Duke Football 2025 — the Offseason Thread

[King of Defense]

Well assuming all the money gets put back into athletics, there is nothing really gained if the profile of your athletic program is not enhanced. Maryland has not improved its football or college basketball results since the move and remains strong in the same non-revenue sports but not really any better.

Maybe there are other benefits that are not obvious to me (better quality of students/professors or increased donations) that actually help the school outside of athletics. If not, Maryland seems like a slightly better Rutgers and an afterthought in the B1G…

Maybe, but when direct payments to athletes open up and it's the wild West out there, they'll be in better shape than a lot of schools.

I really worry that the SEC and B1G are going to start dominating every sport. I'd say "except men's basketball," but we all saw how this year went.

 

[duke79]

Maybe, but when direct payments to athletes open up and it's the wild West out there, they'll be in better shape than a lot of schools.

I really worry that the SEC and B1G are going to start dominating every sport. I'd say "except men's basketball," but we all saw how this year went.

Yep, the old phrase from Watergate is going to apply: "Follow the money".

 

[duke79]

Our ceiling is Stanford cerca early 2010s on my mind. Different eras of course, but if they can do it with a weaker overall sports brand and a marginally better academic brand (which is a double edged sword with their lofty standards for admission), I see no reason we can’t get there. Provided that Stanford doesn’t wake up tomorrow and remember that it likes football. And probably provided ND hits a soft patch that gives us the opportunity to make the pitch needed to really get it rolling with 4* recruits (top tier school + meaningful games).

The House case is the big variable here. If everyone’s budget is the same, I can see a case where we have a big competitive advantage with our degree (if everyone pays the same, you get the extra bonus of a good degree). However I can also see a big competitive disadvantage in having limited extra NIL opportunities to make more money.

It will be interesting to see where this shakes out. Though I don’t want this to go to an NFL model where most schools are 6-6 and David vs. Goliath match-ups aren’t a thing

I may be mis-interpreting what you're saying here, but you think Stanford has a weaker sports brand than Duke? Haven't they won the Director's Cup like 38 times in the past 39 years? Other than basketball, it's hard to think of any sports where Stanford has been consistently worse than Duke. Not sure I agree with your take either on the "marginally better academic brand". I've know several people who went to Stanford and not a single one considers Duke to be their academic peer. Most of them MIGHT concede that Harvard can compete with Stanford academically but other than the big "H", most Stanford people look down their nose at all the other colleges and universities.

 

[RoseBowl1942]

I may be mis-interpreting what you're saying here, but you think Stanford has a weaker sports brand than Duke? Haven't they won the Director's Cup like 38 times in the past 39 years? Other than basketball, it's hard to think of any sports where Stanford has been consistently worse than Duke. Not sure I agree with your take either on the "marginally better academic brand". I've know several people who went to Stanford and not a single one considers Duke to be their academic peer. Most of them MIGHT concede that Harvard can compete with Stanford academically but other than the big "H", most Stanford people look down their nose at all the other colleges and universities.

I think nationally for most recruits, they would argue Duke’s athletic brand is stronger. The average person doesn’t know or care about women’s volleyball rankings, college baseball, swimming, or the track team. They know MBB and CFB, and the rest are also-rans. That’s not how I think of it, but that’s most people. And that carries over into recruits

I think the delta between Stanford prestige and Duke prestige is not that big when you sample people that aren’t connected with either school. Obviously Stanford is more highly regarded, it’s no by a massive gulf

 

[King of Defense]

I may be mis-interpreting what you're saying here, but you think Stanford has a weaker sports brand than Duke? Haven't they won the Director's Cup like 38 times in the past 39 years? Other than basketball, it's hard to think of any sports where Stanford has been consistently worse than Duke. Not sure I agree with your take either on the "marginally better academic brand". I've know several people who went to Stanford and not a single one considers Duke to be their academic peer. Most of them MIGHT concede that Harvard can compete with Stanford academically but other than the big "H", most Stanford people look down their nose at all the other colleges and universities.

Duke has a better marching band.

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think nationally for most recruits, they would argue Duke’s athletic brand is stronger. The average person doesn’t know or care about women’s volleyball rankings, college baseball, swimming, or the track team. They know MBB and CFB, and the rest are also-rans. That’s not how I think of it, but that’s most people. And that carries over into recruits

I think the delta between Stanford prestige and Duke prestige is not that big when you sample people that aren’t connected with either school. Obviously Stanford is more highly regarded, it’s no by a massive gulf

I think you're mistaken.

Stanford is the strongest university on the West Coast. Most folks west of the Mississippi would list Stanford with the Ivies.

Duke is a magnificent university, but it isn't "that," unless you're talking about something other than prestige.

