How do we get people to Wallace Wade on Saturday?

[uh_no]

Given Saturday's weather, that's respectable.

i'd be surprised if the turnstile attendance was >5k, and even that might be generous. Probably closer to 3 if I had to bet on it.

[chrishoke]

Does anyone here know how many season tickets were sold this year?

[CameronBornAndBred]

i'd be surprised if the turnstile attendance was >5k, and even that might be generous. Probably closer to 3 if I had to bet on it.

That would seem lots more reasonable to me as well. The parking lots were empty, so unless everyone bused in...

[hallcity]

Given Saturday's weather, that's respectable.

I've been going to Duke football games for over 40 years and that's the coldest I've ever been. The temp wasn't that low but the wind was just awful. It's three days later and I still feel cold. I don't know how anyone made it to the end. What a dreadful afternoon and evening!

[Stray Gator]

Does anyone here know how many season tickets were sold this year?

I don't know the answer to your question, but whatever that number may be, I can tell you that it's two more than will be sold next year.

[luvdahops]

Sometimes it is much easier to fake it than make it. If you can't increase the butts, decrease the seats...strategically.

Several colleges do this now...and that's close off the end zone seating with large tarps of some kind. After some coffee, I can probably think of some, but I've seen it. This forces the same number of fans into fewer seats, creating proximity and therefore energy, and reduce the embarrassing TV angles. Also, some colleges put the student sections on the East side for TV exposure.

The Carolina Hurricanes did this in Greensboro, closing off the entire upper deck and turning it into a 10-12,000 seat arena, where 7-8000 looked respectable. That was much easier than getting 12-18000 in the building.

Of course, none of this fools anyone logically or intellectually or financially. But it does improve the atmosphere...and improved atmosphere then has its own rewards, one of which is more demand. More demand then equals more butts in the seats. It works together.

Now I realize that it seems I am alone trying to approach Wade from this angle...but the other angle isn't working, has almost never worked, and never will. You simply cannot defeat demographics. And the trend is towards more TV viewers and less butts in seats in all sports everywhere it seems...hard to buck a macro trend too. All of these ideas from everyone have merit, all can have a small impact. But there needs to be a foundational change.

Call this the "broken window" approach to Wade crowds...from broken window policing. The idea is that if things look better, and seem better, then human nature dictates that they will actually get better. If 22,000 looked and felt good on TV, instead of feeling dead and looking awful, then the program would benefit in every way. Yes, a better team would help. Yes, better concessions would help. Give a ways would help. But all that's re arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. To mix metaphors even more, to reverse the quote from Jaws..."we're gonna need a smaller boat."

Well, it's completely impractical as a redo now, but the best approach in my view would be to install wider, more comfortable (i.e. padded) seats in the non-bleacher sections (and maybe in those, too). I think the narrow, hard plastic ones we have were a colossal blunder, and a missed opportunity to both reduce capacity to a more reasonable level, and improve the general fan experience.

One other idea would be to install an enclosed restaurant / bar / club in the upper rows of the North end zone. Nothing fancy, but one for the common people, similar to Citi Field if any folks have ever been there.

[chrishoke]

I don't know the answer to your question, but whatever that number may be, I can tell you that it's two more than will be sold next year.

Sorry to hear that. Do you mind briefly sharing your reasons.

[budwom]

Well, it's completely impractical as a redo now, but the best approach in my view would be to install wider, more comfortable (i.e. padded) seats in the non-bleacher sections (and maybe in those, too). I think the narrow, hard plastic ones we have were a colossal blunder, and a missed opportunity to both reduce capacity to a more reasonable level, and improve the general fan experience.

One other idea would be to install an enclosed restaurant / bar / club in the upper rows of the North end zone. Nothing fancy, but one for the common people, similar to Citi Field if any folks have ever been there.

One of the reasons we finally migrated to the West side after several decades on the East side (besides the brutal sun) is that the seats are several inches wider...the concrete steps preclude doing much about the pitch between seats, but the extra width gives you more comfort and wiggle room.

Since we'll be having this discussion as long as there is Duke football, one remedy DOES come to mind...while you can't chew up and replace all the concrete, you could just install luxury (even reclining) seats every other row...go from 40k cramped, often empty seats to 20k Business Class style seats, beer holder, try to make it a pleasant experience...good food via private enterprise, nice beer.

[jimsumner]

There were 16,000 people in the stands until the wind blew 10,000 of them out of their seats into the parking lot.

[TruBlu]

There were 16,000 people in the stands until the wind blew 10,000 of them out of their seats into the parking lot.

Actually, what blew me out at the end of the 3rd quarter was not the wind. It was our team’s performance (or lack there of). If it was competitive, I would have stayed until the end.

