MJ asks David Thompson to intro him to the HOF

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Dogs and cats can play together.

I saw several DT games in person back in the day. If you were lucky like I was to see him, it's not that hard to understand how this came about.

Good for MJ for giving the greatest ACC player ever some love.

*misspelled shorthand "intro" in thread title-can a mod fix that?

[Olympic Fan]

I've heard Jordan say that Thompson was his hero growing up.

It's kind of ironic -- David Thompson grew up worshipping UNC's Charlie Scott ... and he passed up UNC for State. Jordan grew up worshipping NCState's Thompson ... and he passed up State for UNC.

One correction in the story. Thompson didn't get the nickname "Skywalker" until he was in the pros. The movie "Star Wars " with its hero Luke Skywalker wasn't released until 1977, when DT was in his second year in the ABA.

However, growing up, Thompson did have a nickname. His older brothers compared his game to that of a former All-ACC guard and used to call him by that player's last name.

For 100 points and the ACC trivia challenge championship, what was David Thompson's original nickname?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

For 100 points and the ACC trivia challenge championship, what was David Thompson's original nickname?

Cunningham: Kangaroo Kid?

[MChambers]

I've heard Jordan say that Thompson was his hero growing up.

It's kind of ironic -- David Thompson grew up worshipping UNC's Charlie Scott ... and he passed up UNC for State. Jordan grew up worshipping NCState's Thompson ... and he passed up State for UNC.

One correction in the story. Thompson didn't get the nickname "Skywalker" until he was in the pros. The movie "Star Wars " with its hero Luke Skywalker wasn't released until 1977, when DT was in his second year in the ABA.

However, growing up, Thompson did have a nickname. His older brothers compared his game to that of a former All-ACC guard and used to call him by that player's last name.

For 100 points and the ACC trivia challenge championship, what was David Thompson's original nickname?

In college, Thompson was a far superior player to Jordan. I'm not criticizing Jordan by saying this, because only a handful of players ever dominated college b-ball like Thompson did.

Obviously, Jordan accomplished far more than Thompson in the pros. Thompson fell prey to his personal demons. While Jordan certainly has had his personal difficulties, they didn't seem to affect his NBA career.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

David Thompson - the best player to ever play in the ACC. I got to see him play three times in Cameron. It was a privilege!

[verga]

i too saw Thompson play in Cameron (or was it Duke Indoor Stadium at the time?), i've never seen anyone jump like him. He seemed to have another gear that mere mortals don't possess. He also had the softest jumper, it was like silk going through the nets. He was truly a one of a kind player. In regards to Cunningham, to this day, i've never seen a better bball player at unc and that includes MJ. He (Cunnigham) doesn't get the praise that he deserves, what a great player he was.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Was Cunningham the right answer? I'm just guessing.

I was a 5'6 HS 115lb soph with media tickets to the whole State season in '74, on the floor under the basket standing with the floor mop guy at Reynolds. Pass was from a DA lawyer uncle, have no idea how he got them.

Man, I know I saw some great games and players there that year, wish I had a better memory beyond just how huge Tommy Burleson was-Tim Stoddard too. DT had unusual -expressive?-eyes when he looked straight at you.
Memory, or what little things you do recall is a strange bird...

Here's some background on DT's NBA career for you young guys.

[heyman25]

David Thompson - the best player to ever play in the ACC. I got to see him play three times in Cameron. It was a privilege!

I was a student at Duke He was incredible. Do you remember his block on Bill Walton in the NCAA semnifinals in Greensboro? The only players I saw play as well in Cameron was Gary Melchionni when he scored 39 points and Art Heyman when he scored 40 points against Carolina Senior Day.

I think Melchionni did that against Maryland.

Thompson had the most athleticism of anyone I have ever seen play basketball.

[MChambers]

I was a student at Duke He was incredible. Do you remember his block on Bill Walton in the NCAA semnifinals in Greensboro?

The play I remember is Thompson, being boxed out by Walton on a rebound, and just going up and up and up to tip the ball in over Walton without committing a foul.

[Olympic Fan]

Was Cunningham the right answer? I'm just guessing.

Wheat ... good guess with Cunningham, but no ...

