Duke Football 2024

No idea how the state will enforce and punishments for lack of compliance, but the law passed was targeted at everyone, including Stanford and USC. Reportedly the second state to pass this law behind Maryland. Article below

I would expect Duke to be resistant to any such ban, and certain other selective private schools (Dartmouth and Notre Dame come immediately to mind) to fight something like that to the death. Legacy admissions are a convenient bogeyman but if handled properly (i.e. no special breaks to legacy applicants but it can break ties in their favor) are a perfectly legitimate and often critical part of a private university's brand.
 
I would expect Duke to be resistant to any such ban, and certain other selective private schools (Dartmouth and Notre Dame come immediately to mind) to fight something like that to the death. Legacy admissions are a convenient bogeyman but if handled properly (i.e. no special breaks to legacy applicants but it can break ties in their favor) are a perfectly legitimate and often critical part of a private university's brand.
I study higher ed as a profession, and I disagree. Isn't "breaking a tie" a special break? Duke would, I am sure, fight it because it is in its best interest in a prestige game, but the system also reinforces privilege (and many children of Duke alumni are already privileged).

On enforcement, there is no real mechanism in the current CA law (they just have to admit it), but different states have different options, including because states have authorization roles for private institutions. NY's Board of Regents has a great deal of power over private higher ed in the state. The biggest lever, though, is funding. A number of states have scholarship and other funding programs that students can use at private schools. Schools that consider legacy in admissions could be barred from them. In 2020, states provided private colleges with roughly $2.7 billion dollars (3% of state funding to higher ed), mostly through student aid programs. An earlier version of the CA bill would have cut off access to such funds.
 
Fascinating discussion, but what does it have to do with this year's football program. Can it be moved elsewhere?
Not much at this point, but a pile of lawyers fighting such a law could make the case that preference in admissions to athletes should also be banned by states. Then it would all become about football and any state putting such a law on the books would immediately find their teams at a severe disadvantage.
 
I study higher ed as a profession, and I disagree. Isn't "breaking a tie" a special break? Duke would, I am sure, fight it because it is in its best interest in a prestige game, but the system also reinforces privilege (and many children of Duke alumni are already privileged).

On enforcement, there is no real mechanism in the current CA law (they just have to admit it), but different states have different options, including because states have authorization roles for private institutions. NY's Board of Regents has a great deal of power over private higher ed in the state. The biggest lever, though, is funding. A number of states have scholarship and other funding programs that students can use at private schools. Schools that consider legacy in admissions could be barred from them. In 2020, states provided private colleges with roughly $2.7 billion dollars (3% of state funding to higher ed), mostly through student aid programs. An earlier version of the CA bill would have cut off access to such funds.
In fact, the new Cal law applies only to schools that benefit from the CalGrant scholarship program. It strikes me that the relationship to state funding might be legally required in order to address freedom of association concerns. I'm just speculating here because I've not researched it. I do know that there are a few colleges that refuse to accept federal funding in order to avoid potentially onerous or even what they see as invidious requirements attached to such funding.
 
If it makes you feel better, the benefit of alumni status on admissions is probably gone in the next decade. California just banned it and donor preference for all schools in the state (inclining private institutions) this week. So it will all be new Duke soon
My side comment about my son had more to do with the crazy high admission standards in this era than any personal disappointment as an alum in his particular outcome. Like I said, his unweighted GPA was 3.95 and weighted 5.2. He had something like 10 APs with all 5s (8) and 4s (2). 1490 SAT. He would have been a shoo-in coming out of high school in '89 (and frankly, probably in '93 or '94). I know it's not really comparing apples and oranges to compare SAT scores from the late '80s and early '90s to today's scores, and I know that they had something like 11k applications for the Class of '97 (and I assume fewer than that for the Class of '94) versus 60k or 70k for the class of 2027. But admissions standards are insane these days. I have another son going through the process this year and it's just absolutely crazy what a "good" application looks like any more.
 
