FB: Duke 46, Clemson 45 (Week 10 -- Saturday 11/1)
- Thread starter brevity
- Start date
Yes, Jon’s both fan/press demeanor far different from K’s.
sagegrouse
Member
He won't. He played to the Clemson fan base with his first comment. Now, he just says, "I can't talk any more about it."
A mediocre year for the Tigers, but he has enough great ones to sail through this season's results.
ya, for all of Dabo's whining, he might want to look at why, Barkate was open by 20 yards on his 77 yard TD reception, why Brown inexplicably got behind the defense with little time left in the first half for a TD reception, why Hasley was open by 10 yards as he rumbled down the field on the winning drive, why no one touched Hagans on his kickoff runback TD...
kingbluedevil
New member
I'm surprised Dabo didn't bring up his past success like he usually does. If he had time to cool off he may have given Duke little more credit and talked less about one call while giving up 46 points.
Dan Hurley has taken over the college position of "coach who thinks too highlyof themselves, and will let you know at every opportunity"...so Dabo had to take a backseat.
Dr. Maturin
Member
Sometimes you just have to laugh. Duke has now lost 3 games despite winning the success rate battle, and we're 2-0 when losing it (State game being the other). It goes without saying that Duke's route to victory Saturday is not exactly a repeatable one. But who cares? That was a win for the ages.
Mike Petrik
Member
Very interesting. I guess the lesson is that while winning more plays is good and desirable, it is often overcome by committing more mistakes or allowing more explosives.
I suspect Manny played aggressive precisely because he thought the talent disparity would result in a Clemson success rate advantage.
Last edited:
Phredd3
Member
Oh, he looked at those. The reason was clearly that there wasn't enough OPI.
Mike Petrik
Member
0
TheDevilMadeMeDoIt
Member
The camera work for the game sucked all day. Couldn’t keep up with the receivers and the ball. The ball would be in the air and the viewer had no idea if if could be a completed pass. The crew showing the replay had no idea they should show more than the absolute end of the play with the “controversial” call and of course the Clemson guys only showed their defender going to the ground on the replay in the stadium.
I actually have no problem of Dabo being vocal about the call, even if he was wrong. A) you have to fight for your team to show you have their back or they won't believe in you. B) you bring attention to the call so if you wind up in a similar situation in a future game, maybe the call goes your way. I also thought the Clemson defender flopped when the Duke WR (Brown?) turned to make a play on the ball. Basically he was riding the WR the whole way until the momentum changed direction
My personal experience doesn't align with your "fan demeanor" comment. I was in the DFW airport once and happened to pass Coach K and his wife Mickie walking in the opposite direction. This was shortly after his first national championship. I turned around and called out, “Hey Coach!” They both stopped and turned toward me. I congratulated him on the win and told him that if I had a son, I’d want him to play for Coach K—because I truly believed he taught his players to play the game the way it was meant to be played. Both he and Mickie were incredibly gracious with their time, even to a random stranger in an airport.
That is correct. The production values for the game were low even by ACCN standards. The commentary on the last call was highly subjective by a coach famous for very regrettable comments. The penalty, as per the ensuing spot, took place at the 4 yd line, not in the end zone. The end zone camera replay on the DPI emphasized the end of the play. This is compounded by the apparent fact that the ACCN only had the end of the play on tape with the Clemson DB throwing up his hands feigning a “not guilty” pose. The commentators fell for that and yelled “that’s OPI, OPI!”
It is possible that the call could have also been D holding at the 4 yard line, but we are left to guess exactly where the ball was when the infraction took place. On reflection, Durham conceded that the only reason for the call was that the DPI took place well before the ball landed in the end zone. All this confusion because the side or back-(?) judge threw the flag after the ball hit the ground. It was a bang-bang play, after all, and refs are far from being superhuman in their reaction time. But the ref and the others consulted before the on field announcement.
Frankly, I was much more critical of the officiating in regard to the constant pick plays run by Clemson’s big receivers. The picks were elbows and hands, not blatant. A high % of Clemson’s completed passes were the result of downfield illegal contact.
