was always my +1). My father impressed upon me the importance of hard work and never quitting, and that Pete was the model of those traits. Yes, he had character flaws, but he also always made his team better. There are not many exceptional athletes, leaders, etc., (and humans?) who don’t also have some obvious character flaws. The same characteristics that made him Charlie Hustle played a role in his “sins”. Should he be in HOF? Probably not, but I still admire those hustle characteristics and mourn his passing.
toughbuff1
Member
Let Shoeless Joe in first, then we can talk
It's funny, I kind of come to the opposite conclusion from what I think is a similar perspective as yours. I don't know whether one needs to be outraged. For me it's a shoulder shrug and "Oh, well. He probably shouldn't have gambled on games he played in or managed and then been completely unremorseful about it for the rest of his life (in addition to being generally viewed as a pretty crummy human being)." No one's owed enshrinement or everlasting societal adulation, and I'm OK with not bestowing unnecessary extra praise on a pile of statistics divorced from the humanity of the person who accumulated them.
I'm sort of the same way now re: the juicers - I've spent enough years being annoyed that they're not in the Hall of Fame with asterisks on their plaques. I'll forever note that they were hitting against flame throwing pitchers who were also juicing, and that steroids don't do anything to help hand-eye coordination, but ultimately it's not worth being all that upset about. So I'm resigned to Bonds, McGwire, and the rest not getting in, too, although I'd still prefer the Hall to include them with some good contextualizing to go with it.
My vague understanding is that Rose bet on his team to win, while Shoeless Joe affected the games negatively (I may need a history lesson here). I do see those as different.
Similarly, I have trouble believing that Jordan, as big a gambler as he was, never bet on himself to win.
OldPhiKap
Super Moderator
While several of Shoeless Joe’s teammates were found to have thrown the World Series, there was never any clear evidence afaik that he participated (and in fact according to some sources he reported the attempted bribe to his manager). It was, at best, very debatable. My memory says that he led both teams in batting average in the series and his hit total for the series was a record for decades.
Let in Joe, let in Charlie Hustle. Baseball writers, get over yourselves.
sagegrouse
Member
Anyway, HOF is a private organization, which has done some dumb things over the years. Putting Bowie Kuhn in the Hall in 2008 posthumously after he declared bankruptcy and moved to Fla. In the 1980s to avoid paying his debts. Then leaving his adversary, Marvin Miller, out of the Hall until 2020, because, I suppose, the HOF bosses hated unions.
acdevil
Member
Well, it’s up for debate about Jackson. His teammates were definitely throwing games, but he played well during the series and the claim was that he wasn’t involved (but may have known it was happening).