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  1. #21

    What Sagegrouse said, take special note

    Sagegrouse hit all the right points. Listen and heed the advice.

    The point about your screen name here and Facebook accounts is particularly well taken. I was an admissions professional for years in a competitive environment. As a reader, when you have to make fine distinctions, any note that bespeaks cloudy judgment can really hurt you.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    4. Lose your post name, "mickeysgotagun" immediately, if not sooner. [Of course, I have no idea what it means.] Also, clean up your Facebook page. Don't have one -- great! Don't start one -- you have no control over what your friends write.
    Thanks, for the help, just wondering, how do colleges even get information like that?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Well 5 min of googling makes me suspect that your name is D**** X* and that you like MMORPGs like WoW and Warhammer, that you are/were running Windows Vista on and Intel chip with an Nvidia video card.

    Obviously, I'm working backwards from a handle, but you get the idea.

    BTW, if you coordinate(d) large campaigns on WoW, don't be shy about noting that. As long as you took care of your academics, the management of campaigns is no small feat -- although you may need to explain a bit.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by bluebutton View Post
    Well 5 min of googling makes me suspect that your name is D**** X* and that you like MMORPGs like WoW and Warhammer, that you are/were running Windows Vista on and Intel chip with an Nvidia video card.

    Obviously, I'm working backwards from a handle, but you get the idea.

    BTW, if you coordinate(d) large campaigns on WoW, don't be shy about noting that. As long as you took care of your academics, the management of campaigns is no small feat -- although you may need to explain a bit.
    Huh, that's both very cool and very creepy that anyone can find that info online, and since some that info is outdated, I guess websites store it for a long time. Makes me never want to use the internet again.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by mickeysgotagun View Post
    Huh, that's both very cool and very creepy that anyone can find that info online, and since some that info is outdated, I guess websites store it for a long time. Makes me never want to use the internet again.
    Keep that in mind, especially with pictures, because when you put something on the internet it stays out there, forever.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Having a brother that went to Duke definitely helps. It's probably not as significant as a parent, but still qualifies you for legacy status, which means your application automatically gets read by an additional person. According to Guttentag, the legacy acceptance rate for the Class of 2013 was 36%, much higher than the overall 19%. ED Legacy is even higher than that. Guttentag didn't say what it was last year in the discussion I was a part of, but Duke magazine reported is was 66% four years ago. So, legacy + ED = big boost.
    When my daughter applied, she was told by an Admissions rep that being a legacy would "cure the sick" but wouldn't "raise the dead."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    And a 1500 SAT M+V isn't "ok;" it is great! The writing portion isn't as important so while the 650 there is low, Duke doesn't consider it as much as the M+V, and it's essentially like another SAT II. And yes, if you're from North Carolina, that definitely helps as well.
    My daughter's story is an interesting one, I think. She graduated from HS in 2004 and had wanted to go to Duke for her entire life (my influence, I think). We live in CA so the geography was decent. She had lots of APs, a GPA over 4.0, two varsity sports and excellent extracurriculars/leadership at a large (3,500 students) competitive HS, and a 1500 SAT (old format). She was deferred early decision and ultimately rejected. Because I'm an alum, I received a call from Admissions and was told that she was rejected because the Committee didn't think she'd "fit in" at Duke (whatever that means). She ended up going to Wake (my better half's alma mater), had a terrific experience and is now a parent's dream -- honors grad in 3.5 years, off the payroll and earning a paycheck doing consulting in DC.