My side comment about my son had more to do with the crazy high admission standards in this era than any personal disappointment as an alum in his particular outcome. Like I said, his unweighted GPA was 3.95 and weighted 5.2. He had something like 10 APs with all 5s (8) and 4s (2). 1490 SAT. He would have been a shoo-in coming out of high school in '89 (and frankly, probably in '93 or '94). I know it's not really comparing apples and oranges to compare SAT scores from the late '80s and early '90s to today's scores, and I know that they had something like 11k applications for the Class of '97 (and I assume fewer than that for the Class of '94) versus 60k or 70k for the class of 2027. But admissions standards are insane these days. I have another son going through the process this year and it's just absolutely crazy what a "good" application looks like any more.
Did not mean any offense at all, I just noticed you were an alum dealing with admissions and saw the article so thought I’d bring up. It’s absolutely insane how difficult it is to get in today. Given the stats and how hard your son must have worked to get them, hoping he ended up somewhere good as well (as long as that place isn’t UNC!)
 
My side comment about my son had more to do with the crazy high admission standards in this era than any personal disappointment as an alum in his particular outcome. Like I said, his unweighted GPA was 3.95 and weighted 5.2. He had something like 10 APs with all 5s (8) and 4s (2). 1490 SAT. He would have been a shoo-in coming out of high school in '89 (and frankly, probably in '93 or '94). I know it's not really comparing apples and oranges to compare SAT scores from the late '80s and early '90s to today's scores, and I know that they had something like 11k applications for the Class of '97 (and I assume fewer than that for the Class of '94) versus 60k or 70k for the class of 2027. But admissions standards are insane these days. I have another son going through the process this year and it's just absolutely crazy what a "good" application looks like any more.
Yep, an application is a lottery ticket now (especially if you don't apply early decision). I don't think it's commonly understood how large the pool of qualified applicants has become compared to the number of slots available.
 
Well, it's crazy because Duke does not yet require SAT scores, which were suspended during Covid. Therefore, those who submit optional scores all have good ones. Grades are high everywhere. Early admission probably helps because Duke, UPenn and probably others accept 1/2 of class this way.

Good luck!
 
Yep, an application is a lottery ticket now (especially if you don't apply early decision). I don't think it's commonly understood how large the pool of qualified applicants has become compared to the number of slots available.
At least in theory, the SAT should help adjust and give us a sense of the pool. If you use 1500+ as a demarcation line, there are ~21,000 kids annually that achieve this score. SAT is obviously far from the only factor, but assuming 90-95% of this population also are top academic performers (think top 5-10% of class) you get ~19,000 kids.

Ultimately getting into Duke specifically for anyone is challenging. You just have to hope at this point that by “shot-gunning” to the top schools, you will make it into at least 1 (which of course, is the max you can actually attend).

Note for reference, there are ~20,000 undergrad spots per class in the Ivy+Stanford+MIT+Duke+Chicago. Counting other top schools like Georgetown, Hopkins, NW, Vandy, ND, etc. plus the liberal arts schools, my hope for top performing kids today (at least based on standardized tests) is that everyone in this range will have at least 1 option if the kid wants to pursue that route (not all do). Thats my hope at least for the youth of today
 
Yep, an application is a lottery ticket now (especially if you don't apply early decision). I don't think it's commonly understood how large the pool of qualified applicants has become compared to the number of slots available.
Yeah the very top schools have acceptance rates of five percent or so. So many of those applicants are fully qualified
 
At least in theory, the SAT should help adjust and give us a sense of the pool. If you use 1500+ as a demarcation line, there are ~21,000 kids annually that achieve this score. SAT is obviously far from the only factor, but assuming 90-95% of this population also are top academic performers (think top 5-10% of class) you get ~19,000 kids.

Ultimately getting into Duke specifically for anyone is challenging. You just have to hope at this point that by “shot-gunning” to the top schools, you will make it into at least 1 (which of course, is the max you can actually attend).

Note for reference, there are ~20,000 undergrad spots per class in the Ivy+Stanford+MIT+Duke+Chicago. Counting other top schools like Georgetown, Hopkins, NW, Vandy, ND, etc. plus the liberal arts schools, my hope for top performing kids today (at least based on standardized tests) is that everyone in this range will have at least 1 option if the kid wants to pursue that route (not all do). Thats my hope at least for the youth of today
All good points, and I'd also note that it is exceedingly difficult to compare average SAT admission scores longitudinally. Not only are the tests periodically re-normed (generally making them a bit easier), but super-scoring has changed everything. One cannot compare an SAT score of a test taken one time to the combined highest scores of each test part taken several times.
 
