2024 U.S. Presidential election

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Skydog said:
The “vote 10 times” is an exaggeration for effect but the statement is also more than that - it’s blatant lying. She says Democrats are promoting cheating in elections - they are not. She then says Dems have made it legal to cheat in elections- they have not.

I believe Wavedukefans post was just a case of misunderstanding. But Mrs. Musk’s post wasn’t just sarcasm, it was a deliberate broadcast of misinformation and part of a massive propaganda campaign to discredit the validity of US elections. How can anyone not see this? Sometimes I feel like I’m the only sane person left on the planet.
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Gaslighting a population creates a population with a whole lot of gaslit individuals, hopefully no a majority.

There are those of us who see right through it.
 
CrazyNotCrazie said:
The combination of this and your patronizing post towards me just above (I appreciate the original poster who I responded to admitting he could have been more clear in his point - not sure why you had to get involved) it is making me question your judgment rather than you questioning all of ours.

We are talking about people who believed that Haitians in Springfield, Ohio are eating cats and dogs and brought chaos to that poor little town. Politicians and those speaking on their behalf should say what they mean. Full stop. That is how the world worked until 10 years ago. Apparently that was too stuffy and uptight for some people. But it worked for most of us, as well as most of the rest of the world. This politics of anger, distrust, etc. is completely out of control and has destroyed this nation. And there is no whatabout about it. A few opportunistic, power hungry lunatics are taking advantage of a lot of people out there. So sad.

But you go ahead rationalizing it. What do we know. We're just melodramatic snowflakes with TDS.
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@CrazyNotCrazie. I am with you most of the time, I would suggest we not use hyperbolic rhetoric. It frustrates and angers me to hear TFG say the country or this or that city have been “destroyed” by the democrats. There is no destruction. Things still exist and the economy is humming along. Seattle and Minneapolis haven’t been burned to the ground.

Overheated argument, I contend, has not destroyed our nation.
 
Skydog said:
The “vote 10 times” is an exaggeration for effect but the statement is also more than that - it’s blatant lying. She says Democrats are promoting cheating in elections - they are not. She then says Dems have made it legal to cheat in elections- they have not.

I believe Wavedukefans post was just a case of misunderstanding. But Mrs. Musk’s post wasn’t just sarcasm, it was a deliberate broadcast of misinformation and part of a massive propaganda campaign to discredit the validity of US elections. How can anyone not see this? Sometimes I feel like I’m the only sane person left on the planet.
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I understand that it is blatant misinformation. As I said earlier, she is broadcasting HER BELIEF (not a fact) that the Democratic party encourages cheating in elections. She is wrong. But she probably believes that she is right.

To be clear, I don't agree with any part of her post in any way. I took it as satire rather than as advice, but by any objective measure it qualifies as gaslighting, at best.

Would we all be better off if she hadn't posted this at all? I think so, yes.
 
rsvman said:
I understand that it is blatant misinformation. As I said earlier, she is broadcasting HER BELIEF (not a fact) that the Democratic party encourages cheating in elections. She is wrong. But she probably believes that she is right.

To be clear, I don't agree with any part of her post in any way. I took it as satire rather than as advice, but by any objective measure it qualifies as gaslighting, at best.

Would we all be better off if she hadn't posted this at all? I think so, yes.
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My question (and I’m not arguing, just genuinely questioning) is why would a smart, educated person think that the Dems encourage voter fraud? It is an undisputed fact that over 50 supposed voter fraud cases have been tried in our courts in front of both conservative and liberal judges and ALL of them were thrown out. And there has literally not been a single case of significant DEM sponsored voter fraud found in the US in decades. She doesn’t have to trust CNN - neutral news sources like AP and Reuters all report what I said above. So tell me, anyone, how does a privileged smart person with more access to objective news than almost anyone come to actually believe such completely unsupported and dangerous nonsense? Almost feels like there must be something in it for them, right?
 
rsvman said:
This is not at all what I meant. I meant that if somebody posts 'he lies, she lies,' imagining that it is possible that the person who posted that phrase isn't necessarily trying to say that the two candidates are equivalent. He/she MAY believe that, sure; but it is also possible that he/she doesn't believe that.

That's what I meant when I said I don't want to leap to the worst possible assumptions.
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I definitely should have thought that one out before I posted.
I'm decent about catching it.i was more or less was alluding to that nothing ground breaking has changed both sides claim the other is doing x and y.
Not that I'm leaning towards believing any thing from either.i wasn't trying to rationalize any of it.
I should have added a lot of context as a example to bring clarity to what I was implying. Imperfection at it's finest.
Am I a maga ? Certainly not. Am I a Democrat no.
Do I think DJT is good for the country no.
I think Harris is the lesser of two evils.
If that makes sense. I don't agree with a lot of her policy or visions aswell. But I like some .
If that explains where I'm at with the election.
I'm not undecided so to speak .I won't give one candidate a vote. I will reluctantly give the other a vote most likely. The other option is go fishing while everyone else is voting .
 
Skydog said:
My question (and I’m not arguing, just genuinely questioning) is why would a smart, educated person think that the Dems encourage voter fraud? It is an undisputed fact that over 50 supposed voter fraud cases have been tried in our courts in front of both conservative and liberal judges and ALL of them were thrown out. And there has literally not been a single case of significant DEM sponsored voter fraud found in the US in decades. She doesn’t have to trust CNN - neutral news sources like AP and Reuters all report what I said above. So tell me, anyone, how does a privileged smart person with more access to objective news than almost anyone come to actually believe such completely unsupported and dangerous nonsense? Almost feels like there must be something in it for them, right?
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Whether Mrs Musk believes that Democrats are cheating or not, I'm sure she loves that rush of validation from the thousands and thousands of cult members when she posts something like this. All those likes and retweets are quite marvelous. She feels special, much more than just Elon's mother. 🙃
 
NYT analysis of Trump speeches shows mental decline.

