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  1. #821
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I moved. Now 12 miles from Heaven, 13 from Hell
    Commenting on your list, DuDog84, and adding a few more (outside the then recent FF)

    No way Stringer would have left Rutgers. She went there specifically for family reasons. And, we would have had to deal with other things (research two Rutgers men coaches ago for an idea. And people think Coach P’s practices were hard.)

    Tara VanDeveer was rumored to be interested, but those in power likely didn’t think it would be a good fit. I think she would have been great, and maybe we would have gotten Brooke Smith back.

    Katie Meier had just moved from UNCC to Miami ( similar to Doyle) and in my view would have been an excellent selection.

    Boyle was looked at as the best candidate to continue what Coach G had started. You are looking at her record in hindsight, in my view, rather than the consideration of what was going on at the time.

    I think the order of candidates was Boyle, Meier, andthen likely at least one that I am forgetting. After that first wave, other candidates were looked at, and I’m pretty sure Coach P lobbied hard for the job. But there’s no way she was the obvious candidate at the time.

    Should the team not rebound next year, and things are still pointing downwards, I would expect that Coach P would step down or be asked to step down. If that happens, I think the right move would be go after a younger coach to rebuild things, rather than try to get another relatively veteran coach.

  2. #822

    JPM did lobby for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Commenting on your list, DuDog84, and adding a few more (outside the then recent FF)

    No way Stringer would have left Rutgers. She went there specifically for family reasons. And, we would have had to deal with other things (research two Rutgers men coaches ago for an idea. And people think Coach P’s practices were hard.)

    Tara VanDeveer was rumored to be interested, but those in power likely didn’t think it would be a good fit. I think she would have been great, and maybe we would have gotten Brooke Smith back.

    Katie Meier had just moved from UNCC to Miami ( similar to Doyle) and in my view would have been an excellent selection.

    Boyle was looked at as the best candidate to continue what Coach G had started. You are looking at her record in hindsight, in my view, rather than the consideration of what was going on at the time.

    I think the order of candidates was Boyle, Meier, and then likely at least one that I am forgetting. After that first wave, other candidates were looked at, and I’m pretty sure Coach P lobbied hard for the job. But there’s no way she was the obvious candidate at the time.

    Should the team not rebound next year, and things are still pointing downwards, I would expect that Coach P would step down or be asked to step down. If that happens, I think the right move would be go after a younger coach to rebuild things, rather than try to get another relatively veteran coach.
    From my MSU faculty/admin friends (huge sports fans/supporters):

    Although JPM had signed a contract extension at MSU less than a month before her Duke hire, she did heartily pursue the Duke job. Leaving MSU allowed her and her professor husband a "fresh start." There was growing unrest in East Lansing over her husband's arrest in early March on two felony assault counts (of a police officer) at the Sarasota airport. (They believe he was accompanying JPM to an NCAA committee meeting?)

    MSU hosted the NCAA sub-regional that year (March 18, 20), and lost at home in the second round to Rutgers. After McCallie signed the new contract four days later, the athletic department and university began fending off increasing inquiries/outrage over their handling of the airport incident.

    Along comes Alleva and MSU's problem is "solved." However, by September 2007, the MSU AD (Ron Mason -- former longtime MSU hockey coach) announced he would be retiring at the end of the year and his successor (in waiting) was named.

  3. #823
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    The under-the-radar candidate quietly talked about at the time was current VT coach Kenny Brooks. He was just starting to turn JMU into a mid-major power. But he was in his late 30s at the time and did not have much national name recognition. Hiring him in 2007 would have required an AD with a different tolerance for risk and out-of-the-box thinking than the inhabitant of the job at the time.

  4. #824
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    The under-the-radar candidate quietly talked about at the time was current VT coach Kenny Brooks. He was just starting to turn JMU into a mid-major power. But he was in his late 30s at the time and did not have much national name recognition. Hiring him in 2007 would have required an AD with a different tolerance for risk and out-of-the-box thinking than the inhabitant of the job at the time.
    I miss Tom, too.

    -jk

  5. #825

    Unhappy ??

    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    I miss Tom, too.

