2024-2025 Another Duke MBB Preseason Discussion (I Give Up)

Back to Stanley Borden… As alluded to several times right on this board (don’t ask me to find where), Stanley had two serious injuries last season, although there was little press on it, and it seems that it was decided that he was redshirting. Stanley could play or potentially be starting at 80% of D1 schools, but he did the old-school thing we all want: stayed at Duke for his whole career. imagine what it must be like when you are playing with/behind Derek Lively, Mark Mitchell, Paolo, et al. It must take real dedication to the team, to do the work year after year in such conditions, and to be doing so as a walk on! And I am sure he has learned a ton. So I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to think that a 7 foot senior might find a role on this year‘s team, especially with an opening at the five.
Cannot wait for the season to start!
Go Duke! 9f!
So, as a walk-on, does the concept of red-shirt even exist? If SB had the inclination to do so, could he get another year due to the injury(s) that kept him from playing last year?
Yes… just like our very own JRob…:cool:
If for no other reason(s), I hate COVID for robbing us of watching JRob finish his Sr. year. He was playing so well, a total revelation and poster boy of the results of dedication to the idea of dedicated dedication.
 
Jonathan Givony has a new piece out that includes his thoughts after attending a Duke practice... it's unfortunately behind the ESPN+ paywall. But there's a snippet that is just too good not to share:
Kon Knueppel was the best player on the floor for Duke -- and it wasn't particularly close -- while helping his team win all three scrimmages.
I think we're running out of appropriate adjectives for the Kon hype train, and calling it "Kon Island" at this point would be completely inaccurate... it's grown to almost a continent.

Fascinatingly, Givony's rave review of Kon extends to the defensive side of the ball as well, and he indicated he's looking like a Top 10 pick. There's a real chance this Duke team has 3 OAD freshmen who are Top 10 picks, two veteran guards who could potentially work their way into the first round, and another vet (Sion) who is a strong candidate for a second round pick or two-way deal. We haven't seen that amount of raw talent on a team since Zion's squad, and haven't seen that combination of talent with high-leverage game experience (mainly by way of Tyrese and Mason, but also Maliq, Sion, and Caleb to a lesser extent) since... ever?
 
Jonathan Givony has a new piece out that includes his thoughts after attending a Duke practice... it's unfortunately behind the ESPN+ paywall. But there's a snippet that is just too good not to share:

I think we're running out of appropriate adjectives for the Kon hype train, and calling it "Kon Island" at this point would be completely inaccurate... it's grown to almost a continent.

Fascinatingly, Givony's rave review of Kon extends to the defensive side of the ball as well, and he indicated he's looking like a Top 10 pick. There's a real chance this Duke team has 3 OAD freshmen who are Top 10 picks, two veteran guards who could potentially work their way into the first round, and another vet (Sion) who is a strong candidate for a second round pick or two-way deal. We haven't seen that amount of raw talent on a team since Zion's squad, and haven't seen that combination of talent with high-leverage game experience (mainly by way of Tyrese and Mason, but also Maliq, Sion, and Caleb to a lesser extent) since... ever?
KK's rise complicates the minutes discussion for sure. If he is one of the ACC's top shooters and a top 10 draft pick, how does he not play at least 30 minutes a game? Flagg will play 30 minutes too... doesn't leave many minutes on the wing.
 
That's very high praise coming from Givony who I consider to be one of the best talent evaluators out there.

Only issue with that starting 5 is that it's still a pretty young group and makes me wonder how many minutes our upper classemen transfers will ultimately get.
 
Jonathan Givony has a new piece out that includes his thoughts after attending a Duke practice... it's unfortunately behind the ESPN+ paywall. But there's a snippet that is just too good not to share:

I think we're running out of appropriate adjectives for the Kon hype train, and calling it "Kon Island" at this point would be completely inaccurate... it's grown to almost a continent.

Fascinatingly, Givony's rave review of Kon extends to the defensive side of the ball as well, and he indicated he's looking like a Top 10 pick. There's a real chance this Duke team has 3 OAD freshmen who are Top 10 picks, two veteran guards who could potentially work their way into the first round, and another vet (Sion) who is a strong candidate for a second round pick or two-way deal. We haven't seen that amount of raw talent on a team since Zion's squad, and haven't seen that combination of talent with high-leverage game experience (mainly by way of Tyrese and Mason, but also Maliq, Sion, and Caleb to a lesser extent) since... ever?
I also read the article, and I highly recommend it to anyone with ESPN+. I agree with most of what you said, but you are definitely overselling what Givony said about Kon's defense.
 
KK's rise complicates the minutes discussion for sure. If he is one of the ACC's top shooters and a top 10 draft pick, how does he not play at least 30 minutes a game? Flagg will play 30 minutes too... doesn't leave many minutes on the wing.

That's very high praise coming from Givony who I consider to be one of the best talent evaluators out there.

