MBB: Duke 84, Auburn 78 Postgame Thread

grad_devil said:
Yes, this describes it better. Johnson touched it in the cylinder first, and then Maliq tips it in. And just so we can Zapruder the #$& out of it, here you go:

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Once the Auburn player touches it, it’s goaltending on him and the play is done. Maliq’s tip is just a dead ball non-play.
 
MChambers said:
Having said that, Pearl’s sideline behavior wasn’t great and it seemed to inspire his team to whine quite a bit.
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I’ve watched the game twice, and I thought Pearl’s sideline behavior was better than I would have expected it would be coming into the game. He didn’t seem to complain to the refs. When something didn’t go his team’s way, he directed the frustration toward his player that committed the mistake. Now, I don’t know if he did this in the best way possible (I recall a player headed to his seat on the sideline and having an animated back and forth with Pearl).

He’s always had a chippiness about him. I wonder if that reflects in his players, like the types of behaviors like those we saw from Baker-Mazara (what a churlish, petulant little punk).

Perhaps Pearl merely seems tame after what we’ve all seen from Danny Hurley of late.
 
Monmouth77 said:
This is implicit (or maybe explicit) in a bunch of comments upthread, but Maliq Brown is such an amazing defender that, regardless of how Man Man develops, he has to be on the floor for huge stretches of the game. I have no doubt that Man Man will help us more and more on the offensive end, and will learn to use his length more effectively on defense, but unless he turns into late season Derek Lively on the defensive end of the floor, this is a platoon all year. And what a luxury to have two effective players with different skillsets we can rollout situationally to meet the matchups.
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I haven’t read the rest of this thread yet, and apologies if I suggested this in another thread (or I may have merely thought about it without actually posting it):

Imagine there are 12 seconds left in an NCAA tourney game and we are up by 2, with the opponent about to inbound the ball after a timeout for one last possession to try to tie or win (in fact, we may be the ones to call the timeout in this situation).

And imagine that the defensive lineup we put on the floor is Proctor, Sion, Cooper, Maliq, and ManMan.

I sure like our chances there.
 
evrim said:
Come on, Broome fouled out at the very end to stop the clock. I also responded to somebody's (yours?) who put the shooting stats as why Broome wasn't that great. He also had an insane defensive player on him.

Anyways, I think he had a darn good game considering the defense we put on him. This is not a hill I want to die on, though.
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If Broome played that game and had those stats every game this season, he’d have a pretty high probability of being not only first team All American but also National Player of the Year.
 
jipops said:
I was thinking the same while watching the game. But I have a hunch we'll see these improve as the season progresses. He's got a good shooting form. It may just be a matter of continuing to adapt to the college game.
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Does he, though? I see the ball spinning sideways when he shoots. Almost all pure shooters spin the ball directly backwards.
 
rsvman said:
Does he, though? I see the ball spinning sideways when he shoots. Almost all pure shooters spin the ball directly backwards.
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All his 3 point shots and free throws have back spin. On some of his short pull up jumpers, he does sometimes shoot a no-spin, flat ball. Maybe it has come out at times with side spin. This is probably what you've seen.

It's not ideal. Still a work in progress. I'd amend your statement to say ALL pure shooters have backspin on their shots.
 
rsvman said:
Does he, though? I see the ball spinning sideways when he shoots. Almost all pure shooters spin the ball directly backwards.
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His shot is light years better than when I watched him in person at Hoops Summit. He made a 3 in that game from the elbow and his wrist snapped/went forward but the ball came out like a knuckleball. The crowd kinda went woo and he made it. I would say from watching him live that his mid range game has very good mechanics and rotation but that extra 7-8 ft further out is still a work in process.
 
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7424747377409494303

As someone who thinks deeply about shooting form and participated in an EXHAUSTIVE shooting form discussion a few years ago...these are my thoughts. Looking at this video, he has great rotation on his shot. But he has what I would call a "loud" shot. He jumps pretty high on his 3s and that leads to multiple points of failure. I think he sometimes has a bit of a hitch, where he can cock it back, rather than smoothly flowing into his shot. He also had a lot of left hand on top of the ball here, rather than more to the side. You can be a great shooter with all of these things. But they can also get in the way a bit. From a shot doctor perspective, if I were coaching a shooter with these mechanics I would probably be more inclined to worry about that guide hand.
 
ClemmonsDevil said:
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7424747377409494303

As someone who thinks deeply about shooting form and participated in an EXHAUSTIVE shooting form discussion a few years ago...these are my thoughts. Looking at this video, he has great rotation on his shot. But he has what I would call a "loud" shot. He jumps pretty high on his 3s and that leads to multiple points of failure. I think he sometimes has a bit of a hitch, where he can cock it back, rather than smoothly flowing into his shot. He also had a lot of left hand on top of the ball here, rather than more to the side. You can be a great shooter with all of these things. But they can also get in the way a bit. From a shot doctor perspective, if I were coaching a shooter with these mechanics I would probably be more inclined to worry about that guide hand.
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I'd not seen a close up of Cooper's shot. In this video, he does in fact have his left hand on top of the ball. I believe just the one change of that hand would help him become a better shooter.