    -jk

    I assume you're referencing TM? If so, what a fine fella and lost way too soon. Oh, what could have been.

  6. #826
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by diablesseblu View Post
    I assume you're referencing TM? If so, what a fine fella and lost way too soon. Oh, what could have been.
    I believe the reference was to former Duke AD Tom Butters, who did pick a young, under-the-radar person to coach the Duke men's basketball team.

    But yes, I also miss Tom Mickle.

  7. #827

    where is my mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I believe the reference was to former Duke AD Tom Butters, who did pick a young, under-the-radar person to coach the Duke men's basketball team.

    But yes, I also miss Tom Mickle.

    What was I thinking (or not) to have "forgotten" Tom Butters? Guess I betrayed the burr under my saddle that Alleva was ever chosen to be AD.

  8. #828
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I believe the reference was to former Duke AD Tom Butters, who did pick a young, under-the-radar person to coach the Duke men's basketball team.

    But yes, I also miss Tom Mickle.
    Sharp, as always! Yeah, it was Butters for me...

    -jk

  9. #829
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Taken. Massively. Out. Of. Context. Not lol.

    Anyone reading your post would think that Duke is the only program that does not live up to its past.
    Lol! You are the one inventing a context and then knocking down a straw man. The quote states that there were a group of top teams including Duke, and now that same group is intact—except that it no longer includes Duke. Honest!

    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    This opinion won't be popular on this board, but "Final Four" is the phoniest accomplishment in sports. Great marketing gimmick. And deep-pocketed boosters get to strut around in their university sweatshirts for another weekend. But I'm pretty sure the Steelers (or any other team in a significant sport) never had shirts made when they won their conference semi-final or otherwise were one of the last four teams. You win a championship or you don't.)
    Poppycock. Division championships, conference championships (both college conference and pro), they matter. Of course the Steelers print shirts for AFC championships, and AFC North Division championships.

    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    This year was a huge disappointment. Regardless of injuries I believe we had the talent to be better than .500.
    This year, and before, and before. Years before that were perhaps minor disappointments.

    Also, yay that we had the talent to possibly win more than we lose? Honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I don't give any money to Duke and they can do what they want, but I also don't blithely spend other people's money. That's for politicians.
    This saddens me. If you purport to care about Duke, you should consider supporting the school financially in some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I also believe Coach P is coaching for her Duke career next year.
    This quote would have made sense in 2017...

  10. #830
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    This year, and before, and before. Years before that were perhaps minor disappointments.
    We made it to the Sweet Sixteen last year, running into UCONN. That wasn't a "huge disappoinment". (Other than facing UCONN so early, that sucked.)
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #831
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Commenting on your list, DuDog84, and adding a few more (outside the then recent FF)

    No way Stringer would have left Rutgers. She went there specifically for family reasons. And, we would have had to deal with other things (research two Rutgers men coaches ago for an idea. And people think Coach P’s practices were hard.)

    Tara VanDeveer was rumored to be interested, but those in power likely didn’t think it would be a good fit. I think she would have been great, and maybe we would have gotten Brooke Smith back.

    Katie Meier had just moved from UNCC to Miami ( similar to Doyle) and in my view would have been an excellent selection.

    Boyle was looked at as the best candidate to continue what Coach G had started. You are looking at her record in hindsight, in my view, rather than the consideration of what was going on at the time.

    I think the order of candidates was Boyle, Meier, andthen likely at least one that I am forgetting. After that first wave, other candidates were looked at, and I’m pretty sure Coach P lobbied hard for the job. But there’s no way she was the obvious candidate at the time.

    Should the team not rebound next year, and things are still pointing downwards, I would expect that Coach P would step down or be asked to step down. If that happens, I think the right move would be go after a younger coach to rebuild things, rather than try to get another relatively veteran coach.
    Tara V. would have been a slam dunk, but I can't believe she would have left what she had built at Stanford. If she flirted, it was probably to get a raise.

    There is only a smidgen of hindsight. I've already detailed what Boyle's record was at the time. By 2007, Meier had been a head coach for 6 years and had 1 NCAA appearance with no wins. Either might have been a great hire. But if they didn't have a Duke connection, neither would have even been peeked at based on their records. And yes this is more hindsight, but in all those years since 2007 Meier still has not made it past the first weekend of the tournament.