Thompson's brothers called him "Wiedeman" as a kid because he was so skinny that he reminded them of former Wake Forest guard Dave Wiedeman, who played in the backcourt with Billy Packer.

Wiedeman was first team All-ACC in 1963 (along with Heyman, Mullins, Cunningham and N.C. State's Kenny Rohloff). He was second-team All-ACC in 1962.

[jv001]

[QUOTE=Wheat/"/"/";313342]Was Cunningham the right answer? I'm just guessing.

Maybe it was Billy, but I thought the Kangaroo Kid played forward. I do remember he had to bring the ball up the court against Duke's press one year. Someone mentioned Charlie Scott but I don't remember him having a nickname. I really have no idea. By the way, 3 of my favorite players were from unc. Billy C, Walter D and Bobby Jones. All were great players and great guys. Go Duke!

[Dawun]

"No great surprise that Michael Jordan is going into the Hall of Fame. When you run down the greats of the game, he’s at the top and perhaps only Bill Russell has an argument as a greater player (we’d be inclined to give it to Russell because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college except for two: he was injured in his second year in the NBA, and the other was the year Wilt Chamberlain’s 76ers briefly surpassed Russell’s Celtics. Toss in the 56 Olympics too)."

So, Russell is greater than Jordan because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college? How does that make Bill Russell greater than Jordan. That's a joke right? I know we are Duke fans, but come on. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time without a doubt. He changed the game and the NBA. He's influenced a countless number of professional athletes. People don't say you are the "Bill Russell" of a particular sport. They say you are the "Michael Jordan" of a particular sport. Russell is a legend without a doubt, but if anyone in his era is potentially greater than MJ, then it's Wilt or Oscar Robertson. For the record, they are not greater than Michael Jordan.

[brevity]

"No great surprise that Michael Jordan is going into the Hall of Fame. When you run down the greats of the game, he’s at the top and perhaps only Bill Russell has an argument as a greater player (we’d be inclined to give it to Russell because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college except for two: he was injured in his second year in the NBA, and the other was the year Wilt Chamberlain’s 76ers briefly surpassed Russell’s Celtics. Toss in the 56 Olympics too)."

So, Russell is greater than Jordan because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college? How does that make Bill Russell greater than Jordan. That's a joke right? I know we are Duke fans, but come on. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time without a doubt. He changed the game and the NBA. He's influenced a countless number of professional athletes. People don't say you are the "Bill Russell" of a particular sport. They say you are the "Michael Jordan" of a particular sport. Russell is a legend without a doubt, but if anyone in his era is potentially greater than MJ, then it's Wilt or Oscar Robertson. For the record, they are not greater than Michael Jordan.

One could argue that Bill Russell was a greater champion than Michael Jordan, and possibly any other player in team sports. But yeah, the person you quoted is obviously confused and given to hyperbole, like most people who think they can write.

EDIT: Why is there a separate post on this same subject in the Off Topic board?

[RainingThrees]

I agree. Russell wasn't even the greatest player of his era Wilt was. I hate it when people say Russell is better just because his team did better. People buy into the idea that more championships = better player. It can mean that, but I think it mostly means better team, not better player. For example Deron Williams is a better point guard than Raymond Felton, but who won the championship?

[roywhite]

"No great surprise that Michael Jordan is going into the Hall of Fame. When you run down the greats of the game, he’s at the top and perhaps only Bill Russell has an argument as a greater player (we’d be inclined to give it to Russell because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college except for two: he was injured in his second year in the NBA, and the other was the year Wilt Chamberlain’s 76ers briefly surpassed Russell’s Celtics. Toss in the 56 Olympics too)."

So, Russell is greater than Jordan because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college? How does that make Bill Russell greater than Jordan. That's a joke right? I know we are Duke fans, but come on. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time without a doubt. He changed the game and the NBA. He's influenced a countless number of professional athletes. People don't say you are the "Bill Russell" of a particular sport. They say you are the "Michael Jordan" of a particular sport. Russell is a legend without a doubt, but if anyone in his era is potentially greater than MJ, then it's Wilt or Oscar Robertson. For the record, they are not greater than Michael Jordan.

It's a team sport. And Russell's teams won an amazing number of championships. Russell was perhaps the greatest shot-blocker and defensive player in NBA history. He also won as a player-coach, which is a great achievement.