Only issue with that starting 5 is that it's still a pretty young group and makes me wonder how many minutes our upper classemen transfers will ultimately get.
We've seen more and more in recent years that uber-talented OADs aren't necessarily playing the 30-35 mpg you would've expected 5-10 years ago, given the nature of the transfer portal: top teams have more, experienced depth than they would've in years prior. I don't think it's necessarily contradictory to say that Kon is our second best player and a Top 10 projected draft pick and he may anywhere from 20 to 35 mpg highly dependent upon the matchups. That still leaves plenty of minutes for guys like Sion and Mason, IMHO.

Also FWIW, another element of Givony's writeup was that, while he's still very high on Isaiah Evans' long term prospects, he still appears a year away from realizing that potential. If Kon does end up earning 30+ mpg, I think the likeliest scenario to balance that out would be Isaiah being a ~5 mpg guy, likely very dependent upon matchups and the hot hand.

All that said, I'm not concerned about this given that both Sion and Mason, arguably the guys who would have their minutes most impacted by Kon's ascendence, are by all reports super-high character young men who want to win more than anything. If we had taken in a younger transfer still looking to make their mark and maximize their draft stock and/or NIL earnings, maybe Kon eating into their minutes might cause some friction. But by all accounts Mason and Sion aren't those guys. If they play 10 mpg instead of 20 but Duke is winning, something tells me everyone will be happy.
 
Wow. Givony would not toss that out lightly. Reminds me again of what CFos said, "I can't wait for everyone to see Kon play."

This team is going to be something special.

The biggest unknown for me remains whether Man Man will be ready to give us a dominant presence inside. I know he has a very high ceiling, but how much of it will we get to see this year? If he's not quite there, I could imagine Jon starting the year with a 20/20 minutes split with Khaman and Maliq with one eventually earning 25-30mpg by year end. Hopefully that ends up being Khaman...
 
I also read the article, and I highly recommend it to anyone with ESPN+. I agree with most of what you said, but you are definitely overselling what Givony said about Kon's defense.
Ok, maybe putting the word "rave" and "defense" as close together as I did was a bit misleading, but I think that saying his "much better than expected" defense was definitely a part of the overall "rave reviews" is definitely valid. If the a priori assumption is that Kon is going to be a major defensive liability (something that has permeated the discussion here all offseason) but scouts are actually seeing that Kon is competing and capable defensively, that's a huge plus to his overall scouting report from where it was before the summer.
 
We've seen more and more in recent years that uber-talented OADs aren't necessarily playing the 30-35 mpg you would've expected 5-10 years ago, given the nature of the transfer portal: top teams have more, experienced depth than they would've in years prior. I don't think it's necessarily contradictory to say that Kon is our second best player and a Top 10 projected draft pick and he may anywhere from 20 to 35 mpg highly dependent upon the matchups. That still leaves plenty of minutes for guys like Sion and Mason, IMHO.

Also FWIW, another element of Givony's writeup was that, while he's still very high on Isaiah Evans' long term prospects, he still appears a year away from realizing that potential. If Kon does end up earning 30+ mpg, I think the likeliest scenario to balance that out would be Isaiah being a ~5 mpg guy, likely very dependent upon matchups and the hot hand.

All that said, I'm not concerned about this given that both Sion and Mason, arguably the guys who would have their minutes most impacted by Kon's ascendence, are by all reports super-high character young men who want to win more than anything. If we had taken in a younger transfer still looking to make their mark and maximize their draft stock and/or NIL earnings, maybe Kon eating into their minutes might cause some friction. But by all accounts Mason and Sion aren't those guys. If they play 10 mpg instead of 20 but Duke is winning, something tells me everyone will be happy.
I think there are plenty minutes for everyone in an 8-man rotation. Proctor/Foster/Sion share the 1/2. Cooper/Maliq/Khaman share the 4/5. Kon at the 3. And Mason backing up the 3 and possibly the 4.

If that's how it plays out, Darren and Isaiah may ultimately be outside the rotation. But hopefully both understand why and both would have an excellent chance to start as sophomores.
 
Ok, maybe putting the word "rave" and "defense" as close together as I did was a bit misleading, but I think that saying his "much better than expected" defense was definitely a part of the overall "rave reviews" is definitely valid. If the a priori assumption is that Kon is going to be a major defensive liability (something that has permeated the discussion here all offseason) but scouts are actually seeing that Kon is competing and capable defensively, that's a huge plus to his overall scouting report from where it was before the summer.
You're doing it again. Givony never said Kon's defense was "much better than expected." I wish I could quote the article because the defense is still very much in question based on what was written.

What I got from the article was that Kon's offense was going to be so good that as long as he is not a statue on defense he will be an excellent player for Duke.
 
You're doing it again. Givony never said Kon's defense was "much better than expected." I wish I could quote the article because the defense is still very much in question based on what was written.

What I got from the article was that Kon's offense was going to be so good that as long as he is not a statue on defense he will be an excellent player for Duke.
I think we're splitting hairs here, but you're technically right. I'm interpreting what he said as meaning that, especially given his physical limitations (which he explicitly noted).

