Is It Time For Cut To Retire?

[budwom]

This is at least part of the reason I direct most of my frustration at the coaches, who are responsible for training and preparing the players. I will discuss team weaknesses or units that are underperforming when discussing the team, though, and I don't think that doing so is mutually exclusive from fully supporting and appreciating the players on the squad. Remember, nobody (well, I'm sure you can find someone somewhere, but you know what I mean) is advocating pulling scholarships from any players. Any changes suggested, requested, or proposed are in the coaching ranks, which I think is different.

yup, the assertion that those bemoaning our current status are somehow not supportive of the program is both wildly off the mark and insulting. Many of us travel great distances to attend games thru thick and thin, decade after decade. That's pretty supportive.

[AustinDevil]

yup, the assertion that those bemoaning our current status are somehow not supportive of the program is both wildly off the mark and insulting. Many of us travel great distances to attend games thru thick and thin, decade after decade. That's pretty supportive.

+1. I have traveled from Texas to Durham (multiple times), Atlanta (twice), New Orleans, and South Bend for Duke football. I don't foresee any future travel for football absent significant, new, reason for optimism.

[budwom]

There are a LOT of people on this board, and on these football threads in particular, whom I met in the early days of DBR, roughly 1995 IIRC. We had a tailgate once a year, thru all the horrific, sometimes winless (Yoh and eleven) seasons...these people have stayed with Duke football thru thick and especially thin, year after hapless year. I am glad to see so many of them still posting, and still caring about Duke football.

[BlueDevil16]

Addazio fired from BC despite making a bowl game

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Addazio fired from BC despite making a bowl game

Looks like Will Muschamp might've been given the "sit down ultimatum" in the AD's office, or perhaps he took it upon himself to keep from being fired...he demoted his OC back to WR coach, and fired his QB coach and his strength coach.
https://www.abccolumbia.com/2019/12/...es-one-sunday/

Just sayin...

[Devilwin]

I have been a Duke fan since age ten and come to football games when I can. I came during the lean years, and saw us win a handful. But not til 1989 did we win anything of note. Saw some great players, Ernie Jackson, Rich Searl, Ed Newman, Troy 'the blade" Slade, Ben Bennett, Leo Hart, and Wes Chesson, and many others.
All laboring under futility.
Along comes Cut, and suddenly we are respectable again after decades. I can overlook some lean years, it happens. But it's the way some of these loses this year happened that has many of us upset. Not at Cut, but at those in charge of the offense and defense. Hoping to see some movement there. Cut may be loyal to a fault, and that's a problem. But no, I do not want him to go, but his underlings.

[duke2x]

But it's the way some of these loses this year happened that has many of us upset. Not at Cut, but at those in charge of the offense and defense. Hoping to see some movement there. Cut may be loyal to a fault, and that's a problem. But no, I do not want him to go, but his underlings.

If Cut goes for the tie against UNC and loses, these threads don't exist. We wrapped UNC's bowl game and put it under the tree. The lump of coal that I hope appears in UNC's stocking is the departure of Jay Bateman to a real football school like VT or TX. Army hasn't been the same without him this year. Bateman is from eastern VA, however.

I'll defer to those with superior moderation skills, but it's definitely time to move on. My guess (and possible reiteration) is that Dr. White's retirement in 1-3 years is the next change for Duke football. The next AD must have the skill/luck of Tom Butters in identifying coaching talent.

[RPS]

I think this thread is nuts.

What logical basis do we have to expect we can be significantly better on a consistent basis?

Our peer institutions, broadly, are the likes of Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Stanford, and Wake. Other than Stanford, our success in the Cutcliffe era easily surpasses theirs, and Stanford sits in the middle of fertile recruiting territory while we do not. Over the past five decades, only the Spurrier era was as good and his USC experience suggests that His Viserness might have a tough time matching Cut's level of success in the current environment. Remember, Steve Sloan was a *great* hire.

I think this thread is nuts.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I think this thread is nuts.

What logical basis do we have to expect we can be significantly better on a consistent basis?