    My point here is that students -- especially talented ones -- tend to think that there is just one school "for them" when there are at least several (and probably more) at which they can be happy and succeed. It's great that "Mickey" is excited about Duke and is looking to do everything possible to get it, but it's nothing like the end of the world if it doesn't happen. There's a fair amount of "dumb luck" involved in the process.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RPS View Post
    My point here is that students -- especially talented ones -- tend to think that there is just one school "for them" when there are at least several (and probably more) at which they can be happy and succeed. It's great that "Mickey" is excited about Duke and is looking to do everything possible to get it, but it's nothing like the end of the world if it doesn't happen. There's a fair amount of "dumb luck" involved in the process.
    I definitely agree with that. Perhaps you were simply using my quotes as context as I don't think anything I said contradicted what you just said, but perhaps I conveyed a message I did not intend to. Admissions to top schools in this country is definitely a crapshoot. There are far more qualified applicants than there are spots, so getting rejected certainly isn't always an indication of a poor applicant. There's always an element of luck involved. As a UPenn admissions director once told me, "Sometimes you're just a piccolo in a tuba year," referencing an actual year when the pep band director told admissions he didn't have any tuba players and admissions made sure they got several the next year! They were certainly qualified regardless, but so were many other applicants. The tuba, as stupid as it seems, may have put them over the edge. And while legacy helps, it certainly is no guarantee. (I know for a fact that a legacy application automatically gets read by an additional person.) However, as Guttentag said, more than 6 out of 10 legacy applicants didn't get in last year. If you don't get into your first choice, you definitely will still get into a fine institution and have a great experience. Success depends on the individual, not the school he/she attended. Studies have backed this up, comparing students who attended state public schools but were able to get into Ivies. In any event, good luck!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I definitely agree with that. Perhaps you were simply using my quotes as context as I don't think anything I said contradicted what you just said, but perhaps I conveyed a message I did not intend to.
    It was for context only. I didn't disagree with you at all.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    In other words, there are far more solid, nice, reasonable, humane, and smart students who apply than there are spots. Historically, Duke was filled with lots of well-rounded students (and a greater percentage than at Ivy schools--hence our deserved reputation as a place for smart people who like to go to parties and professional schools), but the last 20 years has seen increasing numbers of "angular" students who are fine in all areas but great in at least one.
    I am an alumnus, who has held many volunteer leadership positions at Duke and Fuqua, including interviewing undergraduate applicants in Fairfax County, Virginia, for several years. The foregoing is VERY sound information. Further, you might want to read – with considerable care – Duke Magazine’s superb, insightful 2006 article re the undergraduate admissions process (http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/duk...206/crop1.html), which will reinforce the johnb’s thoughts. In essence, ideally one must be both highly competitive in all relevant areas and bring an asymmetrical, rare advantage Trinity’s student body. Good luck.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RPS View Post
    My daughter's story is an interesting one, I think. She graduated from HS in 2004 and had wanted to go to Duke for her entire life (my influence, I think). We live in CA so the geography was decent. She had lots of APs, a GPA over 4.0, two varsity sports and excellent extracurriculars/leadership at a large (3,500 students) competitive HS, and a 1500 SAT (old format). She was deferred early decision and ultimately rejected. Because I'm an alum, I received a call from Admissions and was told that she was rejected because the Committee didn't think she'd "fit in" at Duke (whatever that means). She ended up going to Wake (my better half's alma mater), had a terrific experience and is now a parent's dream -- honors grad in 3.5 years, off the payroll and earning a paycheck doing consulting in DC.

    My point here is that students -- especially talented ones -- tend to think that there is just one school "for them" when there are at least several (and probably more) at which they can be happy and succeed. It's great that "Mickey" is excited about Duke and is looking to do everything possible to get it, but it's nothing like the end of the world if it doesn't happen. There's a fair amount of "dumb luck" involved in the process.
    Excellent story, happy ending, and based on all evidence I've seen, completely right. While no one would say that a given college has no effect on a student's outcomes, for far too long, applicants have mistakenly felt that there was just one right school for them, and that all their plans and hopes would be dashed if they didn't get in. It is remarkable, and interesting, this recent research about the outcomes for kids who passed on elite colleges and went in-state instead (perhaps b/c of debt/work-study/scholarships etc).

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
    Keep that in mind, especially with pictures, because when you put something on the internet it stays out there, forever.
    How frequently should we change our IDs and give up the vaunted status of "all-ACC" etc.?

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    I don't get your point, and you really missed mine. Sorry.

  13. #33
    Sorry jarhead, I meant to quote bluebutton. I did get your point - insofar as it is captured by that which I mistakenly quoted.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    Excellent story, happy ending, and based on all evidence I've seen, completely right. While no one would say that a given college has no effect on a student's outcomes, for far too long, applicants have mistakenly felt that there was just one right school for them, and that all their plans and hopes would be dashed if they didn't get in. It is remarkable, and interesting, this recent research about the outcomes for kids who passed on elite colleges and went in-state instead (perhaps b/c of debt/work-study/scholarships etc).
    The Journal has an excellent story illustrating the point here.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    Sorry jarhead, I meant to quote bluebutton. I did get your point - insofar as it is captured by that which I mistakenly quoted.
    Okay.

  16. #36

    Oh Well

    I used to watch games of TV with my three kids and think at least one of them would probably go to Duke and it really does not look that way makes it a little bitter sweet seeing the Cameron Crazies. Can blame Thomas Wolfe and the Charlotte Simmons novel in part for a very unflattering view of Duke.

