Survivor 41

[acdevil]

As much hype as Jeff has given the "new" Survivor, it's been somewhat boring and the ones voted off the island have been fairly predictable. Much has been made about all the risks/advantages, but we haven't seen many played, and those have not been played correctly for the most part.

Shan's been dominating the minutes shown, but I don't think she's getting a winner's edit. Looks like she's heading for a great fall and blind-side, as she's pee-d off just about everybody with her "do what I say" attitude.

Xander, on the other hand, is definitely getting a winner's edit, or at least a "he deserves to win" edit. He's made bold moves, and risky but correct decisions.

How many of you knew there was a Heather out there until the last few minutes of the last episode?

Agree with all of this.

A few more thoughts:

How did Xander not find that advantage while he was sitting out?

When the four members sat out to get rice for everyone, I don’t know how they didn’t make a deal amongst at least themselves that no o e would vote for each other this week since they sacrificed.

Immunity challenge was pathetic. Maybe they should institute a minimum or no one gets it. Sheesh.

[JasonEvans]

How did Xander not find that advantage while he was sitting out?

Did you see where Jeff hid it? The only way to see it would be to get down on your hands and knees and look underneath the bench for it. The way he placed it, you could not find it unless you were really obviously looking for it, which folks don't want to do because it marks you. They showed Xander giving a cursory look around but as soon as Jeff placed it I sorta knew no one would find it.

[JasonEvans]

I liked this latest episode and the twist of dividing into two new tribes for the challenge and vote out. It is a way of potentially shaking things up a bit post-merge. Sadly, the division ended up putting the dominant alliance in a strong position on both new tribes.

And I wasn't all that surprised by the move to take out Nasser. He is a likeable player who could cause problems down the line with his idol. I'm a little surprised he did not see it coming. Was he really that convinced they were going to take out a non-threat like Heather? What I really do not get is why Shan used her extra vote to create a tie. Huh? If she and Ricard wanted Nasser out, why did she cast an extra vote for Heather? I just don't get it. Seems like a big waste of an extra vote when they could have taken out Naseer anyway by just using her regular vote. Did they suspect that Heather and Erika were trying to pull a fast one? Even if they were, how does using the extra vote help Ricard/Shan in that case? I feel like they just threw away Shan's extra vote.

Oh, and as an aside, why why why why why do players share that they have idols and advantages?!?! It only marks you as a more dangerous player. I get it if you are down in the numbers (like Xander) and want to hold the threat of an idol over the dominant alliance as a ay of making them split their votes or target someone else because they assume you will use your idol, but no one who is in a position of strength should ever reveal that they have an idol or advantage. So foolish!

Lastly, there was a zero percent chance Xander would use his idol to protect Evie and take out one of the dominant alliance. Doing so might have been good for that one episode, but it would put Xander in much more peril moving forward. The reality for him at this point is that as soon as he loses a challenge, he's highly likely to be taken out. He needs an idol as protection as soon as he does lose a challenge. Giving that idol up means giving up his only wiggle room in the game. Not gonna happen.

One of these days we are going to get an episode where Xander loses and does not have his idol any more. The editors will show us everyone scrambling and talking about voting out anyone but Xander... and then when they get to tribal we will see Xander get every vote. Mark my words, no one wants to go with him to the end.

[acdevil]

I liked this latest episode and the twist of dividing into two new tribes for the challenge and vote out. It is a way of potentially shaking things up a bit post-merge. Sadly, the division ended up putting the dominant alliance in a strong position on both new tribes.

And I wasn't all that surprised by the move to take out Nasser. He is a likeable player who could cause problems down the line with his idol. I'm a little surprised he did not see it coming. Was he really that convinced they were going to take out a non-threat like Heather? What I really do not get is why Shan used her extra vote to create a tie. Huh? If she and Ricard wanted Nasser out, why did she cast an extra vote for Heather? I just don't get it. Seems like a big waste of an extra vote when they could have taken out Naseer anyway by just using her regular vote. Did they suspect that Heather and Erika were trying to pull a fast one? Even if they were, how does using the extra vote help Ricard/Shan in that case? I feel like they just threw away Shan's extra vote.

