Edouble
Member
Maybe he was feeling sick, or had a slight ankle sprain?
Observations from Countdown and practice
- Thread starter JasonEvans
- Start date
JasonEvans
Host, The Duke Basketball Roundup
I mean, I am not going to talk about my sources, even in vague kind of terms. Sorry.
But you are correct that part of why I have been talking about the limited role of the 8th - 10th men is that I heard from multiple sources close to the program that Scheyer has been seeing a real separation on the squad and he feels there are 7 guys who stand out from the rest in a pretty big way. Again, I heard this from multiple people.
That is why, when I arrived at the practice, I was keenly focused on seeing who was in the top 7. It is highly possible that others who were at the open practice may have missed the way Gillis was treated differently from Sion and Maliq.
Yeah, for sure. I am more than willing to admit I could be wrong and/or things could change. Heck, I hope I am wrong as I have been loudly advocating for a deeper rotation for years and especially this off-season.
I'm out here vehemently defending something I sorta hope does not happen... it feels kindy icky.
Then why did he fully practice with the blue squad? It is not like he was sitting out at all during practice. It was just that he was playing alongside the blue squad the whole time.
sagegrouse
Member
Sounds to me like Scheyer gave a challenge to the three transfers -- "Don't think you've earned playing time based on your resume. You have to earn it in practice here!"
Whenever I hear Jon speak to the media he mentions defense and this team finding its identity through defense. Maybe it's just coachspeak. If it isn't, there were some significant defensive red flags on display during the Blue-White game that will limit how much some players will play. It does not mean they won't play, but it doesn't seem prudent to assume a poor defender will play 30+ minutes.
scottdude8
Moderator, front page and podcast contributor
Just to back Jason up here, we've talked about this topic ad nauseum around here, both publicly and amongst the mods. The conclusion we came to was that Jason and Donald our basically our "insiders" given the access they have from the pod, and as such are given more leeway than other posters here. I fully understand that not everyone agrees with this policy, but it is the decision that was come to (after MUCH deliberation!), so let's please not open up this Pandora's box again
scottdude8
Moderator, front page and podcast contributor
And I think this is, in part, why we targeted the guys we did rather than going after guys who were "higher ranked" by the various sites who do such things. Jon would much rather have Mason Gillis, who could play 20 mpg on a very good team or play a smaller role if that's how the team evolved and still be content, than someone who needed a promise of a starting role, certain NIL $s, and/or a clear path to the NBA.
My guess is that this is why we're lower in the "Way Too Early" rankings then maybe we around here think we should be, because our transfers don't have marquee pedigree or stats necessarily. But they're what this team needed. If we got a guy who would be upset that Kon's ascension relegated him to more limited bench minutes and that threw off our chemistry, none of us would care that getting that transfer looked better in the summer "transfer rankings."
Phredd3
Member
Fair enough, and I hope you're wrong, too.
I agree with you about who the likely top 7 are, by the way. I thought it came out pretty clearly in practice that Sion would come into the lineup quite frequently as backup for all three of 'Reese, CFos, and Kon, even playing the 1 from time to time to keep CFos in attack mode. Mason Gillis suffers a bit compared to Sion because Mason does not have ball-handling skills and two of our best offensive players, Cooper and Kon, occupy the two spots he's capable of playing. Gillis will pretty much never see the floor when both of those guys are in the game, and we know Cooper is going to be near the top of the minutes-eaters on this team (neck-and-neck with Tyrese). That really gives Gillis only one major spot to slot into, and it's a spot that Sion might also get if we go with a three-guard look, which, especially with a big team, we're pretty likely to do quite a bit.
But I still think Gillis will manage to carve out a bigger role than just being Cooper's understudy. He's just too efficient to be riding the pine for 35 minutes per game, and I think that's likely to come out in game reps. But I could certainly be wrong about that.
JasonEvans
Host, The Duke Basketball Roundup
I think you and I are remarkably close on all this stuff. The only difference is that I sorta think Scheyer won't be able to find more than a brief run or two for Gillis per game and you think he will find some way to get Mason in there for some extended periods.
whereinthehellami
Member
I'll take it a step further. Coach needs to get Gillis at least 10 minutes a game. It is not just about depth and whatever. It is and has been about toughness. You find a way because Gillis is tough, a winner, a glue guy. You know what glue guys do? They fill all the cracks and holes. Coach is making the big bucks, do what you need to do to make sure this kid is playing enough with the regulars that the toughness comes through.
Flagg - 32
Proctor - 30
Foster - 30
Maluach - 25
Knippel - 25
James - 25
Brown - 21
Gillis - 12
total = 200
Hey look, I even have seperation among the top 7. This doesn't have to be hard.
Flagg - 32
Proctor - 30
Foster - 30
Maluach - 25
Knippel - 25
James - 25
Brown - 21
Gillis - 12
total = 200
Hey look, I even have seperation among the top 7. This doesn't have to be hard.
Interesting response to naming captains today. Although prodded, Jon does mention Sion and Gilliscas as candidates. I akso believe both these guys will play solid minutes.
