2024 U.S. Presidential election

Bostondevil said:
Is the dockworkers strike the October Surprise that hands Trump victory? At the heart of the strike is the fact that automation has taken over many of the jobs formerly done by humans. Fewer dockworkers are necessary.
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Sure the guy that hates unions, paying overtime or paying any wages and has utter contempt for the working class is going to be their savior. Right now it appears the October surprise is everything hitting at once. Helene disaster recovery, the dock strike, the middle east problems, its all coming to a head now.
As for the debate tonight, I don't think that many people will care. Vance is going to give a bunch of canned responses, he'll ignore any tough questions by responding with more MAGA propaganda and lies. He won't get rattled like Trump because he has no intent in actually engaging in a debate, just lots of gish gallop and reverse gish gallop. How Walz responds to that, not sure. How would you debate someone who has no interest in telling the truth, spreading bad faith arguments and lies and interrupting you at every turn. It reminds me on how all the right wing media pundits want to "debate" people they disagree with, on their own show or platform. They don't want to debate, they just want to frustrate and humiliate you and the best course of action is to not participate.
 
Kdogg said:
I don't know he's been doing fine with it on the campaign trail. Let's see what they can mine from the dregs of 4chan and Twitter for tonight.
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It's gotten so insane that maybe on live TV in front of millions D will have a dog/cat/pet moment:

"The Democrats: they're drinking the blood of aborted babies! They're doing it in the basements of pizza parlors around the country!"

Or is that too Q and not enough 4chan?
 
Furniture said:
When someone that has done 100+ interviews it stands to reason they are more practiced at keeping a straight face while lying than someone that has only done about 10. I have seen a couple of JDs but my only experience of Walz was his joint interview with Harris. During that interview he was asked about the criticism of his military record. Imho he didn’t give a great answer and seemed very nervous.
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Walz was first elected to Congress in 2006, and was elected Governor in 2019.

He's done lots and lots of interviews. And debates. He may or may not be polished and/or a great debater, but at this point, that's not lack of experience or practice. It just him being who he is.
 
To the election jumble, NY Times now reporting that Iran is preparing to strike Israel. Here's hoping it's an ultra limited operation intended to save face rather than some full blown attack, which I think would be ill advised. And bad for everyone.
Why all these guys can't go out for a couple of beers and settle things is beyond me.
 
BandAlum83 said:
It's gotten so insane that maybe on live TV in front of millions D will have a dog/cat/pet moment:

"The Democrats: they're drinking the blood of aborted babies! They're doing it in the basements of pizza parlors around the country!"

Or is that too Q and not enough 4chan?
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Vance is much more 4chan than Q. I’d expect more pseudo science than conspiracy. “The adrenal glands of incubating females secrete a chemical that leads to the production of endorphins, which assists with species propagation.”
 
HoKogan said:
Sure the guy that hates unions, paying overtime or paying any wages and has utter contempt for the working class is going to be their savior. Right now it appears the October surprise is everything hitting at once. Helene disaster recovery, the dock strike, the middle east problems, its all coming to a head now.
As for the debate tonight, I don't think that many people will care. Vance is going to give a bunch of canned responses, he'll ignore any tough questions by responding with more MAGA propaganda and lies. He won't get rattled like Trump because he has no intent in actually engaging in a debate, just lots of gish gallop and reverse gish gallop. How Walz responds to that, not sure. How would you debate someone who has no interest in telling the truth, spreading bad faith arguments and lies and interrupting you at every turn. It reminds me on how all the right wing media pundits want to "debate" people they disagree with, on their own show or platform. They don't want to debate, they just want to frustrate and humiliate you and the best course of action is to not participate.
Click to expand...

Trump is like the frat brother in robes slapping Kevin Bacon in the rear with a paddle.
 
Bostondevil said:
Is the dockworkers strike the October Surprise that hands Trump victory? At the heart of the strike is the fact that automation has taken over many of the jobs formerly done by humans. Fewer dockworkers are necessary.
Click to expand...
Wavedukefans70,
How much automation is occurring on the east coast? I know the ILA has fought it consistently and I thought that they have been pretty successful at minimizing the impacts.
 
Chicago 1995 said:
Walz was first elected to Congress in 2006, and was elected Governor in 2019.