Our peer institutions, broadly, are the likes of Vanderbilt, Rice, Northwestern, Stanford, and Wake. Other than Stanford, our success in the Cutcliffe era easily surpasses theirs, and Stanford sits in the middle of fertile recruiting territory while we do not. Over the past five decades, only the Spurrier era was as good and his USC experience suggests that His Viserness might have a tough time matching Cut's level of success in the current environment. Remember, Steve Sloan was a *great* hire.

I think this thread is nuts.

Fair metric, but perhaps you should check your math. Cut lapped Wake but now they've lapped him back. NW would be considered a better program than Dukes over the years. Vandy often as well. Only Rice fits the category of being easily surpassed, and they're not even P5. And I don't think Northern California is in the middle of fertile recruiting territory especially.
Just being honest.

I don't think Cut should retire. I don't think the question is nuts either. This thread is not calling for him to be fired. That would be nuts. Seems like some here are averse to the tough question and don't even want them discussed.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If Cut is going to make changes, it seems that now is the time to pull the trigger with so many other coaching changes on the horizon. As I pointed out in the coaching thread, State just ditched their DC, and other schools like SC are making their moves now.

[Acymetric]

If Cut is going to make changes, it seems that now is the time to pull the trigger with so many other coaching changes on the horizon. As I pointed out in the coaching thread, State just ditched their DC, and other schools like SC are making their moves now.

Historically, Cut has liked to make his moves after the AFCA Convention (Jan 12-14) from what I recall, although I'm sure there are exceptions. Partly because you can find good young coaches there, and partly because it gives the guys that are "moving on" a chance to network and look for landing spots before getting released. For guys like Matt Luke or Mike McIntyre he might make exceptions (although I'm not sure there is really room for McIntyre on the defensive staff).

[CameronBornAndBred]

Historically, Cut has liked to make his moves after the AFCA Convention (Jan 12-14) from what I recall, although I'm sure there are exceptions. Partly because you can find good young coaches there, and partly because it gives the guys that are "moving on" a chance to network and look for landing spots before getting released. For guys like Matt Luke or Mike McIntyre he might make exceptions (although I'm not sure there is really room for McIntyre on the defensive staff).

IF he is going to can anyone, aren't they better off if it happens now? I'd think it goes both ways, and being that Cut is a "loyal" guy, it would seem to benefit someone if he were to say "well, I'm letting you go, but I'm doing it now so you have more time to look around for your next opportunity".
It doesn't mean that he still can't wait til the convention to pick up a replacement.

Put it this way...the longer he waits, the longer I'm going to assume that I'm gonna be yelling "Fire Roper" next year, too.

[Acymetric]

IF he is going to can anyone, aren't they better off if it happens now? I'd think it goes both ways, and being that Cut is a "loyal" guy, it would seem to benefit someone if he were to say "well, I'm letting you go, but I'm doing it now so you have more time to look around for your next opportunity".
It doesn't mean that he still can't wait til the convention to pick up a replacement.

Put it this way...the longer he waits, the longer I'm going to assume that I'm gonna be yelling "Fire Roper" next year, too.

I guess I should have added "publicly". So yeah, he probably tells someone who is on his way out "start floating your resume and make sure you get to the convention in January" now(ish), but nothing is announced publicly and no official moves are made until after. Again, I'm sure there have been some times where this didn't hold true, but I believe he has stated this as his preference for making coaching changes.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Historically, Cut has liked to make his moves after the AFCA Convention (Jan 12-14) from what I recall, although I'm sure there are exceptions. Partly because you can find good young coaches there, and partly because it gives the guys that are "moving on" a chance to network and look for landing spots before getting released. For guys like Matt Luke or Mike McIntyre he might make exceptions (although I'm not sure there is really room for McIntyre on the defensive staff).

Waiting that late? In non bowl years? I would think that's more of a bowl year time table, not a disaster time table.

[RPS]

Fair metric, but perhaps you should check your math.

Checking one's math is always a good idea. Since I posted based on memory, it is an especially good suggestion here. But I don't think the math says what you think it does.

Cut lapped Wake but now they've lapped him back.