    My son will probably be accepted next week to Duke but doubt he is going. Anyway advice.
    1) Take the numbers with a grain of salt. If you add in the legacies, the athletes, the minority admits, the development office and the NC admits it is a large part of the Duke class thus if none of the above apply you need to be better than the mean.
    2) Your board scores are enough to raise the 25/75 with respect to US News and World Report so would not sweat it.
    3) You need to think long and hard about who you get recommendations from and ones that say " a very bright hardworking student" are pretty worthless. What they want to hear is "one of the best if not the best student in my twenty years teaching". This is difficult but some teachers are not good at writing recommendations and some are so it is not so simple as just picking out the teacher who likes you the most.
    4) Essays do matter, spend some time and thought on yours and have someone who knows what they are doing critique it.
    5) US News again...one of the things that they count is matriculation rate so let the admissions people know it is your first choice.
    6) Consider a "gap year" not just for admission to Duke I think it is a great idea for anyone. My one son is taking a gap year learning Mandarin in Beijing and this makes his application look quite different (got in ED at Yale and no one from his high school gets into Ivies so Yale admissions must have liked it)

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by tecumseh View Post
    Can blame Thomas Wolfe and the Charlotte Simmons novel in part for a very unflattering view of Duke.

    My son will probably be accepted next week to Duke but doubt he is going. Anyway advice.
    You or your son have an unflattering view of Duke because of a book Thomas Wolfe wrote about a fictional university called Dupont? Yes, I realize people have claimed it is modeled off of Duke and his daughter went to Duke, but he also conducted research at Stanford among other place, so by that logic you'd have to scrap Stanford from the list. At any university, there is going to be that type of culture among a small subset of the population. Duke has a wide array of diverse individuals so it really shouldn't be a concern. I went to Duke just a few years ago, and never experienced anything like what was described in that book (although probably there are some who have).

    I realize it's possible for people to have an unflattering view of Duke, and that's fine; college should be a lot about fit. But if the reason is because of that novel, then frankly, I find that somewhat pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecumseh View Post
    6) Consider a "gap year" not just for admission to Duke I think it is a great idea for anyone. My one son is taking a gap year learning Mandarin in Beijing and this makes his application look quite different (got in ED at Yale and no one from his high school gets into Ivies so Yale admissions must have liked it)
    While a gap year can be beneficial for certain individuals, the vast majority of people are better served by NOT taking a gap year, especially if you're just going to sit around at home (which is what most people would do). Obviously it sounds like your son took advantage of it so it seems that it was best for him, but if you're ready for college, don't take a gap year simply to make your application look better. There are also financial considerations involved in such a decision.

    Also, Yale doesn't even have ED. (I realize they have SCEA, though.)

    Not to pick on your post as I agree with the majority of it; just those two parts bothered me a bit to be honest...But everybody it entitled to his or her own opinion of course!

  18. #38

    excuse me

    OK my son got in SCEA or whatever not everyone is interested with the lingo. Hey easy with that pathetic view people form opinions about universities for a lot of reasons, basketball teams, view from the library, and what moves a 16 year old mind...well I can tell you don't have a lot of daughters.

    I think a gap year is a great idea for anyone in an of itself, BTW this point of view is shared by a fellow who was Princeton's director of admission for a generation or two. What he felt and I have witnessed is kids are more mature after taking a year and no one talking about sitting at home smoking weed for a year.

  19. #39

    Gaps

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post

    While a gap year can be beneficial for certain individuals, the vast majority of people are better served by NOT taking a gap year,
    Gap years are the norm in the UK. Like I said MOST of people in higher education are in favor of it. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24260521/
    especially if you are using it to acquire foreign language skills.

    Like I referenced it is not just about getting into your dream college, though it can give you a second bite at the apple, it is about personal growth and development. Bluedawg sorry but you could not be more wrong gap years are great ideas for motivated people. If all of the Duke incoming class did gap years it would be a much better university IMHO.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/wo...10175351.html

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by tecumseh View Post
    Gap years are the norm in the UK. Like I said MOST of people in higher education are in favor of it. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24260521/
    especially if you are using it to acquire foreign language skills.

    Like I referenced it is not just about getting into your dream college, though it can give you a second bite at the apple, it is about personal growth and development. Bluedawg sorry but you could not be more wrong gap years are great ideas for motivated people. If all of the Duke incoming class did gap years it would be a much better university IMHO.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/wo...10175351.html
    I'm not saying gap years are bad for motivated people at all, and I certainly realize it can be an incredibly enriching experience. I just meant to suggest taking a gap year for the sake of hoping to improve one's chances of being admitted to an elite school is a bad idea. And that is what the OP inquired about. Now if you want to take a year off to really be involved in a passion of yours and grow as an individual, I certainly see that as a positive. But to use it as an admissions strategy is frankly not wise. I also think most people squander the opportunity and end up not doing anything that productive or impactful; and starting college would probably be a wiser decision. We hear about the great experiences, but the ones where people end up doing nothing or simply repeating high school coursework (which is the majority) obviously aren't talking about their experience. That's all. I think we're more in agreement than you think and for motivated individuals who have an idea of what they want to do, a gap year certainly can be extremely beneficial for their own personal enrichment and as a personal growing experience; it should NOT be used simply as a way to gain admission, IMO.

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