Duke Men’s 2025-26 discussion
- Thread starter goFurman
- Start date
It was mostly garbage time. During your 14 game stretch (really 15 games because there was a DNP-CD stuck in the middle), Caleb only played 56 minutes in games that were not blowouts (I'm defining blowouts as wins by 20 or more points). In those 56 minutes, here are Caleb's per 40 stats:
5.7 pp40 on 20% shooting (3 for 15; 0 for 4 (0%) from three; 2 for 4 (50%) from the FT line); 7.1 rp40; 4.3 ap40; 3.6 turnovers per 40 (1.2:1 a/to)
I agree there is reason for optimism, but I also think you're relying in your assessment too much on a very small number of non-garbage-time minutes. The bottom line is that Caleb has not yet shown that he has the ability to be a starting PG on a championship caliber team. Maybe he can be, maybe not. Frankly, there are more (or at least as many) questions about Caleb Foster as there are about any other player on next year's team.
sagegrouse
Member
Kedsy, We've had these arguments for years. "Garbage time," a term coined by Laker annou cer Chick Hearn, is the end of the game when the teams clear their benches -- or in college when the deep bench and walk-ons play. A Duke win by 20+ dies not turn all 200 minutes of players' time into garbage time. There is virtually no garbage time at Duke -- Jon wouldn't tolerate it, nor K.
SkyBrickey
Member
Sage, don't try to stand in the way of the denigration of Caleb Foster. The mob won't be silenced until the season starts.
He was arguing a few posts back that Isaiah shot so poorly at the end of the year because he wasn't playing much. Now he's arguing that Caleb played so well at the end of the year because he wasn't playing much.
Games where Caleb got more than spot minutes (>9min) and was presumably able to settle into the game, he averaged 15.6pts per40min. There are multiple ways to interpret stats.
I don't know whether Caleb will start or whether he'll have a big season. But some fans are definitely underestimating him.
Last edited:
Neither “denigration” nor “mob” is a good choice of words here. I’ll hope you revise.
My sense is that all Duke fans are very pleased that Foster has stayed. He responded admirably late last season to his one-game DNP-CD, looked very determined to contribute important defensive intensity. Most posters think he’s a CG, not PG, who will at times nominally be the PG. He also seems to love it here, which by itself alone is likely to engender real affection, not denigration.
ETA — AlaskanAssassin has embedded a video of Foster doing handle drills. See “Foster returning” thread. Thanks, AA!
Last edited:
chrishoke
Member
Yes!!
brevity
Member
SkyBrickey
Member
If you're referring to me, I've said consistently I expect Isaiah to start. Is that denigration?
Pointing out that Isaiah was an extreme one-dimensional 3-point shooter last season and will need to change that to be a star upsets some people who are big Isaiah fans - but it's just reality backed by all CBB and NBA player shot charts.
SkyBrickey
Member
The poster in question has stated he does not believe Caleb will start and has taken every opportunity to parse data in ways to imply that Caleb is not a good basketball player. Quite a few posters on here jump in with their posts and their upvotes to agree.
Kon was getting the similar treatment on here last summer - too slow, too unathletic, can't defend ACC wings. I don't like it when posters direct unwarranted negativity toward our players. Yes, it can be a mob mentality - not retracting that descriptor.
Yes, you and I have been back and forth on the term "garbage time" for several years. I have come to the conviction that the argument is mostly semantic on your part, but whether or not that's accurate, in this case I used the shorthand term because two people earlier in the thread used it and I was responding to them.
I've been playing and watching sports my whole life, and one thing I know is that all minutes are not created equal. When the game is a blowout, the players on the losing team very often fail to maintain full effort. It's basic human nature. Even when that doesn't happen, the coach of the losing team in a blowout tends to rest his better players in favor of players with lesser talent. The players on the winning team sometimes let up as well, but either way when there's little game pressure, it's a lot easier for them to perform better and accumulate stats.
Looking at SkyBrickey's arbitrarily-chosen "14 game stretch," it's apparent that most of Caleb Foster's minutes during that stretch occurred during games in which there was little doubt about which team would win, and and also that in his play when the game outcome was in doubt, Foster didn't perform very well. Or at least he didn't score, shoot, or limit his turnovers very well. Despite poor shooting and a turnover, he rebounded very well and played pretty good defense against Houston, for example.
I agree with others here who are rooting for Caleb Foster to have a huge breakout as a junior. He's a likeable kid who is trying hard to get where he wants to be. My reason for posting the above was not to denigrate but rather to illustrate that we just don't know what we have with Caleb. In many ways he's more of a mystery than any of our other wing/guard options. Which is saying something when three of the others have never played college ball.
AGDukesky
Member
Nik got in about a minute later. He drove once to the basket and it looked like took some body contact but missed in close. USA leads 56-47 at the half. Anderson has hit some tough shots and scored 14 for Germany - guy will be a pro.
SkyBrickey
Member
Here's my biggest problem with your "analysis" on Caleb. You aren't willing to acknowledge that he was playing his best basketball at the end of the year and was ahead of Isaiah and Mason and Darren in the rotation for the tournament. That was Jon's opinion on his play. Not yours. Not mine. And Jon's opinion is the only one that matters.
The 14-game period for Caleb is not arbitrary. It's the final 14 games of the season. The kid had a clear confidence issue coming back from his injury and losing his starting job to Sion. It was openly talked about. Someone else - not me - identified this 14-game period as starting when he had his 10 points in 6 minutes outburst against Stanford and seemed to regain that mental confidence. His play greatly improved after this point - 50% from 3 the rest of the way as just one piece of evidence.
Yes, there are big questions about Caleb's game. But they are no bigger than Isaiah, Darren or any of the newcomers. We've seen Nolan Smith and Wendell Moore make big leaps in their junior years after mediocre sophomore seasons. Caleb was playing the most guard/wing minutes off the bench at the end of last season - and all the other guys ahead of him are gone. To spend energy putting a negative spin on his performance last season and negatively projecting his play for next season is doing a real disservice to the kid.
Last edited:
MChambers
Member
No mas, por favor.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Nik and Brandon McCoy, one of our recruiting targets, were definitely back of the rotation. But, as you say, there are a ton of really talented kids on this team, most of whom will likely be NBA players. Based on the fact that he was back-of-the-rotation for this team, it will be interesting to see where he fits on this year's team. Unless I am biased by what has been said about him, he does look like a connector-type, a guy who knows where the ball should move, how to get guys open, etc. He shoots smoothly with little hesitation, etc.
By, from what I watched of this tournament, I really want Smith Jr. He is the kind of bulldog PG we have not had in some time.