Indoor66
Well-known member
When the sport is also a business, the p&l statement is the ultimate ruler. No big profit no big salaries. When nothing comes in there's nothing with which to pay out. It is not a hard concept.
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SkyBrickey
Member
I mean, yes, it's all market forces. Most of the pro leagues have salary caps and luxury taxes to keep the semblance of a level playing field.
Does USMNT owe this revenue sharing to USWNT?
Someone can correct me, but I believe the NBA subsidizes the WNBA.
OldPhiKap
Super Moderator
But your question was which team is better. I believe the USWNT is demonstrably better than the USMNT when it comes to results over decades of ball.
As for pay, they fought about it not me. But our men’s team benefits financially from playing in a more lucrative league — not because they get better results. That’s the only point I’m making.
As for pay, they fought about it not me. But our men’s team benefits financially from playing in a more lucrative league — not because they get better results. That’s the only point I’m making.
FosterCoachK82
Member
I, for one, am loving it.
To be fair, this is only talking about the upcoming direct NIL payouts from institutions to athletes as a result of House vs. NCAA, not NIL payouts via collectives and other sources. I agree it's still a mess, but they're saying Title IX only applies to school direct payments just like it applies to school direct scholarship monies. Collectives and corporations could still pay male football players as much as they want...
And there's a new administration coming in which may have a different opinion.
cato
Member
For starters, they didn’t lose at Trinidad and Tobago (!!!) with a World Cup berth on the line, and cover themselves in ignominy.
But hey! The silver lining of not qualifying for the biggest tournament in the universe is that you don’t have to fly home from France after losing to bleeping IRAN to complete a group stage with ZERO points.
That table will never be erased from the history books.
Blech. Best not to try to make some argument that USMNT are somehow better than the USWNT because they are men. I’m all in on supporting our teams, but we’ve got one that is world class and one that is, at best, trying to get a seat at the big boys’ table (and usually failing).
SkyBrickey
Member
I don't really know soccer. Someone posted the men make more because they have a bigger audience. If this is true, it makes sense right?
AustinDevil
Member
You’ll find a good summary of the arguments from the USWNT lawsuit against US Soccer here. It depends on how you view the various numbers, and what assumptions you make about, e.g., to what extent American viewers are watching the World Cup because of the USMNT rather than because of the World Cup more broadly, and the same for the USWNT versus the Women’s World Cup. My personal opinion is that the USWNT’s share of the WWC viewership is vastly higher than for the USMNT and the WC. Hell, our men have only made one QF in 95 years, and it’s huge news when the women aren’t at least in the final.
JasonEvans
Host, The Duke Basketball Roundup
Actually, I believe the DoE opinion states that the educational institutions should get a better handle on booster NIL payments to ensure those comply with Title IX too. That takes this mess to a whole new level of complexity.
I have already heard from some folks that there is an anticipation that a Trump DoE will rescind this decision. Without getting too much into the politics of it, this is the kind of thing that the anti-DEI advocates around Trump are likely to try to reverse.
JasonEvans
Host, The Duke Basketball Roundup
I dunno how relevant it is to much of the conversation being had here, but the USMNT is better than the USWNT in the most basic understanding of the word "better." Were the two teams to compete, the men would win, and likely win relatively easily.
Similarly, the Washington Wizards are better than the Auburn Tigers... and the 2-15 Miss Valley State men's hoops team are better than the undefeated UCLA women's basketball team.
How any of that translates to what monies the various players get is a whole different matter, of course.
Similarly, the Washington Wizards are better than the Auburn Tigers... and the 2-15 Miss Valley State men's hoops team are better than the undefeated UCLA women's basketball team.
How any of that translates to what monies the various players get is a whole different matter, of course.
Indoor66
Well-known member
The who gets money relates directly to who puts butts in the seats unless politics becomes involved. Women's sports just do not draw the audiences.
As part of the USWNT settlement, the USMNT had to agree to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement that provided for equal pay, which they did.
Regarding the latest Title IX twist to NIL, I don't think it will matter that men's collegiate sports earn more revenue. That type of non-discriminatory reason would be a valid defense in an equal pay case (as the Court determined in the USWNT lawsuit), but that's not been a viable defense under Title IX where the government requires athletic financial support to be proportionate between men and women participating in collegiate sports.
