2024-2025 General MBB Preseason Discussion

azzefkram said:
How is Wooga Poplar on the 3pt shooting list?
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I mean, he hit 38.5% of his 3s last year.

Better question is how Caleb Love, a career 32% 3FG shooter who hit a scalding 33% a year ago, is on the list.

And what about Nijel Pack and Walter Clayton? They both hit about 36% from 3. Why did they make it and 43% Jeremy Roach didn't?!?
 
JasonEvans said:
I mean, he hit 38.5% of his 3s last year.

Better question is how Caleb Love, a career 32% 3FG shooter who hit a scalding 33% a year ago, is on the list.

And what about Nijel Pack and Walter Clayton? They both hit about 36% from 3. Why did they make it and 43% Jeremy Roach didn't?!?
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38.5% is good, but top 16 good?

As for Love, come on, he takes and makes big shots. That is top 16 worthy as long as you ignore that he takes and misses bad shots most of the time. Reminds me of my golf game or as I like to call it, azzef tortures landscaping.
 
JasonEvans said:
Better question is how Caleb Love, a career 32% 3FG shooter who hit a scalding 33% a year ago, is on the list.
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Last season Caleb Love hit 92 of his 277 attempted threes. Next season he may attempt another 277 and make only 1 of them, but we all know when he'll hit that 1 shot.

It’s what he was born to do. He serves no other purpose.
 
brevity said:
Andy Katz has put together a few lists for the upcoming season.

Top 16 bigs

1. Hunter Dickinson, Kansas
2. Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton
3. Johni Broome, Auburn
4. Graham Ike, Gonzaga
5. Derik Queen, Maryland
6. Norchad Omier, Baylor
7. Great Osobor, Washington
8. Oumar Ballo, Indiana
9. J'Wan Roberts, Houston
10. Yaxel Lendeborg, UAB
11. Coleman Hawkins, Kansas State
12. Cliff Omoruyi, Alabama
13. Grant Nelson, Alabama
14. Robbie Avila, St. Louis
15. Jonas Aidoo, Arkansas
16. JT Toppin, Texas Tech

Top 16 wings

1. Cooper Flagg, Duke
2. Alex Karaban, Connecticut
3. Ace Bailey, Rutgers
4. Dawson Garcia, Minnesota
5. Liam McNeeley, Connecticut
6. Tucker DeVries, West Virginia
7. Johnell Davis, Arkansas
8. Hunter Sallis, Wake Forest
9. AJ Storr, Kansas
10. Jaxson Robinson, Kentucky
11. Payton Sandfort, Iowa
12. Bryce Hopkins, Providence
13. Tyon Grant-Foster, Grand Canyon
14. Tyson Degenhart, Boise State
15. Rylan Griffen, Kansas
16. Tramon Mark, Texas

Top 16 guards

1. Dylan Harper, Rutgers
2. RJ Davis, UNC
3. Mark Sears, Alabama
4. Caleb Love, Arizona
5. Braden Smith, Purdue
6. Dajuan Harris, Kansas
7. Bruce Thornton, Ohio State
8. Wade Taylor IV, Texas A&M
9. Tamin Lipsey, Iowa State
10. LJ Cryer, Houston
11. Ryan Nembhard, Gonzaga
12. Kam Jones, Marquette
13. Tyrese Proctor, Duke
14. Kadary Richmond, St. John's
15. Matthew Murrell, Ole Miss
16. Zakai Ziegler, Tennessee

Top 16 three-point shooters

1. Koby Brea, Kentucky
2. Mark Sears, Alabama
3. Payton Sandfort, Iowa
4. Kam Jones, Marquette
5. RJ Davis, UNC
6. LJ Cryer, Houston
7. Johnell Davis, Arkansas
8. Trevin Knell, BYU
9. Matthew Murrell, Ole Miss
10. Walter Clayton Jr, Florida
11. Nijel Pack, Miami
12. Caleb Love, Arizona
13. Zeke Mayo, Kansas
14. Josh Hubbard, Mississippi State
15. Wooga Poplar, Villanova
16. Dominick Harris, UCLA

He also ranks UNC-Duke as the top rivalry and Cameron Indoor Stadium as the second best arena behind Allen Fieldhouse.

Someone at Keeping It Heel lost his marbles about the "flat-out disrespect" of RJ Davis in the list of top guards. Curious, I looked at the list, and he was ranked... 2nd. Much like one of those ill-advised DBR front page articles (like today, with JD King doubling down on interpreting Dan Hurley's state of mind), the author here tries to self-defuse the situation he created, but he's pretty ticked off about seeing a Rutgers freshman at #1, and now it's out there for others to see.