GoDuke!
 
SkyBrickey said:
It's not ideal. Still a work in progress. I'd amend your statement to say ALL pure shooters have backspin on their shots.
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Rebecca Greenwell is one of the best three-point shooters ever on the Duke women's team (#1 in 3FGs made and attempted, #6 in percentage at 39.9%), and she had a very prominent side-spin on her shot. While I'd never try to teach her stroke to anyone, there's much more to good shooting than just spin.
 
Phredd3 said:
Rebecca Greenwell is one of the best three-point shooters ever on the Duke women's team (#1 in 3FGs made and attempted, #6 in percentage at 39.9%), and she had a very prominent side-spin on her shot. While I'd never try to teach her stroke to anyone, there's much more to good shooting than just spin.
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That's right. You can be a great shooter with a jacked up form. I shot 42% from three in 3 years playing varsity in high school and my brother shot an absurd 51% from three his senior year. He's the best shooter I've ever met. Atrocious athlete. Just absolutely sedentary. But man he could shoot. I have a classical form and he has a set shot. You don't all have to have the same shot to be successful.
 
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ClemmonsDevil said:
That's right. You can be a great shooter with a jacked up form. I shot 42% from three in 3 years playing varsity in high school and my brother shot an absurd 51% from three his senior year. He's the best shooter I've ever met. Atrocious athlete. Just absolutely sedentary. But man he could shoot. I have a classical form and he has a set shot. You don't all have to have the same shot to be successful.
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CD: Dad, guess what - I’m shooting 42% from 3 this year!!
Dad: Sorry to hear that, son. But don't worry - you do other things well! And maybe you can get your brother to give you some lessons?
 
I guess we all look at his 3P shooting form and come to subjective conclusions. It looks moderately bad to me. But his 3P of 23% is objectively bad.

Here is how the rest of the comparable Top 10 recruits are shooting so far.
  • Ace Bailey - 38%
  • Harper - 29%
  • VJ - 27%
  • Tre Johnson - 45%
  • Ian Jackson - 50%
  • Liam McNeeley - 37%
  • Drake Powell - 44%
From the high school stats I could find, in his senior year his FT% was 78% and his 3P% was 38%.

My guess is his 3P% this year will be sub 30%. In which case I'd prefer he start taking fewer 3s.
 
bluedevilwildcats said:
I guess we all look at his 3P shooting form and come to subjective conclusions. It looks moderately bad to me. But his 3P of 23% is objectively bad.

Here is how the rest of the comparable Top 10 recruits are shooting so far.
  • Ace Bailey - 38%
  • Harper - 29%
  • VJ - 27%
  • Tre Johnson - 45%
  • Ian Jackson - 50%
  • Liam McNeeley - 37%
  • Drake Powell - 44%
From the high school stats I could find, in his senior year his FT% was 78% and his 3P% was 38%.

My guess is his 3P% this year will be sub 30%. In which case I'd prefer he start taking fewer 3s.
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Yep. He isn't shooting 3s well at all obviously. But I don't think that necessarily means he will never be a good 3 point shooter. There are things about his form I am not crazy about. And I would feel better about them if he was shooting well obviously. His shot isn't broken, but he is going to have to clean up some of it moving forward to become a great shooter probably.
 
Phredd3 said:
Rebecca Greenwell is one of the best three-point shooters ever on the Duke women's team (#1 in 3FGs made and attempted, #6 in percentage at 39.9%), and she had a very prominent side-spin on her shot. While I'd never try to teach her stroke to anyone, there's much more to good shooting than just spin.
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That's very interesting about Rebecca. But backspin vs side spin is not really optional on a jumpshot if you plan to be a good shooter in the NBA.

I haven't really picked up any sidespin on Cooper's shot except on maybe a couple of his corkscrew midrange jumpers. He definitely doesn't have it on his free throws which are the "pure" version of his shot.

The fact that he shot 78% on his FTs in high school tells me he's just in a bit of a freshman slump. My bet is that he's been hyper focused with the coaches on how to create offense without turning the ball over and that his shooting will come around as he settles in.
 
SkyBrickey said:
That's very interesting about Rebecca. But backspin vs side spin is not really optional on a jumpshot if you plan to be a good shooter in the NBA.

I haven't really picked up any sidespin on Cooper's shot except on maybe a couple of his corkscrew midrange jumpers. He definitely doesn't have it on his free throws which are the "pure" version of his shot.

The fact that he shot 78% on his FTs in high school tells me he's just in a bit of a freshman slump. My bet is that he's been hyper focused with the coaches on how to create offense without turning the ball over and that his shooting will come around as he settles in.
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Probably a bit of the college game being faster and also, as you say, that he's got other responsibilities on offense. Proctor is shooting 3s much better now that he's playing off the ball.
 
MChambers said:
Probably a bit of the college game being faster and also, as you say, that he's got other responsibilities on offense. Proctor is shooting 3s much better now that he's playing off the ball.
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It's a little be longer shot in college if I'm not mistaken. I don't know the distance in the NBA.
 
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