Dr. Maturin
Member
The Good:
- Explosives. I talk a lot about success rate, but explosives matter too. Bill Connelley calls them the 3-point shot of CFB. This game was the basketball equivalent of getting outplayed in most areas, but getting insanely hot from 3 and winning.
- Manny's risk taking paid off. When you're the underdog, or getting outplayed, it pays to take more risk. Manny's decision to go for that fourth down late in the 2nd quarter was a really risky one. But it paid off. Likewise, going for two at the end of the game is the right move when you think you'd be a significant underdog in OT. The two-point conversion play call was a thing of beauty.
- Samhir Hagans. He's gotten overshadowed in our receiving corps a bit this year, and I'm really happy he got his moment on the game winner. Also, great kickoff return for a TD. Why isn't he our #1 returner for kicks and punts? He's now run two kickoffs and one punt back for TDs in his career.
- We're now 4-0 when we haven't committed a turnover.
- Darian Mensah was great again. With at least 4 games left, he needs 1,253 yards to break the school single season passing record. He needs 6 more TD to break the single season Duke record. If he maintains his 69.7% completion percentage, that would be a single season school record as well. He's done this all while carrying heavy load given the weaknesses on defense and in the running game. And he's done it with just 2 interceptions thrown.
- Credit where it is due: Todd Pelino made a critical field goal for us in the 4th quarter. I've been disappointed to see him scapegoated on twitter, etc. Todd has not had a good season, but he came through on Saturday.
The Bad:
- That was a very bad defensive performance. Maybe Clemson played better than usual, but they pushed us around like they haven't done to anyone including Troy. To me, it seemed more like talent than scheme. They looked better than us at every position on that side of the ball. I don't have much to say other than be glad nobody left on the schedule is as talented as Clemson.
- It seems like we invent ways to implode on special teams every week. Kade has been a solid punter this year, but that block was 100% on him.
- Our running game has taken a major step back. In the pregame, I expected us to struggle running the ball. But that makes consecutive poor showings in the running game, which is a concern. In fairness, we did convert short yardage runs much better than we did against GT.
- If we never have another game called by Wes Durham, it will be too soon. As for Adazzio, I enjoyed his call of the Syracuse game. But he was awful Saturday. He not only blew his analysis of the late DPI, but did so in a way that anchored the conversation about it being a bad call. Jay Bilas should sue for copyright infringement.
The Refs:
- My thoughts on that call:
1) There's always going to be the potential for controversy on what would have been a game-ending play. If the teams were reversed, I'm sure I'd be devastated even if the call was correct.
2) Pass interference is a subjective call and one of the more inconsistently applied standards in football. To that extent, I'm fine saying we were fortunate given how loose the standard is.
3) That said, the call was defensible. There is an argument that it should have been holding rather than DPI, but I do think some contact happened after the ball was in the air.
4) The argument that it should have been OPI seems laughable to me. I think the defender realized he had his hand in the cookie jar and tried to flop at the last second. Queso is entitled to run his route and didn't do anything wrong. I don't think I've ever seen OPI called for a defensive player "taking a charge" as their guy tried to do. OPI almost always results either from a pick play or a receiver pushing off.
5) There were some genuinely bad calls late in the game that were much more egregious than the 4th down play. Moments before the 4th down, the refs missed a DPI on the defender covering Barkate, as well as a late hit on Mensah. The most egregious of them all was the OPI called on Clemson on the last drive. I have no problem calling that a gift to us.
The Realistic:
- Manny has now beaten FSU for the first time ever, won at Clemson for the first time in 45 years, and is 4-0 against Big Four rivals. Some times its not only about how many, but which ones.
- We're in November with a shot at the ACC championship. I expect us to be favored on all four remaining games. The UConn game is for a bowl. The Virginia game is for a major shot at the ACC championship game. The final two are for the state title and maybe more. This could be a really fun month.
- Explosives. I talk a lot about success rate, but explosives matter too. Bill Connelley calls them the 3-point shot of CFB. This game was the basketball equivalent of getting outplayed in most areas, but getting insanely hot from 3 and winning.