Oh, and as an aside, why why why why why do players share that they have idols and advantages?!?! It only marks you as a more dangerous player. I get it if you are down in the numbers (like Xander) and want to hold the threat of an idol over the dominant alliance as a ay of making them split their votes or target someone else because they assume you will use your idol, but no one who is in a position of strength should ever reveal that they have an idol or advantage. So foolish!

Lastly, there was a zero percent chance Xander would use his idol to protect Evie and take out one of the dominant alliance. Doing so might have been good for that one episode, but it would put Xander in much more peril moving forward. The reality for him at this point is that as soon as he loses a challenge, he's highly likely to be taken out. He needs an idol as protection as soon as he does lose a challenge. Giving that idol up means giving up his only wiggle room in the game. Not gonna happen.

One of these days we are going to get an episode where Xander loses and does not have his idol any more. The editors will show us everyone scrambling and talking about voting out anyone but Xander... and then when they get to tribal we will see Xander get every vote. Mark my words, no one wants to go with him to the end.

Just watched it and agree 100%. There is no good explanation for why using the extra vote was a good plan. It was incredibly dumb.

Shan is very overrated in my mind. She played well at the beginning but is wearing on people now. Hopefully the rest turn on her soon.

I can’t stand Liana. I get that she doesn’t like Xander because he made a fool of her, but feet over it. She comes across as petty and is really just Shan’s lapdog at this point.

[DU82]

Just watched it and agree 100%. There is no good explanation for why using the extra vote was a good plan. It was incredibly dumb.

Shan is very overrated in my mind. She played well at the beginning but is wearing on people now. Hopefully the rest turn on her soon.

I can’t stand Liana. I get that she doesn’t like Xander because he made a fool of her, but feet over it. She comes across as petty and is really just Shan’s lapdog at this point.

I assume that Shan used the extra vote so that she could say SHE decided who left the island (well, moved to the jury.). Still a stupid move IMO.

[acdevil]

Finally watched last weeks episode. Can’t believe they were finally smart enough to get rid of Shan. Good work by Ricard. I haven’t liked him so far, but that love earned him some points in my book.

[JasonEvans]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciated the lengthy discussion about race in America and how it impacts folks on the show, but that was one quite unconventional episode of Survivor as a result.

What we need to talk about is the "game of chance" that Deshawn was forced to play for his life at tribal council. I had hoped there would be some skill to it, some way that a player could earn their survival in the game, but nope... it was just pick one of these three boxes. "! 33% chance!" I screamed. "So unfair!" But then it was the Monty Hall Problem, meaning Deshawn actually had a 67% chance of getting it right. All he has to do is flip over to the box that he did not pick once Jeff has eliminated one of the boxes and he has a 2-1 shot of survivng.

Of course, Deshawn is too stupid to understand this. He sticks with his original box and gets super lucky. I wish fate had taught him a lesson, but luck is a factor too.

I think all of us at home feel like Xander is unbeatable if he gets to the end, but I suspect he is not all that popular with the other players. Ricard is the one who would win over the jury in a big way. And I think that if Erika gets there, she's going to have a pretty compelling story too. In fact, I would make her the favorite right now, mostly because I think they all suspect that they need to take out Ricard.

[acdevil]

I loved that they pulled out the Monty Hall problem. I’m annoyed that Deshawn played incorrectly, but lucked out. I’m guessing he doesn’t know the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem.

The one potential wrinkle is that I’m not sure we know if Jeff knew what box had the fire. If he did, deshawn chose poorly, but still won.

[JasonEvans]

I loved that they pulled out the Monty Hall problem. I’m annoyed that Deshawn played incorrectly, but lucked out. I’m guessing he doesn’t know the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem.

The one potential wrinkle is that I’m not sure we know if Jeff knew what box had the fire. If he did, deshawn chose poorly, but still won.

I am certain that Jeff knew. Had he opened random basket and it been the fire then it saps the episode of all the drama. Plus, I am betting they intentionally constructed a Monty Hall problem so the "game of chance" wasn't a 50-50 shot, but was a 67-33 shot if you knew how to puzzle it out. Survivor wanted a game of chance but wanted to give a smart player a better chance. That completely fits the profile of the show.

Of course it worked out that the 33% chance came home to roost while the 67% side would have been the loser. If I had been eliminated that way, I would have been so angry!