It's not a given that Jordan is greater than Russell. It's an opinion, and not my opinion.

[Brian913]

"No great surprise that Michael Jordan is going into the Hall of Fame. When you run down the greats of the game, he’s at the top and perhaps only Bill Russell has an argument as a greater player (we’d be inclined to give it to Russell because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college except for two: he was injured in his second year in the NBA, and the other was the year Wilt Chamberlain’s 76ers briefly surpassed Russell’s Celtics. Toss in the 56 Olympics too)."

So, Russell is greater than Jordan because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college? How does that make Bill Russell greater than Jordan. That's a joke right? I know we are Duke fans, but come on. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time without a doubt. He changed the game and the NBA. He's influenced a countless number of professional athletes. People don't say you are the "Bill Russell" of a particular sport. They say you are the "Michael Jordan" of a particular sport. Russell is a legend without a doubt, but if anyone in his era is potentially greater than MJ, then it's Wilt or Oscar Robertson. For the record, they are not greater than Michael Jordan.

Wilt was probably a better athlete than Russell, but nowhere near the basketball player.

[Olympic Fan]

"No great surprise that Michael Jordan is going into the Hall of Fame. When you run down the greats of the game, he’s at the top and perhaps only Bill Russell has an argument as a greater player (we’d be inclined to give it to Russell because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college except for two: he was injured in his second year in the NBA, and the other was the year Wilt Chamberlain’s 76ers briefly surpassed Russell’s Celtics. Toss in the 56 Olympics too)."

So, Russell is greater than Jordan because he won the last game played every season since he was a junior in college? How does that make Bill Russell greater than Jordan. That's a joke right? I know we are Duke fans, but come on. Jordan is the greatest player of all-time without a doubt. He changed the game and the NBA. He's influenced a countless number of professional athletes. People don't say you are the "Bill Russell" of a particular sport. They say you are the "Michael Jordan" of a particular sport. Russell is a legend without a doubt, but if anyone in his era is potentially greater than MJ, then it's Wilt or Oscar Robertson. For the record, they are not greater than Michael Jordan.

Which record is that?

We've had this discussion several times. Michael Jordan is the product of the ESPN hype machine. Russell, who played long before there was a Sportscenter, was a far more dominant player than Michael Jordan.

And, yes, Russell changed the game as much or more than Michael Jordan ever did (the modern goaltending rules are a product of his shotblocking prowess).

Let's put it in simple terms: His teams won. They won far more often that Jordan's teams (or Wilt's teams or Oscar's teams).

Yeah, he had good teammates -- but so did the other guys. Look it up, Philadelphia was actually more successful before Wilt joined the team than the Celtics were before Russell joined the team. The Warriors won the 1956 NBA title without Wilt. The Celtics had never before reached the NBA finals (much less won a title) before Russell joined the team at midseason in 1956-57 (he joined at midseason so he could represent the US in the '56 Olympic games). After that, they never stopped winning until Russell retired. The '56 champion Warriors didn't win again, even after adding Wilt, until Russell retired.

It's worth noting that his San Francisco teams won back to back national titles in his last two years there -- that's more NCAA titles than Jordan, Wilt, Oscar, Jerry West or Larry Bird won COMBINED. Yeah, KC Jones was a teammate for the first title, but Jones was ineligible for the '56 playoffs.

Just for fun, someday look up Jordan's teammates in 1983 and 1984 and compare them with Russell's teammates in 55 and 56. You might be surprised what you find.

Let's see ... Russell was the best player on teams that won two straight NCAA titles, the Olympic Gold and Celtics teams that won the NBA title in 11 of his 13 seasons. The Celtics, which had never won anything before Russell, won the NBA title in his first two seasons (then he got hurt and the Celtics lost in the finals), then they won seven more titles in a row. They also won in his final year when Wilt faked an injury and hid on the bench. And the year after Russell retired, the Celtics -- with all those great players who are supposed to be the reason he won so many titles -- finished below .500 and failed to make the playoffs.

Russell is the greatest winner in the history of team sports -- his teams won the ultimate championship in 13 of his last 15 seasons (14 of 16 if you count the Olympics).