Put it this way. It's a big world of college basketball beyond Durham, or Chapel Hill, or wherever a favorite team resides. It's a better world, too. Imagine if you just stopped watching the NCAA Tournament out of principle if your team wasn't playing or was no longer playing. I understand a general cooling-off period, or maybe skipping a championship game if you just weren't feeling it (Indiana-Maryland 2002 comes to mind), but to ignore everyone else entirely is denying yourself some pretty good entertainment -- at a time when the season is about to end, and there's nothing as good in the sports world for the next several months.

It's nice that Andy Katz ranked Cooper Flagg #1 among wings, but I would have been fine if he didn't. Frankly, I don't really understand the uniformity of opinion with Flagg as the top pick in the 2025 NBA Draft. The overwhelming favorite, sure, but unanimous? Nobody disagrees? You can't find one person -- true believer or crusty contrarian -- who might suggest VJ Edgecombe, or the Rutgers pair, or even Khaman Maluach?
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I understand why Cooper is the unanimous #1 pick. He's been exhaustively scouted and appraised. He has zero to prove at Duke. Room to improve, sure. But nothing to prove. There are no lingering questions about him to justify #1. That's very unusual.

If Dylan Harper or VJ Edgecombe blow up and score 25ppg, they still can't bring all the things to a team that Cooper can. If AJ Dybansta were in this class, even though he has a lingering question or two about his game, some people would be mocking him ahead of Cooper. But there's no AJ in this class...
 
JasonEvans said:
Pie bet says Kon Kneuppel has a higher 3-point FG% than half the guys on this list.

This may be my riskiest pie bet ever -- as K2 has never played a second of college ball -- but he's gonna be a shooting stud, I am sure of it.
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I will NOT take this bet. 🙂

I expect these lists are motivating for Kon, Caleb and Khaman. I think all three have a great shot at being on these lists year-end.
 
Dick Vitale shares some of his preseason superlatives:

www.espn.com

Vitale's preseason PTPers, floor generals and more players to watch

From Wooden Award contenders to big men and impact transfers, here is who Dickie V will be watching when the 2024-25 men's college basketball season tips.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

He singles out Cooper Flagg among his PTPers and Duke's frontcourt (Flagg, Khaman Maluach, Maliq Brown) among the nation's best. Vitale also names his top backcourts, impact transfers, and coaches.
 
Nice interview with CWell on the podcast. He seemed to me to further confirm that the K2 hype is legit.

Is there anyone still expecting Kon to be Cooper's backup at the 3 or CFos' backup at the 2? Just checking the temperature on K2 Island. 🏝️ 😎
 
SkyBrickey said:
Nice interview with CWell on the podcast. He seemed to me to further confirm that the K2 hype is legit.

Is there anyone still expecting Kon to be Cooper's backup at the 3 or CFos' backup at the 2? Just checking the temperature on K2 Island. 🏝️ 😎
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No inside info, but I have come around to the point where I expect the starters to be -- Proctor, CFos, K2, Coop, and Maluach (or Brown, especially earlier in the season).
 
JasonEvans said:
No inside info, but I have come around to the point where I expect the starters to be -- Proctor, CFos, K2, Coop, and Maluach (or Brown, especially earlier in the season).
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This is my starting lineup too. I liked how CWell unprompted said that K2 "can guard" when he was listing off his positives.

To be fair to all the folks who weren't impressed with Kon's HS defense, I think this might end up being a case where he grew a couple of inches, lost some baby fat, and really worked hard to become a better defender.

For me the biggest question mark on this team is Maluach. I think we can be a great team with him splitting time with Brown at the 5 and putting up decent numbers. But if he turns into a dominant rebounder and rim protector and lob threat playing 25mpg, that's when this team could become really special.
 
SkyBrickey said:
This is my starting lineup too. I liked how CWell unprompted said that K2 "can guard" when he was listing off his positives.

To be fair to all the folks who weren't impressed with Kon's HS defense, I think this might end up being a case where he grew a couple of inches, lost some baby fat, and really worked hard to become a better defender.

For me the biggest question mark on this team is Maluach. I think we can be a great team with him splitting time with Brown at the 5 and putting up decent numbers. But if he turns into a dominant rebounder and rim protector and lob threat playing 25mpg, that's when this team could become really special.
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Until it is seen, it's coach-speak. Maliq is a very good player but a poor 5. Cooper will probably be a great player but just a good 4. Maluach has a chance to be awesome in 2025, but I think 2024 will be a bit of an adventure. Playing in the Olympics was a great experience but given how differently FIBA is called compared to college I think freshman big foulitis might be more severe for Khaman early on.

The biggest question for me is how committed Jon is to having an elite defensive team. Some of the lineups bandied about would be non championship contending lineups.
 
I couldn't quickly find the Bilas talks to the team video. But Coach K talks to the team video just dropped... so I put it here...


ETA/// Well... I found the Bilas talks to the team video... but I guess I'll leave this here since that one specifically is about Bilas. This one... maybe... more "general discussion". :)
 
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azzefkram said:
Until it is seen, it's coach-speak. Maliq is a very good player but a poor 5. Cooper will probably be a great player but just a good 4. Maluach has a chance to be awesome in 2025, but I think 2024 will be a bit of an adventure. Playing in the Olympics was a great experience but given how differently FIBA is called compared to college I think freshman big foulitis might be more severe for Khaman early on.