Over the past three seasons, Wake has won 23 games to our 20. That's hardly lapping. Overall, during Cut's tenure, Duke has 72 wins to Wake's 67. And, remember, both Clawson and Grobe (Wake's coaches during the applicable period) are widely considered successes.

NW would be considered a better program than Dukes [sic] over the years.

You're right about this. My memory failed me here. Pat Fitzgerald has done a great job. But a quick look at the historical record shows that previous Northwestern coaches' records didn't match up to Cut's at Duke. Well, Ara Parseghian's does, but he was still barely .500 over eight seasons beginning in 1956.

Vandy often as well.

Nope: 62 v. 72 wins over the relevant period.

Only Rice fits the category of being easily surpassed, and they're not even P5.

Wrong again (except about P5 status).

And I don't think Northern California is in the middle of fertile recruiting territory especially.

Stanford's 2019 recruiting class had nine CA kids and was ranked #21 nationally; the 2020 commits include seven from CA and the class is currently ranked #22 nationally. For Duke, it's six NC kids in 2019 for a #67 rank and two 2020 commits for a #67 ranking class.

Just being honest.

Just honestly wrong.

I don't think Cut should retire. I don't think the question is nuts either. This thread is not calling for him to be fired. That would be nuts. Seems like some here are averse to the tough question and don't even want them discussed.

This is an internet discussion board, of course stuff gets discussed. That's the entire purpose. Discuss (and be wrong) all you'd like.

[lotusland]

Looks like Will Muschamp might've been given the "sit down ultimatum" in the AD's office, or perhaps he took it upon himself to keep from being fired...he demoted his OC back to WR coach, and fired his QB coach and his strength coach.
https://www.abccolumbia.com/2019/12/...es-one-sunday/

Just sayin...

QB Jake Bentley to transfer grad transfer . Some random speculation that Duke in the mix. I’d like to see what Cut could do with him myself. The kid made a lot of plays for the gamecocks but not enough against Clemson and the SEC elite. His father reportedly will remain at good Carolina and may be in line for the OC job. Muschamp has an $18 Million buyout so no one in their right mind thought he would be fired now. His seat is red hot though.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Checking one's math is always a good idea. Since I posted based on memory, it is an especially good suggestion here. But I don't think the math says what you think it does.

Over the past three seasons, Wake has won 23 games to our 20. That's hardly lapping. Overall, during Cut's tenure, Duke has 72 wins to Wake's 67. And, remember, both Clawson and Grobe (Wake's coaches during the applicable period) are widely considered successes. Of course they've beat the absolute snot out of us recently and we were going to get creamed again, only 2 KO returns made it close. Clawsons program is on the way up, Cut's is on the way down it appears.

Nope: 62 v. 72 wins over the relevant period. Vandy plays a much more difficult schedule than Duke does every year. That's not a valid metric.

Wrong again (except about P5 status). Rice? P5? Explain please.

Stanford's 2019 recruiting class had nine CA kids and was ranked #21 nationally; the 2020 commits include seven from CA and the class is currently ranked #22 nationally. For Duke, it's six NC kids in 2019 for a #67 rank and two 2020 commits for a #67 ranking class.

Just honestly wrong. That dawg won't hunt. It's honestly wrong, flawed and misleading to compare the entire state of California as Stanford's recruiting area. The SF area, which they share with Berekely, is NOT a big recruiting area. The entire state of Cali must be shared with Cal, UCLA, USC, Fresno, LBSU, and many more, not to mention invaders from Oregon, Arizona, etc.

This is an internet discussion board, of course stuff gets discussed. That's the entire purpose. Discuss (and be wrong) all you'd like. READING COMP much? That was MY point. You were the one almost - not quite, but ALMOST advocating shutting it down. Just honestly wrong.

See above in BOLD

[plimnko]

it's been a down year by cut's standards. i've seen A LOT worse.

[hudlow]

it's been a down year by cut's standards. i've seen A LOT worse.

YES!!!!

[devilsadvocate85]

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...r-nfl-transfer

He could do worse than spend a year working with Cutcliffe.