Jordan was a great player and a great winner too. We all remember that he hit the game-winner to help Dean Smith win his first championshp in 1982. But do you remember that James Worthy was the star of that team (and the Final Four MVP) and it also had three-time All-American Sam Perkins.

In the two college seasons after Worthy left, Jordan constantly choked in postseason -- to NC State and Duke in the ACC Tournament semifinals; to Georgia in the Elite Eight and to Indiana in the Sweet 16.

Eventually, Jordan became a winner in the NBA, after a long apprenticeship. After the Bulls added Scottie Pippen. In contrast, Russell won right away and kept winning. Yeah, he won with Cousy (who had never won anything before Russell arrived) ... and he kept winning when Cousy retired. He won before Havlicek arrived and after he arrived.

Your comment that Oscar and Wilt were better than Russell suggest that you are mesmerized by individual stats -- the way Oscar and Wilt were. They put up great numbers. But they weren't winners. Oscar never got Cincinnati to the national title game, but they got there three straight times in the three years after he left (winning two titles). Can you really argue that a guy's the greatest player ever when his team gets better after he leaves?

Oscar won one NBA title, when late in his career, he finally hooked up with Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Wilt choked against UNC in the 1957 title game and he was constantly beaten by Russell. Yeah, he had great numbers against the Celtics, but at crunch time, Russell ALWAYS shut him down. (Russell explained in his autobiography that during the game, he'd let Wilt get the ball where he wanted and take the shots he wanted -- until the game was on the line and Russell would beat him to the spot and deny him the shots he wanted. It always worked and Wilt -- being the mental midget he was -- never figured it out).

My point is that the object of the game is to win, not to score a lot of individual points or pile up a lot of stats. Who is to say that the things Russell did -- his ability to dominate games at the defensive end and on the boards -- were not more important than Jordan's ability to score points? The record that you talk about would seem to indicate that Russell's contributions led to more victories than Jordan's contributions.

Am I right that Russell is the greatest player in basketball history? I think so, but I'm not so arrogant as you are -- and so many other children of the ESPN era are -- to think that my opinion is fact and there's no room for debate.

Just understand that this IS a matter of opinion and there are plenty of varying opinions out there -- and it's not so crazy to suggest that Bill Russell and not Michael Jordan is not the greatest player of all time.

[FireOgilvie]

Bill Russell wasn't even the best offensive player on the NBA teams he played on. How is he the best player of all-time? Best winner? Sure. Best defender? Probably. Best overall player? I don't think so. Also, winning 11 championships with the ridiculous amount of Hall of Famers he had on his teams in the '50s and '60s is not as impressive as winning 6 NBA championships in the '90s. Bill Russell is a center that shot 44.0% FG for his career. Jordan shot 49.7% as a guard, which includes his Wizards years where his percentages were way down. I think the people that are saying Russell is better just can't admit that a Tar Heel could be the best player of all-time.

[JBDuke]

... I think the people that are saying Russell is better just can't admit that a Tar Heel could be the best player of all-time.

Well, I think people that are saying Jordan is better either get mesmerized by glorified statistics or lack historical perspective. So there.

Great post, OF! I agree with all of it. And while I'm not arrogant enough to say that my opinion on who is the NBA's best player ever has more merit than others, I'd put Russell on the top. Others I'd include: Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, Johnson, and Bird, with the Big O as my sixth man.

[roywhite]

Bill Russell wasn't even the best offensive player on the NBA teams he played on. How is he the best player of all-time? Best winner? Sure. Best defender? Probably. Best overall player? I don't think so. Also, winning 11 championships with the ridiculous amount of Hall of Famers he had on his teams in the '50s and '60s is not as impressive as winning 6 NBA championships in the '90s. Bill Russell is a center that shot 44.0% FG for his career. Jordan shot 49.7% as a guard, which includes his Wizards years where his percentages were way down. I think the people that are saying Russell is better just can't admit that a Tar Heel could be the best player of all-time.

I hope you'll read the post made by Olympic Fan preceding your post. He makes a great case for Bill Russell; that is subject to discussion; it's the type of thing that often does get hashed out on message boards. But he also makes the point that this distinction of "greatest player ever" is a matter of opinion and that a reasonable opinion well supported should be respected.