Is there a chance of getting a refund of the ticket price? It was advertised as a football game. Two teams must show up to have a game. One team was absent.

[budwom]

Actually, what blew me out at the end of the 3rd quarter was not the wind. It was our team’s performance (or lack there of). If it was competitive, I would have stayed until the end.

Is there a chance of getting a refund of the ticket price? It was advertised as a football game. Two teams must show up to have a game. One team was absent.

did you get the Kevin White email questionnaire sent out after the game? Good opportunity to make this, and other points.

[throatybeard]

I left North Carolina, probably forever, in 2004. We visit a few times a year, but realistically, after my father (1939-) is gone, that's going to end. Then I'll be back every few years to see a couple people apiece in WS, Durham, Raleigh.

For a while I had this idea that if I still lived in Durham, I'd be a ssntix holder to football and WBB. The second half of that conviction evaporated after how they did Gail Goestenkors. But football, especially with Cutcliffe at the helm, I still thought, man, if only I were closer.

In talking with y'all, real football fans who are still there, I've come to realize, no, I wouldn't. I'd buy single games, likely one a year, probably Carolina in even years and some other team in odd years. To wit, I have season tickets to the Saint Louis Blues and attend three to five regular season games at best. I sell the rest. We played thirteen home games in a run to the Stanley Cup, and even of those I only made it to nine. It was more time-consuming than I could responsibly afford. And that's indoors, not in a concrete solar reflection dish in Durham in September. Football takes longer, Duke doesn't commit to the gameday experience, I don't particularly enjoy the sport any longer (I quit the NFL several years ago), and I eat too healthy to participate in tailgate. Let's be real. I'd show up once a season.

I salute those of y'all who are still doing this. I have to wonder how sustainable it is. Interest in American football is still healthy, but is post-peak in the United States.

[Steven43]

I eat too healthy to participate in tailgate.

Wait.....if you don’t eat tailgate food, what do you eat???

[Stray Gator]

Sorry to hear that. Do you mind briefly sharing your reasons.

I don't consider it appropriate to recount in detail the reasons for my dissatisfaction here -- some of the general problems have been identified by other posters in this forum, while a few of the issues arose from specific personal experiences; but I will say that the causes of my accumulated frustration extend beyond the performance of the football team on the field.

We are longtime supporters of the Duke football program, and have been season-ticket holders since Carl Franks became head coach two decades ago. Although we reside in central Florida, we have until this season made the trip up to attend at least two or three home games each fall, and have followed the team to away games at New Orleans, at South Bend, at Miami, at Tallahassee, and the last two times at Chapel Hill.

We haven't yet made a final decision not to renew our season tickets for Duke football, and it's possible that changed circumstances may lead us to reconsider before the deadline arrives next year. But I think it's unlikely that my present inclination to do so will change; and sadly, but tellingly, I don't believe it will matter much to anyone associated with the Duke football program.

[chrishoke]

I don't consider it appropriate to recount in detail the reasons for my dissatisfaction here -- some of the general problems have been identified by other posters in this forum, while a few of the issues arose from specific personal experiences; but I will say that the causes of my accumulated frustration extend beyond the performance of the football team on the field.

We are longtime supporters of the Duke football program, and have been season-ticket holders since Carl Franks became head coach two decades ago. Although we reside in central Florida, we have until this season made the trip up to attend at least two or three home games each fall, and have followed the team to away games at New Orleans, at South Bend, at Miami, at Tallahassee, and the last two times at Chapel Hill.

We haven't yet made a final decision not to renew our season tickets for Duke football, and it's possible that changed circumstances may lead us to reconsider before the deadline arrives next year. But I think it's unlikely that my present inclination to do so will change; and sadly, but tellingly, I don't believe it will matter much to anyone associated with the Duke football program.

Thanks Stray. I have always enjoyed your posts and respect your opinions.

[Steven43]

I don't believe it will matter much to anyone associated with the Duke football program.

Can this really be true?! If so, what do you think could account for this disregard and indifference toward a longtime season ticket holder (or, for that matter, ANY person interested in buying tickets to a Duke football game)? Where do you believe the problem lies, and what do you think can be done to fix it? I appreciate any thoughts you care to share on the matter, Stray. Thank you.

[jv001]

I left North Carolina, probably forever, in 2004. We visit a few times a year, but realistically, after my father (1939-) is gone, that's going to end. Then I'll be back every few years to see a couple people apiece in WS, Durham, Raleigh.

For a while I had this idea that if I still lived in Durham, I'd be a ssntix holder to football and WBB. The second half of that conviction evaporated after how they did Gail Goestenkors. But football, especially with Cutcliffe at the helm, I still thought, man, if only I were closer.

