2024-2025 Men’s Basketball Season: General Offseason Discussion

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SkyBrickey said:
So 9 out of the 12 Select Team participants voted that a 17 year-old was their best player? It's pretty mind-blowing.
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I mean, it is not like the select team included multiple guys who are starters for their NBA teams with scoring averages in the mid-upper teens in the league.

Oh, wait...
 
JasonEvans said:
I mean, it is not like the select team included multiple guys who are starters for their NBA teams with scoring averages in the mid-upper teens in the league.

Oh, wait...
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Nice! I know I can get carried away with my fandom sometimes, but if Khaman Maluach is channeling late-freshman year Williams and Lively rim protection and rebounding by the end of the season - and everyone stays healthy - I can't imagine we're not the best team in the country.

Doesn't mean we will win it all. But there are enough very talented guys in the backcourt and on the wing and Cooper is a budding superstar, that if we get elite Center play out of Maluach, we will be the team to beat.

Cooper is good enough to carry an average team to the Final Four - our roster is way beyond average.

Just one homer's opinion. Will be a very fun season.
 
phaedrus said:
Both Foster and Proctor need to improve their offensive outputs substantially for us to have the season we expect, so it's really a question of who is more likely to do so, rather than who has been better so far. Proctor has had better counting stats, but Foster will get far more usage than last year as the presumptive starting off-guard, and he'll need to make it count. Proctor may need to be more aggressive (depending who else steps up) and can't disappear every so often like he has had a tendency to do.


Cooper is going to play one position - in both college and in the NBA - and it's the "big wing" position. Whether you want to call it the "3" or "4" will just depend on whether we have one taller person on the court or two, but it won't much affect his offense. Few players are slotted into "small forward" or "power forward" anymore (what is Jayson Tatum? Lebron James? Brandon Ingram? Paul George? Kevin Durant? Karl Malone ain't walking through that door), and Cooper is a prototypical "forward".
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You know how we say, "But there's only one ball." Last year, for Tyrese and Caleb there was only a tiny fraction of a ball available, given the shooting of McCain and Roach. . I believe, with greater opportunities, there will be much more scoring from both Proctor and Foster.
 
SkyBrickey said:
Azz, maybe you missed Cooper's putback and-one over the top of Bam Abedayo??

And you think Cooper can't (or shouldn't) cover ACC 4s, most of whom these days are playing outside the lane and launching 3s?

Let's look at it this way. What ACC 4 do you think Cooper would have any difficulty covering?

Not UNC's guys for sure. They will either start the 6-9, 215 Jaelyn Withers who is far from a "banger" or the 6-7 Cade Tyson who may never stick his nose in an ACC lane.

So what ACC 4 will give Cooper problems?
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You need to stop drawing conclusions from highly edited scrimmage video. The word from the scrimmage was that Cooper was impressive on the wing guarding players like Curry and Holiday but was abused in the post by Bam and AD. That does not mean his overall performance wasn't awesome but it does indicate that heft may be an issue for him.

I have no idea which current frontcourt players will give Cooper fits this season since I haven't looked at other rosters, but last season Ingram, Schefflin, Diarra, and a few others would have posed issues for Cooper. A lot of people talk about how good Cooper is all over the court, and I largely agree with them. Do you know where he positively sucks? On the bench with two fouls and eight minutes to go in the first half.

All those guys you expect to shoot 3s won't do that when Cooper is guarding them. They will take him down to the post where they can use their size and strength to overcome Cooper's talent.
 
azzefkram said:
You need to stop drawing conclusions from highly edited scrimmage video. The word from the scrimmage was that Cooper was impressive on the wing guarding players like Curry and Holiday but was abused in the post by Bam and AD. That does not mean his overall performance wasn't awesome but it does indicate that heft may be an issue for him.

I have no idea which current frontcourt players will give Cooper fits this season since I haven't looked at other rosters, but last season Ingram, Schefflin, Diarra, and a few others would have posed issues for Cooper. A lot of people talk about how good Cooper is all over the court, and I largely agree with them. Do you know where he positively sucks? On the bench with two fouls and eight minutes to go in the first half.

All those guys you expect to shoot 3s won't do that when Cooper is guarding them. They will take him down to the post where they can use their size and strength to overcome Cooper's talent.
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you mean full grown men, who have both been stars in the NBA for several years, were too much to handle for a guy who hasn't even played in a college game yet? ya don't say...
 
azzefkram said:
You need to stop drawing conclusions from highly edited scrimmage video. The word from the scrimmage was that Cooper was impressive on the wing guarding players like Curry and Holiday but was abused in the post by Bam and AD. That does not mean his overall performance wasn't awesome but it does indicate that heft may be an issue for him.

I have no idea which current frontcourt players will give Cooper fits this season since I haven't looked at other rosters, but last season Ingram, Schefflin, Diarra, and a few others would have posed issues for Cooper. A lot of people talk about how good Cooper is all over the court, and I largely agree with them. Do you know where he positively sucks? On the bench with two fouls and eight minutes to go in the first half.

All those guys you expect to shoot 3s won't do that when Cooper is guarding them. They will take him down to the post where they can use their size and strength to overcome Cooper's talent.
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Ok, ok. Thankfully there are no ADs or Bams on our schedule playing as ACC 4's.

I guess you want Cooper chasing the 6-6 Ian Jackson of UNC around the perimeter. I do not. He could do it, but it would really diminish his elite help side defense swatting shots in the lane. The 6-6 Mason Gillis or Sion James are the PERFECT defenders to lock-up Ian Jackson. And they will.