 

[ThirdDevil]

Yup. It's no accident at all that the heightened investment in the football program has come under 2 ADs with Notre Dame backgrounds. We may never reach ND's status, but Stanford has also shown (in the past) the ability for an elite university to compete at the highest levels of D-1.

And we saw how much that helped them in conference realignment.

 

[duke79]

Duke has a better marching band.

I'm not too sure Stanford would even admit to that. Doesn't Stanford pride itself on having an "alternative" marching band? No fancy uniforms or choreographed marching and song routines. Maybe a somewhat superior IQ "do what you want" attitude; I get the impression they look askance at the traditional marching bands that so many top football schools seem to take pride in.

 

[Mike Petrik]

I think you're mistaken.

Stanford is the strongest university on the West Coast. Most folks west of the Mississippi would list Stanford with the Ivies.

Duke is a magnificent university, but it isn't "that," unless you're talking about something other than prestige.

Most folks west of the Mississippi couldn't recite 5 members of the Ivies, and those that try would sometimes include Stanford. And Duke. And Berkeley. Most people are not college graduates, and even most college graduates are uninterested and unknowledgeable about matters of college prestige.
In any case, I agree with you that Duke is not Stanford, but I also agree with Rosebowl that the gulf, while considerable, is no massive.

 

[Mike Petrik]

And we saw how much that helped them in conference realignment.

True, but the key word is "past," and if Stanford was Duke in roundball the outcome might well have been different.

 

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Most folks west of the Mississippi couldn't recite 5 members of the Ivies, and those that try would sometimes include Stanford. And Duke. And Berkeley. Most people are not college graduates, and even most college graduates are uninterested and unknowledgeable about matters of college prestige.

I was responding to the comment about branding. I agree that awareness of the population doesn't necessarily reflect reality. But that Stanford's "brand" is much more commonly known on the West Coast than Duke is.

 

[luvdahops]

Most folks west of the Mississippi couldn't recite 5 members of the Ivies, and those that try would sometimes include Stanford. And Duke. And Berkeley. Most people are not college graduates, and even most college graduates are uninterested and unknowledgeable about matters of college prestige.
In any case, I agree with you that Duke is not Stanford, but I also agree with Rosebowl that the gulf, while considerable, is no massive.

Fair points but based on experience, I think duke79 is correct in saying that Stanford grads (and administrators IMHO) do not consider Duke to be a peer institution academically. Broader public perception may say otherwise, but most members of the Stanford community believe their university is essentially peerless, and would only cop to the Big 3 Ivies and maybe MIT if pressed.

 

[AGDukesky]

Duke has a better marching band.

Definitely tackles better than Stanford

 

[HoKogan]

I always thought Duke and Stanford were considered in the same tier of academic elite schools that were not Ivies, like Johns Hopkins and Univ of Chicago. Its not like any old schlub can get in to them.

 

[Papa John]

Fair points but based on experience, I think duke79 is correct in saying that Stanford grads (and administrators IMHO) do not consider Duke to be a peer institution academically. Broader public perception may say otherwise, but most members of the Stanford community believe their university is essentially peerless, and would only cop to the Big 3 Ivies and maybe MIT if pressed.

So they're unabashedly arrogant... noted.

 

[Maged]

I do a lot of applicant interviewing for Duke and frankly, when an applicant says their first choice is Stanford, I figure, we're going to lose that one if he/she is accepted there.

 

[CameronBornAndBred]

I do a lot of applicant interviewing for Duke and frankly, when an applicant says their first choice is Stanford, I figure, we're going to lose that one if he/she is accepted there.

Makes sense. Acceptance rate at Stanford is only 3.6 % compared to Duke's lofty 4.8%.

 

[sagegrouse]

Fair points but based on experience, I think duke79 is correct in saying that Stanford grads (and administrators IMHO) do not consider Duke to be a peer institution academically. Broader public perception may say otherwise, but most members of the Stanford community believe their university is essentially peerless, and would only cop to the Big 3 Ivies and maybe MIT if pressed.

That's the Stanford community. The educated general public view Duke as an outstanding an academic institution with a strong sports brand.

 

[arnie]

I was responding to the comment about branding. I agree that awareness of the population doesn't necessarily reflect reality. But that Stanford's "brand" is much more commonly known on the West Coast than Duke is.

Maybe White Lotus has enhanced our reputation

 

[Skydog]

US News & World Report has Stanford ranked 4th and Duke ranked 7th. Those rankings probably aren’t that different than the public perception. Duke might be a little bit lower in public perception then 7th but likely in the top 15 if assigned a rank by an average person on the street with, say, a college degree. That is my impression of the public’s perception at least.