    Based on record and hireability (we weren't going to get Geno, etc.), I stand by my position that Coach P was obvious at the time.

  12. #832
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    There's something really special about people that tell others what to do with their money.

  13. #833
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    There's something really special about people that tell others what to do with their money.
    Come up here to NYC. You’d appreciate our very special group of electeds.

  14. #834
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    McCallie might have been the logical choice if we assume that the options were limited to established coaches from power conferences.

    But so many of the great coaching success stories-both men and women--have come from seeking, finding and hiring up-and-coming youngsters from lesser-tier programs.

    The Duke men may be the most prominent example but I could destroy an internet forest with additional examples.

    But finding that perfect 30-something fit is a lot of work.

    I have heard nothing to suggest that Joe Alleva was inclined to go down that road.

  15. #835
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    McCallie might have been the logical choice if we assume that the options were limited to established coaches from power conferences.

    But so many of the great coaching success stories-both men and women--have come from seeking, finding and hiring up-and-coming youngsters from lesser-tier programs.

    The Duke men may be the most prominent example but I could destroy an internet forest with additional examples.

    But finding that perfect 30-something fit is a lot of work.

    I have heard nothing to suggest that Joe Alleva was inclined to go down that road.
    Exactly right. My memory from that time knowledgeable Duke women's BB fans online identified quite a few up and coming young head coaches that they were excited about - and to Jim's point, they were angry that Joe did not reach out to them.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Exactly right. My memory from that time knowledgeable Duke women's BB fans online identified quite a few up and coming young head coaches that they were excited about - and to Jim's point, they were angry that Joe did not reach out to them.
    Agree. JPM's hire was "expedient" --- for Alleva. My recollection is that around that time Joe was distracted by the prospect of his own potential job search. (This was nine months after his boating accident.)

  17. #837
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Tara V. would have been a slam dunk, but I can't believe she would have left what she had built at Stanford. If she flirted, it was probably to get a raise.

    There is only a smidgen of hindsight. I've already detailed what Boyle's record was at the time. By 2007, Meier had been a head coach for 6 years and had 1 NCAA appearance with no wins. Either might have been a great hire. But if they didn't have a Duke connection, neither would have even been peeked at based on their records. And yes this is more hindsight, but in all those years since 2007 Meier still has not made it past the first weekend of the tournament.

    Based on record and hireability (we weren't going to get Geno, etc.), I stand by my position that Coach P was obvious at the time.
    "Obvious," based on record. Not so "obvious" if one knew that she would read the stats in every post-game conferences and never mention an opposing player by name. Not a good Duke hire for a high-profile coaching position, which is what WBB coach represents.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  18. #838
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    There's something really special about people that tell others what to do with their money.
    I am happy to suggest—not tell—anyone who (1) purports to support Duke and (2) “proudly” (?) posts about not supporting Duke financially, that they should reconsider (2).

    Apologies, honestly, if your comment was not in response to anything I posted.

  19. #839
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    There's something really special about people that tell others what to do with their money.
    Concerning financial donations to Duke from alumni and members of the larger Duke family: Duke depends on outside contributions and grants by foundations and other entities, which further the Duke mission and help start new programs. These donors are aware of and impressed by the very large support of Duke by alumni and others close to the University, such as parents of students and former students. Even the big-ticket donors to Duke athletics are influenced by donations to the Iron Dukes and the tremendous interest in Duke season basketball tickets.

    Therefore, I am comfortable asking others on this Board to consider making an appropriate donation to show your support to Duke and Duke Athletics. I hope you don't feel that this is telling you "what to do with [your] money."
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    McCallie might have been the logical choice if we assume that the options were limited to established coaches from power conferences.

    But so many of the great coaching success stories-both men and women--have come from seeking, finding and hiring up-and-coming youngsters from lesser-tier programs.

    The Duke men may be the most prominent example but I could destroy an internet forest with additional examples.
    Let us not forget that the person whom McCallie replaced was an assistant coach at a then-very good Big Ten program, but had never been a head coach before, before she assumed the mantle of the Duke program.

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