[acdevil]

And why did Xander play an extra vote? Completely useless! If they were up 4-3, doesn’t matter. If they were down 3-4, it’s a tie and they need to revote (without the extra vote I assume) and they lose anyway. The players this season have been absolutely atrocious in utilizing the advantages.

And I agree that Jeff knew where the fire was.

[acdevil]

I guess not many are watching this “most dangerous” season of Survivor ever.

I finally watched the finale after the Duke game last night. The fact that I watched it a day late should have been my first clue that I wasn’t invested in it.

This season has easily been one of the worst of the 41. In no particular order:

1. A few episodes in, I did not like a vast majority of the cast. Not sure if it was the edit (more on that later) or the people themselves, but I found most of them to be unlikeable, annoying or invisible for most of the show.

2. The season had some of the dumbest uses of advantages ever. Those extra votes were used in situations where it didn’t matter at all and couldn’t have mattered. Yet, there was no recognition by the players of what had happened or reflection on how they were misplayed.

3. While I could tell Erika was going to win during the jury section, I don’t get it. Not impressed by her game, but I’m also not sure if that was the edit she received. Until she got sent to exile, she barely got any screen time and I hardly knew she was there - part of that was because she was on Luvu and kept winning, but still. She talked at how important her alliance with Heather was, but again got no screen time for it until the truth bomb.

4. The advantages/twists (especially in hindsight) were either duds or too powerful. Erika benefitted multiple times from them but not through any shrewd maneuvering or gameplay. She was sent to exile (out of her control) and decided to “flip the game”. There wasn’t any other decision to make - that was the only way for her to get immunity and she looked like she was going ti be voted out without it. Then there was the final advantage - first, she solved the puzzle last and seemed to luck into finding the advantage (did she or was it the edit). Then the advantage said (can’t remember the wording) that it was small but would hopefully help. Small? 4 out of 7 rungs of each ladder? She easily would have lost the challenge without it.

5. Xander - he seemed to be getting a winners edit, but after reflecting on it, the viewer saw a side of him that the players obviously didn’t. I was rooting for him at the end and thought he played a good (not great game). I was annoyed at the jury for this a bit. Ricard made such a big deal about how he and Shan were so close but knew that one of them had to stab the other in the back and that it was okay. And yet, when Xander did it to him, he was petulant and unforgiving. Major sour grapes. I’ve read some interviews with the players and it turns out that many saw him as the goat who was pulled along. Did I miss something watching the whole season? I saw a guy who’s head was on the chopping block and made some shrewd moves to avoid it sometimes and lucked into it other times. I really feel like I was watching a totally different game than the players were experiencing. Some also didn’t believe his concern/caring for others was genuine which I also felt was wrong. Really thought he deserved to win. Not surprised he didn’t, but surprised that he didn’t get a vote at all.

Like I said, overall a dud. My wife and I both remarked that it’s surprising how much we like and look forward to the show when we both feel like the wrong person won a majority of the time (not always the same one though).

Didn’t watch the after show yet, but I’m sure that’s going to be a dud. It’s not an hour and the contestants don’t have the benefit of having watched the show to see what they missed while playing.

[wavedukefan70s]

I watched some this season wasnt dedicated. How
Xander didn't never mind .i hope they can get back to old school survivor .

[Tooold]

I guess not many are watching this “most dangerous” season of Survivor ever.



3. While I could tell Erika was going to win during the jury section, I don’t get it. Not impressed by her game, but I’m also not sure if that was the edit she received. Until she got sent to exile, she barely got any screen time and I hardly knew she was there - part of that was because she was on Luvu and kept winning, but still. She talked at how important her alliance with Heather was, but again got no screen time for it until the truth bomb.

Xander—Really thought he deserved to win. Not surprised he didn’t, but surprised that he didn’t get a vote at all.

I agree. Erica claimed that her strategy was to be the one who was under-appreciated and not taken seriously as a game threat…to let everyone think others were making the decisions (when she actually was). First, I don’t think she actually was controlling the votes. The fact that she was “on the right side of all the votes” only means that she went along with the majority’s decision. And second, in the past, allowing others to appear to make the decisions would be the easiest way to get zero votes.

Somehow I think that the jury just did not want Xander to win, maybe for a reason we couldn’t see. Maybe because of his age? But to me, he is the one in the final three who had to earn his spot and who actually had a game strategy.