He's done lots and lots of interviews. And debates. He may or may not be polished and/or a great debater, but at this point, that's not lack of experience or practice. It just him being who he is.
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Inspired by your answer I looked up a previous debate. Not bad at all. I feel better after listening to it. If anyone has the time a link is provided below.

www.c-span.org

Minnesota Gubernatorial Debate

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz (D) and Scott Jensen, his Republican challenger in the state's 2022 governor race, participated in a debate hosted by KTTC-TV in Rochester, Minnesota. During the debate, the candidates were asked questions on topics including the 2020 George Floyd protests, race...
www.c-span.org www.c-span.org
 
ryetales said:
Wavedukefans70,
How much automation is occurring on the east coast? I know the ILA has fought it consistently and I thought that they have been pretty successful at minimizing the impacts.
Click to expand...

To clarify - I don't know how many jobs have been lost already. I should have said automation is able to take over many of the jobs formerly done by humans. Fewer dockworkers are necessary now even if there are a bunch of them still doing those jobs. They are fighting for the continued existence of such jobs. They might win some guarantees this time but it's not going to last long term.
 
Bostondevil said:
To clarify - I don't know how many jobs have been lost already. I should have said automation is able to take over many of the jobs formerly done by humans. Fewer dockworkers are necessary now even if there are a bunch of them still doing those jobs. They are fighting for the continued existence of such jobs. They might win some guarantees this time but it's not going to last long term.
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I agree. Jobs moving around shipping containers are going away.

Honestly, the best argument is one of national security. These jobs should be kept manual in the event of a wide scale cyber attack or EMP, the US can still get the work done. Once they get automated and anything happens to make the automation not work we are up the proverbial estuary without means of locomotion. (and I desperately hope someone gets the reference)
 
Bostondevil said:
It certainly could be. If it's not resolved quickly, I could see it dragging on for months. If it drags on for months, the economy won't recover quickly either. Not the place for speculation on this issue, but I do wonder what happens if Trump is handed an economy in freefall.
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The U.S. will go bankrupt. No tariff money coming in. ;)
 
PackMan97 said:
I agree. Jobs moving around shipping containers are going away.

Honestly, the best argument is one of national security. These jobs should be kept manual in the event of a wide scale cyber attack or EMP, the US can still get the work done. Once they get automated and anything happens to make the automation not work we are up the proverbial estuary without means of locomotion. (and I desperately hope someone gets the reference)
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Good point - but you do realize that what you are suggesting is government involvement? Companies will have to be incentivized and/or subsidized with taxpayer money to keep these workers on.
 
Matches said:
Vance is much more 4chan than Q. I’d expect more pseudo science than conspiracy. “The adrenal glands of incubating females secrete a chemical that leads to the production of endorphins, which assists with species propagation.”
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You're not the 1st to describe him that way and you're not wrong either
 
Matches said:
Vance is much more 4chan than Q. I’d expect more pseudo science than conspiracy. “The adrenal glands of incubating females secrete a chemical that leads to the production of endorphins, which assists with species propagation.”
Click to expand...

Sorta like an actual legitimate rape shuts the whole thing down and pregnancy is impossible?


Sorry, edited.

theweek.com

'Rape can't cause pregnancy': A brief history of Todd Akin's bogus theory

The embattled Akin believed (at least until 48 hours ago) that women can't get pregnant from rape. As bizarre as that theory is, he's hardly the first to spout it
theweek.com theweek.com
 
HoKogan said:
he has no intent in actually engaging in a debate, just lots of gish gallop and reverse gish gallop.
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What is a reverse Gish gallop? Is that where you rapid-fire a series of truths that are so hard to refute that your opponent is left dumbfounded at the stunning display of honesty?
 
JasonEvans said:
What is a reverse Gish gallop? Is that where you rapid-fire a series of truths that are so hard to refute that your opponent is left dumbfounded at the stunning display of honesty?
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More or less. Or when the opponent refutes the outlandish claims but maybe gets a detail wrong, then the instigator seizes on the detail to try to invalidate the entire response. There's a video series on Youtube called the alt right playbook that goes over this and other tactics they employ.
 
ryetales said:
Wavedukefans70,
How much automation is occurring on the east coast? I know the ILA has fought it consistently and I thought that they have been pretty successful at minimizing the impacts.
Click to expand...
It hasn't made it's way quite yet to equipment. Gates are semi automatic. They still have to be confirmed by humans .70% of the equipment is a software install away from being automated. It's in the gulf ports to a degree. West coast has lost 1000 jobs.
This is a prevent defense strike.
They had been offered 50% .I believe it's more about automation.
To be honest even non union employees are paid fairly well. I was above 40 a hr .if i agreed to run ship to shore it would have been above 50 a hr.trainees start at 26 a hr.
If you wanted to know.
That's a great wage for non union non educated employment.
Union employees make the same give or take.both have great benifits.
I have been worried about automation for a decade .
 
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