My interpretation was that Givony didn't see Kon's defense as a major problem (he in fact explicitly praised his competitiveness, strength fighting over screens, and ability to recover on plays he was beat), even though that was perhaps the expectation going in. Correspondingly, the fact that Kon's defense is average or just a minor concern, rather than the overwhelming concern that some thought it might be, is part of what has led scouts to project him in the Top 10 range as opposed to as a potential first round pick entering the summer (and not even thought of as a OAD prospect as recently as 6 months ago).
 
There's a section of the Duke Blue Planet video during a scrimmage where white team is Caleb, Tyrese, Kon, Coop and Khaman and I'm willing to bet on that being the starting 5 day 1. If so, that's a killer bench we've got there.
 
We've seen more and more in recent years that uber-talented OADs aren't necessarily playing the 30-35 mpg you would've expected 5-10 years ago, given the nature of the transfer portal: top teams have more, experienced depth than they would've in years prior. I don't think it's necessarily contradictory to say that Kon is our second best player and a Top 10 projected draft pick and he may anywhere from 20 to 35 mpg highly dependent upon the matchups. That still leaves plenty of minutes for guys Kon's ascendence, are by all reports super-high character young men who want to win more than anything. If we had taken in a younger transfer still looking to make their mark and maximize their draft stock and/or NIL earnings, maybe Kon eating into their minutes might cause some friction. But by all accounts Mason and Sion aren't those guys. If they play 10 mpg instead of 20 but Duke is winning, something tells me everyone will be happy.
Not surprised that our recruited players will play ahead of our transfers. But, as I don't expect Man-Man and Kon to play much over 20 mpg, that leaves plenty of minutes for Maliq and Mason. If Sion is the third guard he'll also average around 20 mpg.

Moving back East thru T'giving. Looking forward to multiple trips to Durham.
 
We haven't seen that amount of raw talent on a team since Zion's squad, and haven't seen that combination of talent with high-leverage game experience (mainly by way of Tyrese and Mason, but also Maliq, Sion, and Caleb to a lesser extent) since... ever?
Hmmm. Couldn't find an Irrational Exuberance gif, and I'm too lazy to make one.

That said, I like the way you're exubing.
 
I think we're splitting hairs here, but you're technically right. I'm interpreting what he said as meaning that, especially given his physical limitations (which he explicitly noted).

My interpretation was that Givony didn't see Kon's defense as a major problem (he in fact explicitly praised his competitiveness, strength fighting over screens, and ability to recover on plays he was beat), even though that was perhaps the expectation going in. Correspondingly, the fact that Kon's defense is average or just a minor concern, rather than the overwhelming concern that some thought it might be, is part of what has led scouts to project him in the Top 10 range as opposed to as a potential first round pick entering the summer (and not even thought of as a OAD prospect as recently as 6 months ago).
I am not surprised by your interpretation since you are a very positive dude, as all dudes are wont to be. :sneaky: I mean, it's in your name, for goodness sake!

I don't think Givony moved the needle concerning Kon's defense. We knew Kon was competitive and strong, so fighting over screens was not new news. Givony still had questions about Kon's average frame, length, and explosiveness. This, too, is not new news. Givony also added the caveat about seeing how it translates into games. I still think Kon's defense is TBD, but more than likely not in the TJ unplayable range.
 
There's a section of the Duke Blue Planet video during a scrimmage where white team is Caleb, Tyrese, Kon, Coop and Khaman and I'm willing to bet on that being the starting 5 day 1. If so, that's a killer bench we've got there.
I was a little concerned that the above lineup doesn't take advantage of the transfers toughness and expierence. And having three freshman in the lineup isn't great for toughness which is one of the things Jon said he wanted to focus on for this year. But I'm not really worried about Kon and Cooper as i think they are tough and high IQ guys. Not as sure about Khaman as he is so new to it all. But the potential is intoxicating. and I like what i'm seeing in regards to his attitude.
 
I was a little concerned that the above lineup doesn't take advantage of the transfers toughness and expierence. And having three freshman in the lineup isn't great for toughness which is one of the things Jon said he wanted to focus on for this year. But I'm not really worried about Kon and Cooper as i think they are tough and high IQ guys. Not as sure about Khaman as he is so new to it all. But the potential is intoxicating. and I like what i'm seeing in regards to his attitude.
I think all the freshmen are getting toughened up this summer banging with Sion, Mason and Maliq every day in practice. That's the beautiful thing about this team. Those guys set a bar that the freshmen have to clear.
 
I am not surprised by your interpretation since you are a very positive dude, as all dudes are wont to be. :sneaky: I mean, it's in your name, for goodness sake!

I don't think Givony moved the needle concerning Kon's defense. We knew Kon was competitive and strong, so fighting over screens was not new news. Givony still had questions about Kon's average frame, length, and explosiveness. This, too, is not new news. Givony also added the caveat about seeing how it translates into games. I still think Kon's defense is TBD, but more than likely not in the TJ unplayable range.
Givony would not project Kon as a top 10 pick if his defense was a liability in college. I'm expecting an average college wing defender - and an elite offensive player.
 
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