[JasonEvans]

Somehow I think that the jury just did not want Xander to win, maybe for a reason we couldn’t see. Maybe because of his age? But to me, he is the one in the final three who had to earn his spot and who actually had a game strategy.

I hope folks don't think ill of me for saying this, but... of the final 14 players in the game, there was exactly 1 white, cis, male on the show and he was really young and successful already (he attends Univ. of Chicago and has his own app development company). I think it was going to take a huge effort for him to win. I'm not saying the minority and non-straight folks on the show were biased against Xander, but many of us naturally connect with people who are more similar to us. Xander had very little in common with everyone else on that show.

It was telling that no one seemed very concerned about Xander making it to the end. I think they all knew he had not made solid friendships on the jury (and Liana really hated him and was probably whispering in the ears of other jurors about him the whole time). As I said in this thread a couple weeks ago:

I think all of us at home feel like Xander is unbeatable if he gets to the end, but I suspect he is not all that popular with the other players. Ricard is the one who would win over the jury in a big way. And I think that if Erika gets there, she's going to have a pretty compelling story too. In fact, I would make her the favorite right now.

I think Xander's best strategy at the end would have been to chose himself to make fire against Erica. Beating her like that, putting his own life on the line like that, would have helped to really sway the jury. He could have ever prefaced it by saying he felt neither Heather nor Deshawn had played a game deserving of victory so he wanted to put himself up against the only other worthy player in Erica. Erica was lousy at making fire and I think he would have beaten her. I suspect the jury would have really respected him for winning the challenge then choosing to himself on the line like that. Big moves... that is how you win Survivor.

[acdevil]

I hope folks don't think ill of me for saying this, but... of the final 14 players in the game, there was exactly 1 white, cis, male on the show and he was really young and successful already (he attends Univ. of Chicago and has his own app development company). I think it was going to take a huge effort for him to win. I'm not saying the minority and non-straight folks on the show were biased against Xander, but many of us naturally connect with people who are more similar to us. Xander had very little in common with everyone else on that show.

It was telling that no one seemed very concerned about Xander making it to the end. I think they all knew he had not made solid friendships on the jury (and Liana really hated him and was probably whispering in the ears of other jurors about him the whole time). As I said in this thread a couple weeks ago:



I think Xander's best strategy at the end would have been to chose himself to make fire against Erica. Beating her like that, putting his own life on the line like that, would have helped to really sway the jury. He could have ever prefaced it by saying he felt neither Heather nor Deshawn had played a game deserving of victory so he wanted to put himself up against the only other worthy player in Erica. Erica was lousy at making fire and I think he would have beaten her. I suspect the jury would have really respected him for winning the challenge then choosing to himself on the line like that. Big moves... that is how you win Survivor.

Pretty much agree with this 100%.

My big issue is that there were very few indications that Xander was so hated/disrespected by the others. It reeks of a false narrative from the editing. There’s no way that everyone felt he was a goat, but didn’t mention it in the confessionals.

[Tooold]

I hope folks don't think ill of me for saying this, but... of the final 14 players in the game, there was exactly 1 white, cis, male on the show and he was really young and successful already (he attends Univ. of Chicago and has his own app development company). I think it was going to take a huge effort for him to win. I'm not saying the minority and non-straight folks on the show were biased against Xander, but many of us naturally connect with people who are more similar to us. Xander had very little in common with everyone else on that show.


I think Xander's best strategy at the end would have been to chose himself to make fire against Erica. Beating her like that, putting his own life on the line like that, would have helped to really sway the jury. He could have ever prefaced it by saying he felt neither Heather nor Deshawn had played a game deserving of victory so he wanted to put himself up against the only other worthy player in Erica. Erica was lousy at making fire and I think he would have beaten her. I suspect the jury would have really respected him for winning the challenge then choosing to himself on the line like that. Big moves... that is how you win Survivor.

I agree. First, I think that this season was all about diversity. And while the focus on diversity shouldn’t have prevented Xander from winning, the other contestants really did identify with and embrace the diversity theme, so Xander was at a disadvantage in that respect.