Yeah the very top schools have acceptance rates of five percent or so. So many of those applicants are fully qualified
My good friend's son applied last year to a number of the NESCAC schools. Really bright kid from a very good suburban public high school. Parents went to a very good school but he didn't want to go there. We did the math. As someone without a hook (non-athlete, non-legacy, no ethnic diversity, major metro-area so no geographic diversity), his odds of getting into many of these schools were virtually zero, because they field almost as many sports teams as bigger schools (and if they have football, that is a huge number of male seats) but have a much smaller overall population (often 2k or less) so that leaves almost no seats.

Make of that what you wish regarding programs for legacies, athletes, minorities, etc. These schools were never easy to get into, but now they are almost impossible. Bigger schools have a little more flexibility but that doesn't make them any easier. Applicants are going up yet the size of the schools is basically staying the same. Hence why some previously less desirable schools have become much "hotter."
 
Note for reference, there are ~20,000 undergrad spots per class in the Ivy+Stanford+MIT+Duke+Chicago. Counting other top schools like Georgetown, Hopkins, NW, Vandy, ND, etc. plus the liberal arts schools, my hope for top performing kids today (at least based on standardized tests) is that everyone in this range will have at least 1 option if the kid wants to pursue that route (not all do). Thats my hope at least for the youth of today
Unfortunately, I don't think that is the case.

My daughter had a 1560 SAT, IB diploma, double-digit AP courses, and four years of straight A's. Two years ago she applied to 8 schools ranked at various places in the top 40 (including Duke) and got into none of them. Her best friend had similar credentials, applied to a similar number of similar schools, and got into no schools except her home state schools. I know several other stories with students who had 1550+ SATs and great grades from that same year who experienced the same thing.

My daughter at least got into two colleges ranked in the 40s, but at her chosen school she feels like she is mostly surrounded by people who do not care about their education very much, which frequently disheartens her. (She's making the best of it.)

My son is a senior and a similarly excellent student. He is finding it hard to get motivated to do the work to apply to a number of top schools in no small part because of what his sister experienced. When he asked me point-blank what his chances of getting into a top school are, I had to be honest with him: you'd better apply somewhere early and hope to get really, really lucky.
 
I graduated in 1994. When I arrived at Duke in August 1990, kegs were still completely unregulated. Spring semester my freshman year was when the policy of "Thursday night kegs on West, Friday night kegs on East, Saturday night kegs everywhere" was implemented. Reynolds Price was my teacher for Milton. I remember that speech, but I never felt like he cast aspersions on any particular student or group of students at the time. Anyway, I'm sure every Duke graduating class since 1985 (or whenever the drinking age in North Carolina moved from 18 to 21) has felt like the academic focus and standards were much greater for the classes coming in behind them. As a senior in spring of 1994 taking Intro to Cultural Anthropology with a bunch of freshmen, it definitely felt that way to me. I'm certain, that the intra-quartile range for SAT scores was significantly higher for the Class of '97 than it was for my class (incidentally, my son was rejected last year with 3.95 at an extremely large and rigorous public high school and 1490). We used to refer to ourselves as "old Duke" and them as "f-cking new Duke."
+1 from a fellow 1994 grad with a kid with great grades and SAT scores who applied early decision and was rejected. She loves Michigan though so it worked out in the end. And at our reunion this spring we definitely remembered how to drink like it was 1994!
 
I'm grabbing this quote from the game thread and putting it here since it's more fitting as a generic subject.

If he (Murphy) has any pro aspirations whatsoever, he would have to realize that some sort of mobility is a necessity for a QB at that level. Maybe he prefers not to run ... but I have to believe he realizes that sometimes he would have to run.

MM has not had a single game with positive yardage yet. The closest he got was against Elon with zero, So far his rushing totals equal 54 yards in the wrong direction.
 
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