In any event, while it's hard to predict anything that the incoming presidential administration will do, I'm in line with the posters who think the new administration will roll back this interpretation. There's also some talk of Congress finally having the motivation to take action in the NIL arena. We'll see, I suppose.
CrazyNotCrazie
Member
Speaking of Miss Valley State, there was a great article in The Athletic a week or two ago about the team and how they travel the country as a sacrificial lamb against bigger schools to get big payday's to fund the school's athletic department. They have not won (or even been close in) a non-conference road game in decades, but they keep the lights on. It was a fascinating look into the other side of college basketball.
Bottom line - there is so much wrong with college sports right now. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I'm glad some money is being redirected towards the players but this is not the right way to do it and it is not sustainable. And it is counter to the mission of most universities. But every school has different goals and needs so it will be impossible to get everyone together to create a better solution.
(sorry - can't find a way to do a gift link)
Paid to lose, college basketball’s worst team takes the L’s to make ends meet
MVSU is the Washington Generals of college basketball, paid to lose spectacularly to big foes. They endure for the experience and the money.
www.nytimes.com
sagegrouse
Member
Nitpick: DoE stands for Dep't of Energy. Department of Education is "ED."
cato
Member
I am just sharing a few points about why the women are better than the men, since you don’t follow soccer.
To be fair, the women's world cup was established in 1991, whereas the men's world cup has existed for almost a century, so 3x as long. Women's sports have also been suppressed in many areas of the world until very recently (and are still suppressed in some areas of the world), which impacts both participation and audience.
But in the parts of the world where women's sports have been embraced and cultivated, they've done a pretty solid job of generating audience. We certainly see this every other year when the Olympics roll around... women's figure skating and gymnastics are traditionally some of the top billed items in any Olympic games, for good reason—they're popular with a big worldwide audience. Here in the U.S. (and in Europe), we've seen the popularity of women's soccer grow in recent years, largely due to the impact of the USWNT success on the world stage. The same is starting to happen with the WNBA (also a very young league in comparison to it's much older men's counterpart), partially due to the Caitlin Clark/Angel Reese entry into the league which some have compared to the Bird/Magic moment that accelerated interest in the NBA.
It's somewhat frustrating to hear 'intelligent' business people take a dump [intentionally or unintentionally] on the potential of a league without considering or discussing the full context. Heck, look at ESports today—back when I was a kid and wanted the new Nintendo console, my parents pooh-poohed the idea saying that video games would 'rot your brain' and were a 'waste of time.' Now there are a host of professional ESports leagues devoted to 'brain-rotting' and 'time-wasting' where the participants make more money than many doctors and lawyers out there.
Oh yeah... and if we're comparing apples to apples—the USWNT is far more accomplished than the USMNT, no question (and I love watching both and am hopeful that this generation of USMNT talent will live up to its billing and make a splash to the semis or beyond, whether in 2026 or 2030).
Phredd3
Member
This is absolutely not true. The men made much more than the women because the men's game *as a whole* is much bigger, so the payout structure of the sport as a whole is much bigger. However, the USMNT actually drew a much smaller viewing audience than the USWNT, which is what led to the problem.
Objectively, the women deserved more revenue because they attracted more viewers for advertising. At least at the time the lawsuit was filed. I believe the recent performance of the USMNT and USWNT may have flipped the numbers more recently.
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CameronBornAndBred
Well-known member
This will be interesting to watch.
www.yahoo.com
Former Wisconsin DB Xavier Lucas leaving school for Miami without entering transfer portal in a groundbreaking move
Wisconsin refused to enter Lucas into the portal after he requested a transfer, but he's off to Miami regardless in a groundbreaking move that may have ramifications across college football.
I’ve long thought the limited nature of the portal was problematic legally. How can you limit a guys right to transfer colleges when he wants to? Well, he can transfer I would think, but in a situation like this where the player has signed a contract giving his marketing rights to the former school, I’d think that school could enforce that contract. Would that result in the player not being able to sell those rights to a new suitor? I’d think so. Interesting one to watch.This will be interesting to watch.
Former Wisconsin DB Xavier Lucas leaving school for Miami without entering transfer portal in a groundbreaking move
Wisconsin refused to enter Lucas into the portal after he requested a transfer, but he's off to Miami regardless in a groundbreaking move that may have ramifications across college football.