The biggest question for me is how committed Jon is to having an elite defensive team. Some of the lineups bandied about would be non championship contending lineups.
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Two can play this game...

Cooper will be a GREAT 4. And with Maliq and Khaman at the 5, we will have the best frontcourt in the ACC. With Proctor, CFos and Sion, we will also have the best defensive backcourt in the ACC. And Kon will end up being the best 3-level scorer on the team and first team all-ACC freshman. Gillis will be the ultimate glue guy. It's a loaded roster that has a great shot to win a Natty.

Preseason prognostications are fun!
 
gep said:
I couldn't quickly find the Bilas talks to the team video. But Coach K talks to the team video just dropped... so I put it here...


ETA/// Well... I found the Bilas talks to the team video... but I guess I'll leave this here since that one specifically is about Bilas. This one... maybe... more "general discussion". :)
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Still the best.
 
brevity said:
Andy Katz has put together a few lists for the upcoming season.
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And here's another one.

Top 16 defenders

1. Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton
2. Cliff Omoruyi, Alabama
3. Johni Broome, Auburn
4. Ace Baldwin Jr, Penn State
5. Tamin Lipsey, Iowa State
6. Lamont Butler, Kentucky
7. Zakai Zeigler, Tennessee
8. Milos Uzan, Houston
9. Wade Taylor IV, Texas A&M
10. Yaxel Lendeborg, UAB
11. Jahmal Mashack, Tennessee
12. Ugonna Onyenso, Kansas State
13. Kadary Richmond, St. John's
14. Caleb Foster, Duke
15. Aziz Bandaogo, Cincinnati
16. Felix Okpara, Tennessee

Glad to see Foster get the recognition, but he's a surprising choice as Duke's only representative on this list. Katz included 3 Tennessee players, so certainly there was room for, say, Maliq Brown or Tyrese Proctor.
 
brevity said:
And here's another one.

Top 16 defenders

1. Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton
2. Cliff Omoruyi, Alabama
3. Johni Broome, Auburn
4. Ace Baldwin Jr, Penn State
5. Tamin Lipsey, Iowa State
6. Lamont Butler, Kentucky
7. Zakai Zeigler, Tennessee
8. Milos Uzan, Houston
9. Wade Taylor IV, Texas A&M
10. Yaxel Lendeborg, UAB
11. Jahmal Mashack, Tennessee
12. Ugonna Onyenso, Kansas State
13. Kadary Richmond, St. John's
14. Caleb Foster, Duke
15. Aziz Bandaogo, Cincinnati
16. Felix Okpara, Tennessee

Glad to see Foster get the recognition, but he's a surprising choice as Duke's only representative on this list. Katz included 3 Tennessee players, so certainly there was room for, say, Maliq Brown or Tyrese Proctor.
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Considering most of us would probably consider Foster to likely be no better than a distance fourth (to Brown, Proctor, and Flagg), it kind of casts doubt on the whole enterprise.
 
SkyBrickey said:
Two can play this game...

Cooper will be a GREAT 4. And with Maliq and Khaman at the 5, we will have the best frontcourt in the ACC. With Proctor, CFos and Sion, we will also have the best defensive backcourt in the ACC. And Kon will end up being the best 3-level scorer on the team and first team all-ACC freshman. Gillis will be the ultimate glue guy. It's a loaded roster that has a great shot to win a Natty.

Preseason prognostications are fun!
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I would imagine that Cooper would at least be very good no matter where Jon puts him, but it's about something other than Cooper being very good. For this team to reach its potential, its best player needs to be great. More than likely, Cooper won't be great at the 4. I have two seasons of a data that show that Maliq is not great at the 5.

Here's the thing. Cooper played for the Select Team. Word out of the practices was that he was abused in the post but held his own, maybe even excelled on the perimeter. He was playing against NBA All-Stars in both places. If he can hold his own against NBA All-Stars on the perimeter, that's where I want him to play in college. If Kon, or Evans, or Harris, or Sion, or Mason get fewer minutes, so be it. I want Duke's best player in the best position to have the most positive impact.
 
UrinalCake said:
I legitimately wonder if Katz meant to say Proctor and not Foster. I make that mistake all the time, mainly because Proctor is from Australia which makes me think of drinking a Foster's.
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^^^This reply wins!!!

I legit saw that list and thought "I wonder where Proctor and Flagg will be" on it. Honestly, Foster never really occurred to me. Not that CFos isn't a quality defender, but he just wasn't better than Proctor a year ago... and Flagg is supposed to be the best defensive freshman college basketball has seen in a decade or more.

Lists are clickbait, congrats Mr. Katz.
 
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