I think you have in your head that every ACC 4 is 240 pounds and will post up Cooper on the blocks. That's 20 years ago when teams played 2 bigs. That's not today's game. Outside of Shef at Clemson, I can't think of a single ACC 4 from last year who made a living posting up on the blocks.
 
SkyBrickey said:
Ok, ok. Thankfully there are no ADs or Bams on our schedule playing as ACC 4's.

I guess you want Cooper chasing the 6-6 Ian Jackson of UNC around the perimeter. I do not. He could do it, but it would really diminish his elite help side defense swatting shots in the lane. The 6-6 Mason Gillis or Sion James are the PERFECT defenders to lock-up Ian Jackson. And they will.

I think you have in your head that every ACC 4 is 240 pounds and will post up Cooper on the blocks. That's 20 years ago when teams played 2 bigs. That's not today's game. Outside of Shef at Clemson, I can't think of a single ACC 4 from last year who made a living posting up on the blocks.
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Shef ain’t Bam, you sayin??
 
SkyBrickey said:
Shef aint Bam!! 😂
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Chef... Bam!!
true
 
DukieTiger said:
Bart Torvik updated his preseason projections and Duke’s solidly in his top tier (of two teams). Knowing that projections like this are the very definition of inexact… I still have to say - the projections he has for Flagg are rather eye-popping.

www.barttorvik.com

T-Page for Duke - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank

T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.
www.barttorvik.com
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Kind of surprised that UNC is #6, with their weakness inside, but I don't know Torvik analyzes that.

ACC is not strong, with Miami #29 and Wake #32 the next ACC teams. Duke's OOC schedule looks good, with Kansas #4, Auburn #7, Arizona #10, Illinois #17, and Kentucky #23.
 
SkyBrickey said:
Ok, ok. Thankfully there are no ADs or Bams on our schedule playing as ACC 4's.

I guess you want Cooper chasing the 6-6 Ian Jackson of UNC around the perimeter. I do not. He could do it, but it would really diminish his elite help side defense swatting shots in the lane. The 6-6 Mason Gillis or Sion James are the PERFECT defenders to lock-up Ian Jackson. And they will.

I think you have in your head that every ACC 4 is 240 pounds and will post up Cooper on the blocks. That's 20 years ago when teams played 2 bigs. That's not today's game. Outside of Shef at Clemson, I can't think of a single ACC 4 from last year who made a living posting up on the blocks.
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Since you are a connoisseur of highly edited scrimmage videos, who was Cooper often guarding in the video?

Marks even said they wanted Cooper to play "centerfield." That is not a frontcourt position. In the most recent TDD podcast, Jon discussed the importance of length on defense. Cooper has length, quickness, and excellent leaping ability. He does not have heft. As for help-side defense, I think guarding a frontcourt player will do far more to hinder Cooper's defense than being on the wing.

An opposing 4 doesn't have to weigh 240 lbs. 225 lbs is still a significant weight advantage over a 205-pound player. Today's game is about maximizing efficiency. An opposing 4 will not attack Cooper from the perimeter, which is where Cooper will have an advantage. He will take Cooper into the post. We are not talking about guards or wings who have never spent a lot of time in the post. We are talking about frontcourt players who probably developed a post-game before they developed an outside shot.

Cooper will probably be Duke's best defensive player. I would much rather have him on Jackson than whatever pu pu platter UNC will run out there for their frontcourt.
 
DukieInBrasil said:
you mean full grown men, who have both been stars in the NBA for several years, were too much to handle for a guy who hasn't even played in a college game yet? ya don't say...
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Are Bam and AD more skilled than Curry or Holiday? Are they more full-grown men? Why was Cooper not just able to hold his own against but, by all accounts, excel against some stars but not others?
 
azzefkram said:
Since you are a connoisseur of highly edited scrimmage videos, who was Cooper often guarding in the video?

Marks even said they wanted Cooper to play "centerfield." That is not a frontcourt position. In the most recent TDD podcast, Jon discussed the importance of length on defense. Cooper has length, quickness, and excellent leaping ability. He does not have heft. As for help-side defense, I think guarding a frontcourt player will do far more to hinder Cooper's defense than being on the wing.

An opposing 4 doesn't have to weigh 240 lbs. 225 lbs is still a significant weight advantage over a 205-pound player. Today's game is about maximizing efficiency. An opposing 4 will not attack Cooper from the perimeter, which is where Cooper will have an advantage. He will take Cooper into the post. We are not talking about guards or wings who have never spent a lot of time in the post. We are talking about frontcourt players who probably developed a post-game before they developed an outside shot.

Cooper will probably be Duke's best defensive player. I would much rather have him on Jackson than whatever pu pu platter UNC will run out there for their frontcourt.
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How will Cooper play centerfield if he’s having to guard opposing 3s on the perimeter?

Easier to sag off of an opposing 4, IMO. Not many teams are going to post up their 4, it kills spacing unless the 5 man is a floor spacer.

Though I could be wrong. Mark Mitchell seemed to be much more effective as a rover on defense when he was able to play the 3, rather than this past year when he was at the 4.
 
DukieTiger said:
How will Cooper play centerfield if he’s having to guard opposing 3s on the perimeter?

Easier to sag off of an opposing 4, IMO. Not many teams are going to post up their 4, it kills spacing unless the 5 man is a floor spacer.

Though I could be wrong. Mark Mitchell seemed to be much more effective as a rover on defense when he was able to play the 3, rather than this past year when he was at the 4.
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Your last paragraph is what I am getting at. The ability to sag off a player has to do with how well they shoot the 3, not really what position they play.
 
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