JasonEvans
Host, The Duke Basketball Roundup
While that may be something like the minute distribution over the course of the season (with Evans and Harris and possibly Ngongba getting time too), I think that by the time we get to February and March and are playing really important games you are going to see Flagg, Proctor, and probably Foster playing more like 35+ minutes per game (which is what happened with Proctor, Roach, and McCain last year in our final 10 games or so).
kAzE
Member
A short Jon Scheyer interview:
A few takeaways:
-He's not playing 10-11 guys
-When asked about who will surprise people, he mentioned Kon first, then Caleb
-Mentioned Pat Ngongba is injured (or at least not fully healthy)
-He considers Cooper Flagg a guard, and will have him operate on the perimeter as a guard
A few takeaways:
-He's not playing 10-11 guys
-When asked about who will surprise people, he mentioned Kon first, then Caleb
-Mentioned Pat Ngongba is injured (or at least not fully healthy)
-He considers Cooper Flagg a guard, and will have him operate on the perimeter as a guard
MChambers
Member
This is great. Thanks for sharing. Another takeaway:
He's not giving JJ any coaching advice.
hustleplays
Member
kAzE, thanks for sharing this. A wonderful interview. My overall takeaways are pride, respect and gratitude. We have a program who has bequeathed to us a coach who talks honestly and graciously, who drives for excellence, without apology, and who has an amazing resume as both player and coach.
Jon refers to his staff, not just to himself. He embraces merit and competitiveness. Powerful recruiting signals: Our goal is to be the best we can be by the end of the season. Arizona, Duke and Kansas, you are our partners on our journey to win it all in March [April]. Hope you don't mind being our scrimmage partners to assist us toward our own trophies.
btw, Jon wouldn't acknowledge it publicly, but I am convinced that JJ and Jon do now and then share coaching tidbits, just as Coach K, Jon and now JJ will do. Wish I could be that proverbial fly on the wall.
Coach Jon's viewing Cooper as a guard reminds me of Bill Walton, who had a great handle and PG smartness, but with his rapidly increasing height and every other basketball skill, was put into the paint by his HS coach. To me, Jon's affirming Cooper as a guard sends disconcerting signals to our opponents. Would have made their job easier if Jon had said, "Given Cooper's skills and height, we are mostly going to use him in the 4 to 5 positions." Our dear opponents: Plan for Cooper to be anywhere on the court. Sweet.
Jon refers to his staff, not just to himself. He embraces merit and competitiveness. Powerful recruiting signals: Our goal is to be the best we can be by the end of the season. Arizona, Duke and Kansas, you are our partners on our journey to win it all in March [April]. Hope you don't mind being our scrimmage partners to assist us toward our own trophies.
btw, Jon wouldn't acknowledge it publicly, but I am convinced that JJ and Jon do now and then share coaching tidbits, just as Coach K, Jon and now JJ will do. Wish I could be that proverbial fly on the wall.
Coach Jon's viewing Cooper as a guard reminds me of Bill Walton, who had a great handle and PG smartness, but with his rapidly increasing height and every other basketball skill, was put into the paint by his HS coach. To me, Jon's affirming Cooper as a guard sends disconcerting signals to our opponents. Would have made their job easier if Jon had said, "Given Cooper's skills and height, we are mostly going to use him in the 4 to 5 positions." Our dear opponents: Plan for Cooper to be anywhere on the court. Sweet.
Yup. He's going to be an absolute matchup nightmare. Jon's comments also subtly suggest that he views our mostly likely lineups as 4-guard, 1-big units. And Jason's "top 7" view syncs up with that and with Mason as a bit on the outside looking in, at least right now. That doesn't mean he won't play a meaningful role, but he's not really a guard or a true big, so his minutes may be more of the change of pace or matchup dependent variety.
Absolutely like how Coop’s game is being conceptualized as a guard. This will give him more freedom and control the game. His skills are so much greater than people realize. And this will backstop people into putting him into one of the “bigs” category. Kind of like Zion but with a better outside shot. Plus this will help him when he transitions to the NBA after getting drafted #1. And it’s better for Duke — the team — overall. Can’t wait for the season to start. Funny how Caleb is considered 6’5”!
hustleplays
Member
Oh my, I'm sorry about my typo. We are not facing Duke again, after CTC, but are rather facing Arizona, Arizona State, Army West Point, Kentucky, Kansas and Auburn PRE-SEASON! Are we blessed or what?
Wonder if our opponents are starting to feel like the Washington Generals.
It's not hard to write down a reasonable sounding minutes distribution like this one (except it's spelled "Ka-nipple" - isn't it?)
What's harder is lining these averages up with the reality over the course of the season - game by game matchups, variable performance in practices and games, foul trouble, injuries, fatigue, doghouses, bench-clearing blowouts.
Much like Lebron has averaged 27-7-7 without ever achieving those numbers in a game, there will probably be no game this season where the minutes distribution equals the season average. And I doubt the coaching staff even spends much time, if any, thinking about the season-long minutes distribution average.
sagegrouse
Member
Yes, they leave "minutes discussion" to us peons. And, quite possibly, the parents of the players.
I respect you for not providing your source and I like the little tid bits you give us. After hearing the news that Jon sees Cooper as a guard or perimeter player, I can see Gillis as the 8th player in a February rotation.
Proctor
Foster
Cooper
Kon or Sion
Malauch
Brown
Gillis
Having not seen the practices as you have, I'm hoping the guys are showing the toughness that Jon was looking for when he landed the 3 transfers. I think Proctor showed some toughness last season because I think he was our best defender. I think Cooper has an edge to him and wants to win every play. Sion is certainly a tough nosed player, Brown seems to have toughness and I believe Caleb and Malauch have it as well. We will need it with the early schedule against some really good teams. It's good to know we have a player like Gillis ready to contribute when needed.
GoDuke!