I would also agree that Xander needed a gutsy move in order to win. He seemed to consider that, but backed down at the last minute. Giving away immunity and putting yourself in the “build fire” challenge has worked before, and it would have enabled him to eliminate the person who, in hindsight, was the fore-runner. He could also have pitted Erica against either Heather or Richard, and it seems she would have lost (again, in hindsight).

[DU82]

I hope folks don't think ill of me for saying this, but... of the final 14 players in the game, there was exactly 1 white, cis, male on the show and he was really young and successful already (he attends Univ. of Chicago and has his own app development company). I think it was going to take a huge effort for him to win. I'm not saying the minority and non-straight folks on the show were biased against Xander, but many of us naturally connect with people who are more similar to us. Xander had very little in common with everyone else on that show.

Post-final interviews indicate that the jury thought Xander was insincere about his friendships and connections with the players. Some of that was his age. It was only after the season ended that they realized that he really was a nice, caring guy, and perhaps would have changed their vote.

Erika also killed it during the final tribal council with her answers, from what was shown far better than the other two.

It would have been interesting if Jeff had asked the jury what if it was Heather instead of Erika in the final three.

Specific to your point, how many young, Asian business women were on the jury? I don't think the makeup of the jury made a difference. If so, Deshawn would have received more than the one vote from his game-long buddy, Danny. For the most part, the jury did vote for who they thought played the best (different from some past, bitter, juries.)

[wavedukefan70s]

Post-final interviews indicate that the jury thought Xander was insincere about his friendships and connections with the players. Some of that was his age. It was only after the season ended that they realized that he really was a nice, caring guy, and perhaps would have changed their vote.

Erika also killed it during the final tribal council with her answers, from what was shown far better than the other two.

It would have been interesting if Jeff had asked the jury what if it was Heather instead of Erika in the final three.

Specific to your point, how many young, Asian business women were on the jury? I don't think the makeup of the jury made a difference. If so, Deshawn would have received more than the one vote from his game-long buddy, Danny. For the most part, the jury did vote for who they thought played the best (different from some past, bitter, juries.)

Russell Hantz is what comes to mind everytime someone mentions bitter jury.
Very entertaining individual.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Russell Hantz is what comes to mind everytime someone mentions bitter jury.
Very entertaining individual.

The trick of Survivor will always be balancing gameplay with relationships. Russell is in the conversation for best all time at gameplay, but of all the people you can reasonably put in that conversation, he is unquestionably the worst at building relationships. You cannot rub people's noses in it, make them hate you, and expect to get their votes. I don't even consider that a bitter jury. It's just a case of being really, really bad at a crucial element of the game.

Tony was able to do all the gameplay things that Russell did without making people hate them, and that's why he's considered by many to be the GOAT.

I thought this past season was OK. Erica was not a great winner, but I did enjoy the diverse cast. I am also annoyed at how they continue to introduce way too much randomness into the show with all these advantages and twists. I feel like the people who are still watching in Season 41 are largely fans of the game at its most fundamental level, and enjoy watching good gameplay, and watching good gameplay get rewarded. But with recent seasons you really have to wade through a lot of this surface-level nonsense to get to the heart of the show. I still enjoy it, but I wish they would dial it back a good 50%.

[wavedukefan70s]

The trick of Survivor will always be balancing gameplay with relationships. Russell is in the conversation for best all time at gameplay, but of all the people you can reasonably put in that conversation, he is unquestionably the worst at building relationships. You cannot rub people's noses in it, make them hate you, and expect to get their votes. I don't even consider that a bitter jury. It's just a case of being really, really bad at a crucial element of the game.

Tony was able to do all the gameplay things that Russell did without making people hate them, and that's why he's considered by many to be the GOAT.

I thought this past season was OK. Erica was not a great winner, but I did enjoy the diverse cast. I am also annoyed at how they continue to introduce way too much randomness into the show with all these advantages and twists. I feel like the people who are still watching in Season 41 are largely fans of the game at its most fundamental level, and enjoy watching good gameplay, and watching good gameplay get rewarded. But with recent seasons you really have to wade through a lot of this surface-level nonsense to get to the heart of the show. I still enjoy it, but I wish they would dial it back a good 50%.

Very true .it was deserved .but survivor seems better to me with a Russell or tony and his hide outs .

Unpredictable gameplay .a lot of the contestants seem to be worried about
Not taking chances .