In talking with y'all, real football fans who are still there, I've come to realize, no, I wouldn't. I'd buy single games, likely one a year, probably Carolina in even years and some other team in odd years. To wit, I have season tickets to the Saint Louis Blues and attend three to five regular season games at best. I sell the rest. We played thirteen home games in a run to the Stanley Cup, and even of those I only made it to nine. It was more time-consuming than I could responsibly afford. And that's indoors, not in a concrete solar reflection dish in Durham in September. Football takes longer, Duke doesn't commit to the gameday experience, I don't particularly enjoy the sport any longer (I quit the NFL several years ago), and I eat too healthy to participate in tailgate. Let's be real. I'd show up once a season.

I salute those of y'all who are still doing this. I have to wonder how sustainable it is. Interest in American football is still healthy, but is post-peak in the United States.

Just curious, but how many St. Louis Cardinal games do you attend each year? If I remember correctly, you are a fan of the Cards as am I. GoDuke and GoRedbirds!

[OldPhiKap]

I don't consider it appropriate to recount in detail the reasons for my dissatisfaction here -- some of the general problems have been identified by other posters in this forum, while a few of the issues arose from specific personal experiences; but I will say that the causes of my accumulated frustration extend beyond the performance of the football team on the field.

We are longtime supporters of the Duke football program, and have been season-ticket holders since Carl Franks became head coach two decades ago. Although we reside in central Florida, we have until this season made the trip up to attend at least two or three home games each fall, and have followed the team to away games at New Orleans, at South Bend, at Miami, at Tallahassee, and the last two times at Chapel Hill.

We haven't yet made a final decision not to renew our season tickets for Duke football, and it's possible that changed circumstances may lead us to reconsider before the deadline arrives next year. But I think it's unlikely that my present inclination to do so will change; and sadly, but tellingly, I don't believe it will matter much to anyone associated with the Duke football program.

The fact that Stray feels this way is both disturbing and sad.

I can attest, Stray travels for games. Had the (all too brief) pleasure of meeting him in South Bend.

This state of affairs is concerning.

[uh_no]

Can this really be true?! If so, what do you think could account for this disregard and indifference toward a longtime season ticket holder (or, for that matter, ANY person interested in buying tickets to a Duke football game)? Where do you believe the problem lies, and what do you think can be done to fix it? I appreciate any thoughts you care to share on the matter, Stray. Thank you.

Because they're trying to run a 100 million dollar business like its a pasta supper fundraiser...They expect that they don't have to provide a good value and you'll just show up because of extrinsic reasons. You go to the pasta supper to help your church group raise funds to go on a mission trip. You don't go to the pasta supper so that CEO bob down the street can buy a ferrari. The church group might not provide the best quality, but they'll make it clear that they're thankful you're there through their effort.

Duke tries to play both sides of this coin. You should come because you want to support duke! even if the value isn't great! But then on the other side, they're making it clear that they don't actually care that you're there, and expend no effort to improve it since, well, TV rules everything. In the end they've lost the people that thought it was a good value, and now they're losing their good will, forcing people to look at the value. Would you keep going to a pasta supper fundraiser when you found out that they were just trying to milk cash to buy Bob a car?

The analogy isn't perfect. But if duke wants to pander to TV and treat fans as low-value entities, then the fans will treat them the same in return, and not attend games when the value proposition simply isn't there.

This is fans not showing up for pasta anymore becuase duke has made it clear the only thing they want is to buy that shiny new ACCN GT-R.

[chrishoke]

Because they're trying to run a 100 million dollar business like its a pasta supper fundraiser...They expect that they don't have to provide a good value and you'll just show up because of extrinsic reasons. You go to the pasta supper to help your church group raise funds to go on a mission trip. You don't go to the pasta supper so that CEO bob down the street can buy a ferrari. The church group might not provide the best quality, but they'll make it clear that they're thankful you're there through their effort.

Duke tries to play both sides of this coin. You should come because you want to support duke! even if the value isn't great! But then on the other side, they're making it clear that they don't actually care that you're there, and expend no effort to improve it since, well, TV rules everything. In the end they've lost the people that thought it was a good value, and now they're losing their good will, forcing people to look at the value. Would you keep going to a pasta supper fundraiser when you found out that they were just trying to milk cash to buy Bob a car?

The analogy isn't perfect. But if duke wants to pander to TV and treat fans as low-value entities, then the fans will treat them the same in return, and not attend games when the value proposition simply isn't there.

This is fans not showing up for pasta anymore becuase duke has made it clear the only thing they want is to buy that shiny new ACCN GT-R.

A small point, but they are not mutually exclusive.