An average rally speech...lasts 82 minutes this election cycle, nearly double the 45 minutes he averaged in 2016
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among the potential signs of cognitive change are that he curses 69 percent more in speeches than he did in 2016
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However,
James Pennebaker, a social psychologist at the University of Texas at Austin, analyzed 35 Trump interviews from 2015 to 2024...said Trump has relied on unusually simple words and sentence structures going back to the days before he was president, suggesting he has simply always been an incredibly simplistic thinker.

One analytic metric he used—which tends to place presidential candidates in the 60 to 70 range—placed Trump speeches at 10 to 24.

“I can’t tell you how staggering this is,” he told Stat News. “He does not think in a complex way at all.”
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I think this is the real reason Vance wants to shut down universities in this country
 
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dudog84 said:
Yeah, it really is simple. Voter ID already exists. Sheesh.
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In most states, yes. But there are either 14 or 15 where it's not and I've never seen Democrats supportive of adding such laws. That's just one example. There are many more. That is why many folks, Republicans especially think that Democrats favor or even engage in election fraud.

Now keep in mind the question is "why would a smart person think this", not why I think it and certainly not whether it is true or not. I'm giving reasons folks might feel the way they feel.
 
Sounds like Walz handled his Fox News appearance pretty well.

Walz also repeated his claim that Trump would go further by signing an “outright nationwide ban.” Questions have been raised over how far Trump could implement policies outlined in Project 2025 but the Republican presidential candidate has stated he would veto any such ban.

“Are you calling that a flat out lie?” Bream asked Walz.

“Yes, of course. And Senator Vance has in the past said so too,” Walz responded.
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He was on this morning

The full interview is not up on youtube yet.
 
PackMan97 said:
In most states, yes. But there are either 14 or 15 where it's not and I've never seen Democrats supportive of adding such laws. That's just one example. There are many more. That is why many folks, Republicans especially think that Democrats favor or even engage in election fraud.

Now keep in mind the question is "why would a smart person think this", not why I think it and certainly not whether it is true or not. I'm giving reasons folks might feel the way they feel.
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Please provide specifics. I'll make it easy on you, just concentrate on the swing states where it might matter. Warning: I know the answer.

And what's this "There are many more."? That's quite the declarative statement. Please provide specifics if you're going to make such a statement.
 
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PackMan97 said:
Simple. Democrats oppose any and all election security laws, even common sense ones like voter ID.
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“Any and all”? That is quite the generalization. Prove it. Lame generalizations don’t fly around here.

Voter fraud is like killer migrants, ever having their genders changed, and other issues that Republicans get obsessed about when they are nothingburgers. Blame someone else for your problems. And again, people listen and thus become obsessed. I am fairly sure that most cases of voter fraud were actually by Republicans.

Trump and his people run a master class in marketing. If only they were using this to help people.
 
PackMan97 said:
In most states, yes. But there are either 14 or 15 where it's not and I've never seen Democrats supportive of adding such laws. That's just one example. There are many more. That is why many folks, Republicans especially think that Democrats favor or even engage in election fraud.

Now keep in mind the question is "why would a smart person think this", not why I think it and certainly not whether it is true or not. I'm giving reasons folks might feel the way they feel.
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Lots of studies out there that new voter id requirements disproportionately effect minorities and young people who tend to vote.........Democrat.

Also, no evidence at all found of any material level of voter fraud. And believe me, Republicans have been searching hard for years. The onesie and twosie voter fraud identified has been just as likely, or more likely, to be Republican.

No undocumented immigrant is going to risk getting in big trouble by attempting to vote - none.
 
PackMan97 said:
Simple. Democrats oppose any and all election security laws, even common sense ones like voter ID.
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Dems oppose all voter security laws? That is 100% false. DEM dominated boards do routine purges of voter registration rolls to weed out duplicates, the deceased, voters who have moved, etc. and they pass laws and create registration check procedures to prevent voters from voting more than once, in the wrong district, or otherwise illegally. So yes, most DEMs do fight actual voter fraud wherever they find it.

What is true is that many DEMs opposed requiring an ID because a) significant voter fraud is extremely rare and even the rare case (like local GOP in eastern NC county) that does exist would not be prevented by an ID law and b) minorities, poor people and the elderly are less likely to have IDs. They know GOP sponsored ID laws are created to make it harder for these non-GOP leaning groups to vote, not to stop non-existent election fraud.
 
CrazyNotCrazie said:
“Any and all”? That is quite the generalization. Prove it. Lame generalizations don’t fly around here.

Voter fraud is like killer migrants, ever having their genders changed, and other issues that Republicans get obsessed about when they are nothingburgers. Blame someone else for your problems. And again, people listen and thus become obsessed. I am fairly sure that most cases of voter fraud were actually by Republicans.

Trump and his people run a master class in marketing. If only they were using this to help people.
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There's a case right now in Michigan where 7 people tried to cast both an absentee ballot and an in-person ballot in a primary earlier this year. It's in a heavily-leaning Republican district.

The (Republican) local prosecutor decided not to pursue an investigation. The (Democratic) state Attorney General is now pursuing an investigation.

So which party is tougher on election fraud?
 
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