- Manny's risk taking paid off. When you're the underdog, or getting outplayed, it pays to take more risk. Manny's decision to go for that fourth down late in the 2nd quarter was a really risky one. But it paid off. Likewise, going for two at the end of the game is the right move when you think you'd be a significant underdog in OT. The two-point conversion play call was a thing of beauty.
- Samhir Hagans. He's gotten overshadowed in our receiving corps a bit this year, and I'm really happy he got his moment on the game winner. Also, great kickoff return for a TD. Why isn't he our #1 returner for kicks and punts? He's now run two kickoffs and one punt back for TDs in his career.
- We're now 4-0 when we haven't committed a turnover.
- Darian Mensah was great again. With at least 4 games left, he needs 1,253 yards to break the school single season passing record. He needs 6 more TD to break the single season Duke record. If he maintains his 69.7% completion percentage, that would be a single season school record as well. He's done this all while carrying heavy load given the weaknesses on defense and in the running game. And he's done it with just 2 interceptions thrown.
- Credit where it is due: Todd Pelino made a critical field goal for us in the 4th quarter. I've been disappointed to see him scapegoated on twitter, etc. Todd has not had a good season, but he came through on Saturday.
The Bad:
- That was a very bad defensive performance. Maybe Clemson played better than usual, but they pushed us around like they haven't done to anyone including Troy. To me, it seemed more like talent than scheme. They looked better than us at every position on that side of the ball. I don't have much to say other than be glad nobody left on the schedule is as talented as Clemson.
- It seems like we invent ways to implode on special teams every week. Kade has been a solid punter this year, but that block was 100% on him.
- Our running game has taken a major step back. In the pregame, I expected us to struggle running the ball. But that makes consecutive poor showings in the running game, which is a concern. In fairness, we did convert short yardage runs much better than we did against GT.
- If we never have another game called by Wes Durham, it will be too soon. As for Adazzio, I enjoyed his call of the Syracuse game. But he was awful Saturday. He not only blew his analysis of the late DPI, but did so in a way that anchored the conversation about it being a bad call. Jay Bilas should sue for copyright infringement.
The Refs:
- My thoughts on that call:
1) There's always going to be the potential for controversy on what would have been a game-ending play. If the teams were reversed, I'm sure I'd be devastated even if the call was correct.
2) Pass interference is a subjective call and one of the more inconsistently applied standards in football. To that extent, I'm fine saying we were fortunate given how loose the standard is.
3) That said, the call was defensible. There is an argument that it should have been holding rather than DPI, but I do think some contact happened after the ball was in the air.
4) The argument that it should have been OPI seems laughable to me. I think the defender realized he had his hand in the cookie jar and tried to flop at the last second. Queso is entitled to run his route and didn't do anything wrong. I don't think I've ever seen OPI called for a defensive player "taking a charge" as their guy tried to do. OPI almost always results either from a pick play or a receiver pushing off.
5) There were some genuinely bad calls late in the game that were much more egregious than the 4th down play. Moments before the 4th down, the refs missed a DPI on the defender covering Barkate, as well as a late hit on Mensah. The most egregious of them all was the OPI called on Clemson on the last drive. I have no problem calling that a gift to us.
The Realistic:
- Manny has now beaten FSU for the first time ever, won at Clemson for the first time in 45 years, and is 4-0 against Big Four rivals. Some times its not only about how many, but which ones.
- We're in November with a shot at the ACC championship. I expect us to be favored on all four remaining games. The UConn game is for a bowl. The Virginia game is for a major shot at the ACC championship game. The final two are for the state title and maybe more. This could be a really fun month.
The only thing I want to add is Clemson, with all its skill and athleticism, dropped at least 2 easy interceptions and 1 or 2 easy pass receptions. We were lucky that they were bad at critical times. That was major Karma-payback for the Georgia Tech game where I think we were very unlucky, especially the bounce pass to the Tech DB that started the 95 yard fumble run.
Looking at the play carefully Queso was clearly held/interfered with at the 10 and again inside the 5…not just hand-checking, but grabbed. Looking at stop action, the ball left Mensah’s hand when Queso is at the 7 or 8.